The Lord's Prayer

[Carl Emerson]

Just wondering why our Anglican liturgy modified the biblical translation around being led into temptation an delivered from evil...

Comments appreciated.

 

[Paidiske]

Do you mean, the change from "lead us not into temptation," to "save us from the time of trial"?

It's a better direct translation from the Greek. The word peirasmon means something closer to trial or examination, than "temptation" as we tend to understand it in English. And the idea that God might try to lead us into temptation to sin is theologically and pastorally problematic!

 

[Carl Emerson]

Can someone explain then if we have tolerated a mistranslation, why not one of the modern translations seem to have corrected the error?

 

[seeking.IAM]

I am unclear what version you reference compared to what translation

 

[Paidiske]

Can someone explain then if we have tolerated a mistranslation, why not one of the modern translations seem to have corrected the error?

I'm not sure what you mean. The NRSV of Matthew 6:13 says: "do not bring us to the time of trial." Others have done similar.

 

[seeking.IAM]

I think a problem is many of us default to the way we learned the prayer and how we have been praying it for a few decades. Then a new translation (or a new way of thinking about things) comes along, and what we hear sounds unnatural to us and is not the comforting language we prefer. Those of us who are older may say that about lots of changes we hear in church now, such as language striving for gender neutrality. There are a few places where a curmudgeon like me is just going to resist change.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
your kingdom come,
your will be done,
on earth as in heaven.
Give us today our daily bread.
Forgive us our sins
as we forgive those who sin against us.
Save us from the time of trial
and deliver us from evil.
For the kingdom, the power, and the glory are yours
now and for ever. Amen.

In this long list of translations, vey few agree with the liturgy.​

New International Version And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.’ New Living Translation And don’t let us yield to temptation, but rescue us from the evil one. English Standard Version And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. Berean Standard Bible And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.’ Berean Literal Bible And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.' King James Bible And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen. New King James Version And do not lead us into temptation, But deliver us from the evil one. For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen. New American Standard Bible ‘And do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from evil.’ NASB 1995 And do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from evil. For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.’ NASB 1977 ‘And do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from evil. [For Thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, forever. Amen.]’ Legacy Standard Bible And do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one. [For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.’] Amplified Bible ‘And do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from evil. [For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.]’ Christian Standard Bible And do not bring us into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one. Holman Christian Standard Bible And do not bring us into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one. For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen. American Standard Version And bring us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one. Contemporary English Version Keep us from being tempted and protect us from evil. English Revised Version And bring us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one. GOD'S WORD® Translation Don't allow us to be tempted. Instead, rescue us from the evil one. Good News Translation Do not bring us to hard testing, but keep us safe from the Evil One.' International Standard Version And never bring us into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.' Majority Standard Bible And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one. For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.? NET Bible And do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one. New Heart English Bible And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.' Webster's Bible Translation And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen. Weymouth New Testament and bring us not into temptation, but rescue us from the Evil one.' World English Bible Bring us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one. For yours is the Kingdom, the power, and the glory forever. Amen.’ Literal Translations Literal Standard Version And may You not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from the evil [one], because Yours is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory—for all ages. Amen. Berean Literal Bible And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.' Young's Literal Translation 'And mayest Thou not lead us to temptation, but deliver us from the evil, because Thine is the reign, and the power, and the glory -- to the ages. Amen. Smith's Literal Translation And thou shouldst not lead us into temptation, but deliver thou us from evil. For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, forever. Amen. Catholic Translations Douay-Rheims Bible And lead us not into temptation. But deliver us from evil. Amen. Catholic Public Domain Version And lead us not into temptation. But free us from evil. Amen. New American Bible and do not subject us to the final test, but deliver us from the evil one. New Revised Standard Version And do not bring us to the time of trial, but rescue us from the evil one. Translations from Aramaic Lamsa Bible And do not let us enter into temptation, but deliver us from error. Because thine is the kingdom and the power and the glory for ever and ever. Amen. Aramaic Bible in Plain English And lead us not to temptation but deliver us from evil, for yours is the Kingdom and the power and the glory, for the eternity of eternities.' NT Translations Anderson New Testament And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the Evil One. Godbey New Testament lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one. Haweis New Testament And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil: for thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever and ever. Amen! Mace New Testament and let us not be left under temptation, but deliver us from the evil one." Weymouth New Testament and bring us not into temptation, but rescue us from the Evil one.' Worrell New Testament And bring us not into temptation but deliver us from the evil one.' Worsley New Testament and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one: for thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory for ever. Amen."

 

[Paidiske]

So a majority of translations have stuck with a familiar (if loaded) word. Okay. Shrug.

It doesn't make it any less true that it's not necessarily the best translation.

 

[Carl Emerson]

I'm not sure what you mean. The NRSV of Matthew 6:13 says: "do not bring us to the time of trial." Others have done similar.

very few...

All these disagree -

New International Version And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.’ English Standard Version And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. Berean Standard Bible And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.’ Berean Literal Bible And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.' King James Bible And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen. New King James Version And do not lead us into temptation, But deliver us from the evil one. For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen. New American Standard Bible ‘And do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from evil.’ NASB 1995 And do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from evil. For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.’ NASB 1977 ‘And do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from evil. [For Thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, forever. Amen.]’ Legacy Standard Bible And do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one. [For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.’] Amplified Bible ‘And do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from evil. [For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.]’ Christian Standard Bible And do not bring us into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one. Holman Christian Standard Bible And do not bring us into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one. For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen. American Standard Version And bring us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one. English Revised Version And bring us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one. GOD'S WORD® Translation Don't allow us to be tempted. Instead, rescue us from the evil one. International Standard Version And never bring us into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.' Majority Standard Bible And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one. For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.? NET Bible And do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one. New Heart English Bible And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.' Webster's Bible Translation And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen. Weymouth New Testament and bring us not into temptation, but rescue us from the Evil one.' World English Bible Bring us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one. For yours is the Kingdom, the power, and the glory forever. Amen.’ Literal Standard Version And may You not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from the evil [one], because Yours is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory—for all ages. Amen. Berean Literal Bible And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.' Young's Literal Translation 'And mayest Thou not lead us to temptation, but deliver us from the evil, because Thine is the reign, and the power, and the glory -- to the ages. Amen. Smith's Literal Translation And thou shouldst not lead us into temptation, but deliver thou us from evil. For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, forever. Amen. Catholic Translations Douay-Rheims Bible And lead us not into temptation. But deliver us from evil. Amen. Catholic Public Domain Version And lead us not into temptation. But free us from evil. Amen. Aramaic Bible in Plain English And lead us not to temptation but deliver us from evil, for yours is the Kingdom and the power and the glory, for the eternity of eternities.'

 

[Paidiske]

It's not that "temptation" is totally wrong. The underlying word can have that nuance. But it also has a much more general sense of (as the Bauer-
Danker lexicon puts it) "an attempt to learn the nature or character of something." Which is about much more than "temptation" as we generally understand it.

And as I said, given the problems of thinking that God might tempt us to sin, there are reasons to prefer a different translation.

 

[seeking.IAM]

It seems like there is a lot to parse out...

debts...trespasses....sins
evil...evil one
temptation...trial
lead us...save us

And, in some places here in the Episcopal Church (USA) even "Father" can be controversial (God, help us).

 

[Carl Emerson]

I am not sure why the majority translators need to cause 'Pastoral' problems.

We all know Jesus was led of God's Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by Satan.

We also know that God Himself does not tempt anybody.

We can similarly say Abraham was tempted to sacrifice his son as a test of his faithfulness, believing in the power of God to resurrect, when he said to his son "we (plural) will return..."

This does not mean we should seek to be influenced by evil - rather we should ask for a hatred of sin.

Yet He turns all things intended for evil - for good for those who love Him and are called according to his purpose.

 

[Palmfever]

Do you mean, the change from "lead us not into temptation," to "save us from the time of trial"?

It's a better direct translation from the Greek. The word peirasmon means something closer to trial or examination, than "temptation" as we tend to understand it in English. And the idea that God might try to lead us into temptation to sin is theologically and pastorally problematic!

Makes sense.
James 1:13
When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone;

 

[Paidiske]

I am not sure why the majority translators need to cause 'Pastoral' problems.

Well, it might not be your problem, and that's great.

But for some folks it is a problem. That sense that God is doing this to me, when I'm suffering and struggling, and even failing; that's a very emotionally difficult place, and can lead one to despair. So avoiding giving that impression, in one of our most-used prayers, I would say can be a good thing.

 

[RileyG]

[posting in fellowship]

Very good question!

(I also noticed that it's also that way in many Catholic prayer books that post the "contemporary" Our Father. Alas, they usually leave out the ending part (For the/thine is the kingdom, the power, and the glory are yours, now and forever). Although a (Catholic) monastery included the ending part of the Our Father when they said their communal morning and evening prayers, interesting enough).

Just my observation.

 

[RileyG]

Do you mean, the change from "lead us not into temptation," to "save us from the time of trial"?

It's a better direct translation from the Greek. The word peirasmon means something closer to trial or examination, than "temptation" as we tend to understand it in English. And the idea that God might try to lead us into temptation to sin is theologically and pastorally problematic!

Rev, how do you pray the Our Father during the Eucharist and Daily Office? Is it the updated version or older version? I actually find this quite interesting!

 

[Paidiske]

Rev, how do you pray the Our Father during the Eucharist and Daily Office? Is it the updated version or older version? I actually find this quite interesting!

I use the new translation, but I am a new enough Christian that the old translation was never my normal. By the time I started going to church, the new one was already in regular use.

The main time I use the old one is for funerals where families who are not regular churchgoers want what they remember as familiar from years ago.

 

[RileyG]

I use the new translation, but I am a new enough Christian that the old translation was never my normal. By the time I started going to church, the new one was already in regular use.

The main time I use the old one is for funerals where families who are not regular churchgoers want what they remember as familiar from years ago.

Ah, thanks for the reply!

 

[RileyG]

It seems like there is a lot to parse out...

debts...trespasses....sins
evil...evil one
temptation...trial
lead us...save us

And, in some places here in the Episcopal Church (USA) even "Father" can be controversial (God, help us).

I knew a Reformed girl in college who said her version of the Our Father had debts instead of trespasses.

Very interesting how it differs from Church to Church.

Definitely food for though

(posting in fellowship)

 

[Carl Emerson]

Well, it might not be your problem, and that's great.

But for some folks it is a problem. That sense that God is doing this to me, when I'm suffering and struggling, and even failing; that's a very emotionally difficult place, and can lead one to despair. So avoiding giving that impression, in one of our most-used prayers, I would say can be a good thing.

At the cost of ignoring main stream translation for the sake of making the Truth more palatable?

Not sure I would go there.

Sounds very noble but Jesus says the scripture cannot be broken and I guess that applies especially to what He said.