The Lord's Prayer in Aramaic

[Zacharias]

Well..... It was probably written in many languages in the early years. Back then Greek was the language that the more "educated" would speak and is the one that stuck. Now as to whether it doesn't matter what language he spoke... well.. I don't know if I agree with that. If it was dictated in Aramaic then translated to Greek there is already one step in the process before an English translation. The Aramaic version if original could be a more accurate depiction of what he actually spoke, or it could be a translation from Aramaic to Greek and back.

You show me information about Aramaic Bible.

 

[Eldest]

Thanks for the links!

 

[Zacharias]

John 1:1-22 in Greek
Now lets see it in Aramaic

 

[Zacharias]

Matthew 1:1-18
Lets see this in Aramaic

 

[HadouKen24]

Where does it say that the Original New Testament wasn't Greek.

Jesus taught in the common language, Aramaic. Important phrases of his speech are actually quoted Aramaic - "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" for instance.

Ergo, the version of the Lord's Prayer in the original Greek writings was a translation from Aramaic whether it was written down in Aramaic originally or not.

It is irrelevant to the discussion whether the gospels were originally Greek or not.

 

[Zacharias]

ARAMAIC MATTHEW

The Old Syriac Aramaic version of the Gospel of Matthew

according to two ancient manuscripts, the Curetonian, and the Sinaiticus (4th century CE).
Dr. F. C. Burkitt's translation, as published in 1904 by Cambridge University Press.


This text is based on Dr. Burkitt's edition of the Curetonian manuscript, with those parts that are missing in the Curetonian having been filled in from the Sinaiticus manuscript. This is a very literal, word-for-word translation of the Aramaic text. (See more notes after Ch. 28.)

Matthew 6:9-13
9 But thus be praying:

Our Father in heaven, thy name be hallowed.
10 Thy kingdom come. And thy wishes be done in earth as in heaven.
11 And our continual bread of the day give us.
12 And forgive us our debts, so that we also may forgive our debtors.
13 And bring us not into temptation, But deliver us from the Evil One. Because thine is the kingdom and the glory, For ever and ever, Amen

 

[HadouKen24]

Well, okay, so we have an original Aramaic manuscript...

Do you speak Aramaic? Are you qualified to comment on the correctness of any of these translations?

I have to say, the ones in the OP seem to be loose translations, but I don't know whether or not they express concepts present in the original writings.

I like their sound, though.

 

[Zacharias]

I'm just saying that Cerridwen's aramaic is FALSE. That's all I want to prove.

God Bless

 

[HadouKen24]

Y'gonna hafta do better than that!

You're going to have to either refute the idea that many or most of the words in the Aramaic Lord's Prayer have multiple meanings and connotations, or you're going to have to show that Cerridwen's versions fail to translate it with the correct meanings of the multi-meaninged Aramaic words.

 

[PaladinValer]

The Gospels were originally written in Greek, not Aramaic.

 

[The Thadman]

Hey all~

I thought this might be of some interest, not to mention, it's quite pretty. As the prayer in Aramaic can be translated into English a couple different ways, I'm posting two translations directly from Aramaic, rather than from Aramaic to Greek to Latin to English.

The First:

O cosmic Birther of all radiance and vibration!

Soften the ground of our being and carve out a space within us where your Presence can abide.

Fill us with your creativity so that we may be empowered to bear the fruit of your mission.

Let each of our actions bear fruit in accordance with our desire.

Endow us with the wisdom to produce and share what each being needs to grow and flourish.

Untie the tangled threads of destiny that bind us, as we release others from the entanglement of past mistakes.

Do not let us be seduced by that which would divert us from our true purpose, but illuminate the opportunities of the present moment.

For you are the ground and the fruitful vision, the birth, the power and the fulfillment, as all is gathered and made whole once again.

AMEN

And the second (which is a tad more poetic):


O Birther! Father-Mother of the Cosmos, you create all that moves in light.

O Thou! The Breathing Life of all, Creator of the Shimmering Sound that touches us.

Respiration of all worlds, we hear You breathing - in and out - in silence.

Source of Sound in the roar and the whisper, in the breeze and the whirlwind, we hear Your Name.

Radiant One: You shine within us, outside us - even darkness shines - when we remember.

Name of names, our small identity unravels in You. You give it back as a lesson.

Wordless Action, Silent Potency - where ears and eyes awaken, there heaven comes.

O Birther! Father-Mother of the Cosmos!

Amen

Love & Blessings, Cerridwen*

WHOA! That seems to stem from Neil-Douglas Klotz's "interpretation" of the Lord's Prayer. Do not trust a THING that guy or his following has to say. He is a mystic, NOT a scholar, and the entire legit Aramaic community thinks fringe groups that promote this sort of "translation" are spurious, having no grounds in the actual language itself to warrant such a "translation."

Peace!
-Steve-o

 

[The Thadman]

I should have really stepped into this thread earlier.

I believe that most of the NT was originally written in Aramaic, and have published my research on my website: http://www.AramaicNT.org including a study that I did with Dr. Mahlon Smith of the Jesus Seminar.

The website is to be completely redone shortly (as soon as I rewrite the XML parser and Font Engine), so check back often

Peace!
-Steve-o

 

[The Thadman]

Well, okay, so we have an original Aramaic manuscript...

Do you speak Aramaic? Are you qualified to comment on the correctness of any of these translations?

Dhilee hu. Âmar nâ lashyânâ dAramyâ.

Peace!
-Steve-o

 

[Cerridwen]

Hey Steve, I got the translations from a friend, then verified them as best I could. I didn't find anything saying that they were false, or I wouldn't have posted them. Although I don't speak Aramaic, lol, so I can't really make absolutely certain. I still think they are very beautiful & poetic versions, & don't believe that they contradict the other translation, but simply "elaborate" on it.

Love & Blessings, Cerridwen*

 

[The Thadman]

Hey Steve, I got the translations from a friend, then verified them as best I could. I didn't find anything saying that they were false, or I wouldn't have posted them. Although I don't speak Aramaic, lol, so I can't really make absolutely certain. I still think they are very beautiful & poetic versions, & don't believe that they contradict the other translation, but simply "elaborate" on it.

Love & Blessings, Cerridwen*

The problem that I and the rest of the Aramaic community has with them is over these elaborations They add a lot of context to the text that is simply not there, nor has any hint of being there, which (in the end) actually pulls it further away from its intended meaning.

Peace!
-Steve-o

 

[Cerridwen]

Hey~

I think I could understand there being a problem with them if these "elaborations" actually implied "opposite" meanings, y'know, like making it a prayer to Satan instead of God, for example, but the words don't appear to change the meaning that much to me.
Of course, I can understand one who's fluent in the language getting annoyed over screwing up or ascribing new meanings to words (like is done so much in the Bible), so I certainly see where you're coming from.

Love & Blessings, Cerridwen*

 

[peaceful soul]

Hey~

I think I could understand there being a problem with them if these "elaborations" actually implied "opposite" meanings, y'know, like making it a prayer to Satan instead of God, for example, but the words don't appear to change the meaning that much to me.
Of course, I can understand one who's fluent in the language getting annoyed over screwing up or ascribing new meanings to words (like is done so much in the Bible), so I certainly see where you're coming from.

Love & Blessings, Cerridwen*

When I read it, the change of meaning sticks out like a red thumb. It gets dangerous when doing something like that with the deciple's prayer or any other reading of scripture. Note: It is not the Lord's Prayer.

 

[HadouKen24]

WHOA! That seems to stem from Neil-Douglas Klotz's "interpretation" of the Lord's Prayer. Do not trust a THING that guy or his following has to say. He is a mystic, NOT a scholar, and the entire legit Aramaic community thinks fringe groups that promote this sort of "translation" are spurious, having no grounds in the actual language itself to warrant such a "translation."

Heh, I had a sneaking suspicion it would turn out to be something like that.

Didn't want to say anything, though, not knowing much about Aramaic...

Outside of Monty Python and the Search for the Holy Grail, anyway.

 

[e=mv^2]

Thats why I asked for the source on page 1.

 

[Zacharias]

I should have really stepped into this thread earlier.

I believe that most of the NT was originally written in Aramaic, and have published my research on my website: http://www.AramaicNT.org including a study that I did with Dr. Mahlon Smith of the Jesus Seminar.

The website is to be completely redone shortly (as soon as I rewrite the XML parser and Font Engine), so check back often

Peace!
-Steve-o

Nice website. Thanks.

G-d Bless