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Yes. No.
Again with the lowest common denominator definition. By this argument you change what marriage is apparently, to equal something else, and then add a similar (not even identical) group onto it. This just adds another weak link, but give the illusion of group equality a bit better.
You are proposing the change of a societal norm to affirm your marriage? No, that is what gays are proposing. I have no intention of doing anything to your marriage, but adding gays removes fertility from the institution, even if you have decided to do so. Excluding you would involve an invasion of reasonable privacy.I am married. I wont have kids. How am i changing a definition. You want to make a definition of marriage unattainable by gays claiming its not discriminating when that's exactly what your trying to do. In fact your definition even excludes heterosexuals like myself. Is that logical?
Its not I who is changing the definition of marriage. Its you. Your trying to destroy the sanctity of MY marriage. what say you.
You are proposing the change of a societal norm to affirm your marriage? No, that is what gays are proposing. I have no intention of doing anything to your marriage, but adding gays removes fertility from the institution, even if you have decided to do so. Excluding you would involve an invasion of reasonable privacy.
Societal norms are ever changing. Giving equal rights to gays puts everybody on equal standing.
You could, certainly, make the system even more cold blooded and reward only those who have children, and that would also be perfectly logical.
That is rediculous.
The whole point here, is that excluding gays is perfectly logical. There is no reason not to... Which is why the appeal is typically formed the other way, as in, "why would you exclude?" Most people don't buy the discrimination argument on its face value, or later on down the line, but are more susceptible to the emotional appeal.
How is denying equal rights logical? Most people are more compassionate than you seem to be.
I know a ton about this subject.
Did you pat yourself on the back yet? Do you have personal experience or did you just read a lot?
If you look at California gays were given the title married not as a result of equality, but as a result of being a protected class that was similar.
Rediculous. They were given equal rights on marriage (for a time). Protected class status isn't a bad thing btw. If you were in their position, you would be asking for protection from discrimination as well.
You are proposing the change of a societal norm to affirm your marriage? No, that is what gays are proposing. I have no intention of doing anything to your marriage, but adding gays removes fertility from the institution, even if you have decided to do so. Excluding you would involve an invasion of reasonable privacy.
and i guess we could set a child limit to marriages as well seeing how over population is a major problem which you seem happy to contribute to.You could, certainly, make the system even more cold blooded and reward only those who have children, and that would also be perfectly logical. The whole point here, is that excluding gays is perfectly logical. There is no reason not to... Which is why the appeal is typically formed the other way, as in, "why would you exclude?" Most people don't buy the discrimination argument on its face value, or later on down the line, but are more susceptible to the emotional appeal.
does this knowledge come from the sources you refuse to share?I know a ton about this subject. If you look at California gays were given the title married not as a result of equality, but as a result of being a protected class that was similar.
By keeping marriage about biological children of both partners, at lest partially, it is perfectly reasonable to exclude gays without being prejudiced whatsoever.
Obviously there is no necessity to change the definition away from this as most people would agree with this.
Making marriage merely based on emotion, makes it a senseless law or, in other words, bad jurisprudence and a waste of resources.
If instead, it is to protect children from broken homes and society from these children (an argument understandable to the current culture) it is sensible, becomes about heterosexual sex, and highlights the difference, which is children.
Commonly: Celibacy is healthy, and apparently so is married sex.
It appears that this is inconsistent with gay sex.
If you need to have a discussion about sources, I'll just say that you can find them if you look, even if you don't like the people who wrote the one you find.
People have various definition, I'm pointing out that logical definition exist that would exclude gays without being discriminatory.
The two are completely unrelated, actually.No gymnastics are required. Apparently, all I have to do is say I "you lost me." and I can assert that mental gymnastics are necessary to disagree with me.
Fair enough - how about you answer the question and refrain from posturing?But, then, I'm more genuine than that.
I understand, but disagree with lowest common denominator logic, and I understand, but disagree, with gay marriage as charitable support for gays.
Commonly: Celibacy is healthy, and apparently so is married sex. It appears that this is inconsistent with gay sex.
If you need to have a discussion about sources, I'll just say that you can find them if you look, even if you don't like the people who wrote the one you find.
Now, were we, no longer about logic, but about an emotional appeal, which goes away from the threads intent, also, I answered that in my last post.
The issue of marriage can be settled, for a Christian at least, very simply. Gen. 2:18-24 V.24b "...and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh". Adam and Eve, man and woman. easy.
It's the same evidence that gays use in actual cases like the one in California.Fated, I wonder where you get this idea that marriage benefits children? Could you provide some evidence that the children of happily married couples are better off than the children of happily cohabiting couples? What about evidence that children do better with unhappily married parents than with separated or divorced parents?
The reason these debates on thread are so heated is because those who are pro-marriage generally know actual logical arguments regarding the issue. It is then that gay marriage activists are taught to avoid reason and use either an emotional appeal or shaming to avoid any discussion of procreation.
Also, they the emotional appeal often shows that they don't have a logical argument and appeals that allows should be awarded marriage to help them with their differences.
Also, I read a recent article, wherein it is indicated that the best need to identify themselves as gay first, and then indicates that anyone who is against gay marriage therefore hates them, which, as I have indicated is not a logical conclusion, but a malignant type of rhetoric.
Finally, you can see by going through these thread the lack of respect for children and families that is taught to gay marriage activist. As if I'm abhorrent just because I'm different than? And that is were the unnatural argument comes in, when you don't respect natural mothers and fathers, and comprehend natural differences, then you aren't in reality.
In fact, many of the arguments aren't even logical. And among those that are logical they fail to see that logic has many paths, and many of them are false.
It's the same evidence that gays use in actual cases like the one in California.
Gays in places like this attempt to declare equality to be logical, but it isn't. So, when it goes to court, there is actually a bait and switch, wherein in court they seek protected status, for whatever reason, including marriages positive performance in child rearing, as reason that they 'need' marriage, even if the public can logically deny them entry.
It's easy to say 'easy' as long as the fable of Adam and Eve is accepted merely by rote, devoid of any use of reason. God appears to have been making everything up as He went along in early Genesis. Even when God seems to realize that a helper is necessary for Adam, a female (Eve) is not the first and obvious choice. God instead searches for a helper among the livestock, the birds, and the animals. Alas, none of them were found to be suitable.
Eventually it occurs to Godthat perhaps Adam might prefer a helper that is a similar species to himself. Bingo! Then comes Eve. Not a bevy of females from which Adam can choose to be his helper, mind, but just one, Eve. And, isn't that generally the way that it was in the days of yore, the authority figures choosing wives for the sons?
I find it inconceivable that anyone would actually expect a 'gay' couple to conclude that their relationship should come to a grinding halt and forthwith remain celibate after reading Genesis ...or Paul, for that matter.
Sorry. At times I realize that I'm guilty of injecting far too much sound reasoning into this issue.
By the way, it wasn't God who said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.' It was Moses, the human author.
Speaking of logic--you're doing it wrong. You are arguing from your conclusions to your premises.
Can someone translate this into natural language?
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