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Okay if your son had been raised by 2 moms instead would he be better for it or no? Same for a daughter with 2 dads. The child needs the nurturing warm fuzzy, kissy, huggy from mom, the discipline and strength from dad. I raised 1 girl 2 boys with a dad in the house. My perspective and my husbands was different for my daughter. I said she could talk on the phone to a 19 year old(she was 15 at the time). After all just talking right. My husband saw it a lot differently...he was once a boy right? He said one thing always leads to another. Needless to say he severed ties real quick where I probably wouldn't have. It takes a Mom and a Dad.
We have kids killing kids for a lot less than being teased for parentage. Are you willing to prove yourself right by bringing an innocent life into a world intentionally knowing that it probably won't be accepted because of your lifestyle. There's a lot of cruelty out there. You want a perfect world sorry but is what it is.
We have kids killing kids for a lot less than being teased for parentage. Are you willing to prove yourself right by bringing an innocent life into a world intentionally knowing that it probably won't be accepted because of your lifestyle. There's a lot of cruelty out there. You want a perfect world sorry but is what it is.
Okay if your son had been raised by 2 moms instead would he be better for it or no? Same for a daughter with 2 dads. The child needs the nurturing warm fuzzy, kissy, huggy from mom, the discipline and strength from dad. I raised 1 girl 2 boys with a dad in the house. My perspective and my husbands was different for my daughter. I said she could talk on the phone to a 19 year old(she was 15 at the time). After all just talking right. My husband saw it a lot differently...he was once a boy right? He said one thing always leads to another. Needless to say he severed ties real quick where I probably wouldn't have. It takes a Mom and a Dad.
The intentions of the situations you speak of were with both mom and dad in mind. not one without the other. Of course things happen in life we do not expect. Single mothers are always looking for someone to be a Dad to their children same thing with single Dads. I believe the child who was not raised with a mom or dad is always looking for that someone to fill the void.
I think that being raised by a loving and committed couple even if the couple is same-sex is better than being raised by the foster care system.
People making these arguments presume a lot - for example, that they have an understanding of political organization, theory, philosophy and economy as well as a vast knowledge of present social organizations and the motivations of presently existing people. Because whenever you say, "they should make a law..." that is exactly what you're saying you know.
Now ask yourself: do you? Because it wasn't insanity or demonaical possession that made Stalin, Hitler or Robespierre (for that matter Napoleon Bonaparte) possible, it was hubris and demonaical devotion to making the world a better place.
Okay if your son had been raised by 2 moms instead would he be better for it or no? Same for a daughter with 2 dads. The child needs the nurturing warm fuzzy, kissy, huggy from mom, the discipline and strength from dad. I raised 1 girl 2 boys with a dad in the house. My perspective and my husbands was different for my daughter. I said she could talk on the phone to a 19 year old(she was 15 at the time). After all just talking right. My husband saw it a lot differently...he was once a boy right? He said one thing always leads to another. Needless to say he severed ties real quick where I probably wouldn't have. It takes a Mom and a Dad.
I see where you're coming from and I don't think that is a bad thing to look for. Children being raised by two loving and committed parents is great. In fact, I will even go out on a limb (take away my liberal card!) and grant you that children being raised by two loving and committed parents where one is male and one is female is the optimal situation.
But (you saw that "but" coming, didn't you?) the optimal situation isn't always available. People can die; people can find their personal problems overcome their love for each other and their children; people can't keep up the facade that they are heterosexual when they are not.
What do we do then? Adoption is an option, but there are not enough couples willing to adopt--especially if the child is older; especially if the child has problems.
We are left with sub-optimal solutions. Some of those sub-optimal solutions are better than others. I think that being raised by a loving and committed couple even if the couple is same-sex is better than being raised by the foster care system.
Then you don't have a logical qualm against the current system.
"But some of them won't have children."
But they might, by and large they will. In a very few cases they are very unlikely to, such as with elderly people.
This is unnecessary reductionism.
Ah, well, I hope that someone who actually understands logic is listening. I pray and hope that they are, because if there is someone here who is writing me back who does, they've obscured themselves.
The logic of the actual gay marriage argument is:
Yes, but they're male and female, a you're clearly talking about MM and FF couples, they're clearly different.
This is where the disconnect from actual equality occurs. The court admits this, but because gays are defined by the court as a protected class, it was believed that marriage was necessary to help them get their statistics more similar to married people.
Now, look, you can sit and chant about my being illogical, but, at the end of the day, it was clear to court that there is certainly logic here. And it is certainly also connected to procreation.
And, if it is merely your assertion that the culture doesn't care, then there should be a popular vote, not a court decision to make the determination.
Anyway, peace out gay philosophers, maybe send me someone to talk to next time. __________________
I don't get it.
Our society does not limit marriage to only demonstrably fertile couples, nor do we create a "separate but equal" institution for them. We allow post-menopausal women to marry, for example.
This is a hypothetical so don't get offended, but what would you do if one of them came out to you?
I don't understand your question. Please clarify.
I don't understand your question. Please clarify.
I would be disapointed if my own child said they were into stealing, lying adultery etc. But if I thought stealing lying and adultery and same sex relations were ok I probably wouldn't be bothered, would you?I believe Chaz is asking what you would do or say if one of your own children "came out of the closet"? Hypothetically speaking.
What a bold assumption that fathers aren't warm and fuzzy with their kids! I hug and kiss my kids all the time. I'm a little less observant sometimes than my girlfriend, who notices discipline problems and points them out - both for my kids and hers. So in some cases the roles are reversed, meaning your first argument is invalid on a predefined gender role switch.The child needs the nurturing warm fuzzy, kissy, huggy from mom, the discipline and strength from dad. [...] I said she could talk on the phone to a 19 year old(she was 15 at the time). After all just talking right. My husband saw it a lot differently...he was once a boy right? He said one thing always leads to another.
Wow, another (possibly even more) bold assumption! There are plenty of single mothers who have no intention of finding someone to be a dad to their kids. They love their kids and focus their efforts on raising them and providing for their needs. Why do they need a dad?Single mothers are always looking for someone to be a Dad to their children same thing with single Dads.
But you're not talking about popularity, you're talking about a specific definition, which you've still failed to provide. If elderly and infertile couples can get married and still be within your definition, then it's not logical to exclude homosexuals.But they might, by and large they will. In a very few cases they are very unlikely to, such as with elderly people.
Again with this word. I suspect you're saying it because you feel it makes your argument more rational.This is unnecessary reductionism.
Ummm, what?The logic of the actual gay marriage argument is:
Yes, but they're male and female, a you're clearly talking about MM and FF couples, they're clearly different.
Show me where the courts have said that in order for marriage to be valid, the potential for offspring must be present. Please.Now, look, you can sit and chant about my being illogical, but, at the end of the day, it was clear to court that there is certainly logic here. And it is certainly also connected to procreation.
Not wanting children is malignant? Who, exactly, in this conversation is the one with a closed mind? You have your preconceived notions and are completely unwilling to budge on a stance that is, at this point, unclear and undefined. We're suggesting that all humans should be afforded the same opportunities and you're saying that it's perfectly OK to discriminate against groups of humans because...well, I don't know why??The most important thing... it seems, to point out in this discussion, is the need to get rid of ignorance and encourage more open minded thought.
What we have is a situation divided between people wanting children at the center and other philosophies, some of which are undoubtedly malignant, and others that are not, at least, intentionally so.
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