The Line Between Saving and Condemning

[KCKID]

You don't have to be psychic. Just go back to the original language the scriptures were penned in and see what word they used for that act and find the definition of that word.

And even then we have words in a book penned by men. The Bible has become an idol to many. The problem with this is that 'the words' contained in the Bible oftentimes obscure our reasoning abilities that were ALSO given to us by God.

Homosexuals are homosexuals through no conscious effort on their part. What they CHOOSE to do with that is up to them and is THEIR business. Please stop using the words from a book to further your own agenda. And, be honest ...the way YOU feel about the issue of homosexuality has nothing to do with the Bible ...correct?

I said 'be honest'. 'Fibbing' is an abomination to God.

 

[Zecryphon]

And even then we have words in a book penned by men. The Bible has become an idol to many. The problem with this is that 'the words' contained in the Bible oftentimes obscure our reasoning abilities that were ALSO given to us by God.

Homosexuals are homosexuals through no conscious effort on their part. What they CHOOSE to do with that is up to them and is THEIR business. Please stop using the words from a book to further your own agenda. And, be honest ...the way YOU feel about the issue of homosexuality has nothing to do with the Bible ...correct?

I said 'be honest'. 'Fibbing' is an abomination to God.

And even then we have words in a book penned by men.

If your standard for distrusting information is that it was written by men, then you're screwed. Because if you apply that standard consistently you can't believe anything you read is true, because it was all penned by men.

The Bible has become an idol to many. The problem with this is that 'the words' contained in the Bible oftentimes obscure our reasoning abilities that were ALSO given to us by God.

So go beyond your reason and consult the Holy Spirit in prayer and ask for spiritual clarification of the confusing text.

Homosexuals are homosexuals through no conscious effort on their part. What they CHOOSE to do with that is up to them and is THEIR business. Please stop using the words from a book to further your own agenda.

What agenda do I have? Aren't you projecting a wee bit here. I was answering a question and now I'm getting hit with unfounded accusations by you about a supposed agenda. You might want to close your robe, your paranoia is hanging out for all to see.

And, be honest ...the way YOU feel about the issue of homosexuality has nothing to do with the Bible ...correct?

You're the one making projections about me and what I believe, why don't you just go ahead and tell me what I believe.

I said 'be honest'. 'Fibbing' is an abomination to God.

What's your problem, dude? All I've done is try to help out another person in this forum who asked a question and I get with this crap? I feel sorry for you.

 

[KCKID]

If your standard for distrusting information is that it was written by men, then you're screwed. Because if you apply that standard consistently you can't believe anything you read is true, because it was all penned by men.

This is where our reasoning abilities come into play. I don't believe that the Bible is devoid of the opinions/cultural influences/etc. of those who wrote the Bible. Why would God not allow the Bible-writers to be human? Why did God not simply write the Bible Himself and do away with the human element altogether? Have you never thought of that?

So go beyond your reason and consult the Holy Spirit in prayer and ask for spiritual clarification of the confusing text.

Those of every Christian denomination have done JUST THAT and the Holy Spirit tells them something different. That's WHY we have so many different Christian denominations.

What agenda do I have?

At a guess I would say that YOU personally have an ax to grind with homosexuals and that you use the scriptures to support this prejudice. If I'm wrong about you then I apologize. However, I would say that I would be pretty accurate in this regard with most Christians who take on the anti-gay role. I see no other topic that encourages such prejudice from Christians.

Aren't you projecting a wee bit here. I was answering a question and now I'm getting hit with unfounded accusations by you about a supposed agenda. You might want to close your robe, your paranoia is hanging out for all to see.

I'm just naturally suspicious. As I say, if I'm wrong about you then I apologize.

You're the one making projections about me and what I believe, why don't you just go ahead and tell me what I believe.

I believe that you personally don't approve of homosexuality regardless of what the Bible may or may not say about it.

What's your problem, dude? All I've done is try to help out another person in this forum who asked a question and I get with this crap? I feel sorry for you.

Please don't patronize me with your pity. However, again I apologize if I have you tagged wrong. Trouble is, how would I ever know?

 

[IamRedeemed]

Your problem was that the word "homosexual" was not the original word used and is not in the Bible, that the word is supposed to be "Sodomy". I addressed that and gave you the definitions of Sodomy. Which is the SAME THING.

sod·om·y (sŏd'ə-m&#275
n. Any of various forms of sexual intercourse held to be unnatural or abnormal,
especially anal intercourse or bestiality.

sod·om·y

/ˈsɒd

ə

mi/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[sod-uh-mee]
Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun
1.anal or oral copulation with a member of the opposite sex.
2.copulation with a member of the same sex.


You now make a different argument, ignoring the fact that your argument was nullified.

My point regarding "orientation" and that there is no such thing as "sexual orientation" is that it is a disguise for the real issue and that is that we are all oriented in sin. There is no such thing as "sexual orientation". What we have is a "sinful orientation". Which before Christ we are held captive to as slaves, but through Christ we can be made free. He came to heal the broken hearted and set the captives free.

We can choose to adopt a sinful temptation within ourselves as our own, or reject it being that it is abominable unto the God we say we love and serve. We cannot serve TWO masters. We must
choose one and reject the other.

We are told to cast down vain imaginations and every high thing that exalts itself
against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought captive to the OBEDIENCE of Christ.
(2 Corinthians 10:5)

To adopt a sinful desire that is within us as an lifelong part of us, that we refuse to bring
captive to the obedience of Christ, then YES that is a sin. And we cannot serve the master
of death and the master of life at the same time. We must choose...... Life or Death.
There is no common ground between Christ and Belial, or Light and Darkness.

Really? Is this a documented fact or just your opinion? If it is your opinion then you are ignoring the testimonies of many homosexuals. In this case you are calling them a liar (an abomination to God) as well as your calling their 'homosexuality' an abomination to God. You are also implying/saying that until they recognize the lie that they have a non-existant 'homosexual orientation' and become 'heterosexually-oriented' (?) then they are lost. Am I reading you correctly?



You are (I assume) calling a homosexual that has never even had sex 'a sodomizer.' And you are doing so with an arrogant flair.

See the problem?

 

[KCKID]

Your problem was that the word "homosexual" was not the original word used and is not in the Bible, that the word is supposed to be "Sodomy". I addressed that and gave you the definitions of Sodomy. Which is the SAME THING.

sod·om·y (sŏd'ə-m&#275
n. Any of various forms of sexual intercourse held to be unnatural or abnormal,
especially anal intercourse or bestiality.

sod·om·y

/ˈsɒd

ə

mi/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[sod-uh-mee]
Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun
1.anal or oral copulation with a member of the opposite sex.
2.copulation with a member of the same sex.


You now make a different argument, ignoring the fact that your argument was nullified.

My point regarding "orientation" and that there is no such thing as "sexual orientation" is that it is a disguise for the real issue and that is that we are all oriented in sin. There is no such thing as "sexual orientation". What we have is a "sinful orientation". Which before Christ we are held captive to as slaves, but through Christ we can be made free. He came to heal the broken hearted and set the captives free.

We can choose to adopt a sinful temptation within ourselves as our own, or reject it being that it is abominable unto the God we say we love and serve. We cannot serve TWO masters. We must
choose one and reject the other.

We are told to cast down vain imaginations and every high thing that exalts itself
against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought captive to the OBEDIENCE of Christ.
(2 Corinthians 10:5)

To adopt a sinful desire that is within us as an lifelong part of us, that we refuse to bring
captive to the obedience of Christ, then YES that is a sin. And we cannot serve the master
of death and the master of life at the same time. We must choose...... Life or Death.
There is no common ground between Christ and Belial, or Light and Darkness.

Okay. Thanks for the sermonet.

 

[Zecryphon]

This is where our reasoning abilities come into play. I don't believe that the Bible is devoid of the opinions/cultural influences/etc. of those who wrote the Bible. Why would God not allow the Bible-writers to be human? Why did God not simply write the Bible Himself and do away with the human element altogether? Have you never thought of that?



Those of every Christian denomination have done JUST THAT and the Holy Spirit tells them something different. That's WHY we have so many different Christian denominations.



At a guess I would say that YOU personally have an ax to grind with homosexuals and that you use the scriptures to support this prejudice. If I'm wrong about you then I apologize. However, I would say that I would be pretty accurate in this regard with most Christians who take on the anti-gay role. I see no other topic that encourages such prejudice from Christians.



I'm just naturally suspicious. As I say, if I'm wrong about you then I apologize.



I believe that you personally don't approve of homosexuality regardless of what the Bible may or may not say about it.



Please don't patronize me with your pity. However, again I apologize if I have you tagged wrong. Trouble is, how would I ever know?

This is where our reasoning abilities come into play. I don't believe that the Bible is devoid of the opinions/cultural influences/etc. of those who wrote the Bible. Why would God not allow the Bible-writers to be human? Why did God not simply write the Bible Himself and do away with the human element altogether? Have you never thought of that?

I have thought about that and the best answer I can come up with is, that since God wanted to communicate with humans He used humans to write down His revelation to us, the way we would use a pen to write a letter. Humans were God's pen, so to speak.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zecryphon
So go beyond your reason and consult the Holy Spirit in prayer and ask for spiritual clarification of the confusing text.

Those of every Christian denomination have done JUST THAT and the Holy Spirit tells them something different. That's WHY we have so many different Christian denominations.

We have different denominations because of disagreement over secondary issues. All Christian denoms that are really Christian denoms agree upon the central tenets of the faith, Jesus is God, Jesus was born of the Virgin Mary, He was crucified to pay for our sins, etc.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Zecryphon
What agenda do I have?

At a guess I would say that YOU personally have an ax to grind with homosexuals and that you use the scriptures to support this prejudice.

What scriptures have I posted? All I did was answer a question.

If I'm wrong about you then I apologize. However, I would say that I would be pretty accurate in this regard with most Christians who take on the anti-gay role.

Then it is you who is guilty of prejudice here. You have prejudged me without knowing anything about me or my views. Saying same-sex sex is a sin is not being anti-gay. I have a gay friend. We went to high school together. He knows I'm a conservative Christian and it has not caused one problem in our friendship. So just because someone is a conservative Christian or thinks that same-sex sex is wrong does not make them anti-gay. It doesn't make them prejudiced or a gay-basher. Those are baseless accusations from people who can't handle being told that they are involved in an action God has declared sinful. Since they can't lash out at God they lash out at those who deliver the truth of God's word.

I see no other topic that encourages such prejudice from Christians.

It's not prejudice if the Christians have done the research on this topic and found out what God has had to say on it. If someone hates someone solely because of their sexual preference or skin color or religion, then yes, you're dealing with a bigot. That's typically not the case with this issue.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zecryphon
Aren't you projecting a wee bit here. I was answering a question and now I'm getting hit with unfounded accusations by you about a supposed agenda. You might want to close your robe, your paranoia is hanging out for all to see.

I'm just naturally suspicious. As I say, if I'm wrong about you then I apologize

.

Apology accepted.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Zecryphon
You're the one making projections about me and what I believe, why don't you just go ahead and tell me what I believe.

I believe that you personally don't approve of homosexuality regardless of what the Bible may or may not say about it.

I don't approve of same-sex relations. What is your definition of homosexuality? You've said that word isn't found in the Bible, so how can I be against something that isn't found in the Bible, based upon the Bible? Doesn't make sense.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zecryphon
What's your problem, dude? All I've done is try to help out another person in this forum who asked a question and I get with this crap? I feel sorry for you.

Please don't patronize me with your pity. However, again I apologize if I have you tagged wrong. Trouble is, how would I ever know

You would know if you took the time to read my posts in the WHY ARE SOME PEOPLE GAY thread, where I told FA to basically put a sock in it and treat people with compassion regardless of their sexual activities. You would know if you took the time to find out what people believe by asking questions instead of being prejudiced and assuming since someone is of a certain denomination or because someone is a conservative Christian they automatically hate gay people and are bigots.

 

[KCKID]

I have thought about that and the best answer I can come up with is that since God wanted to communicate with humans He used humans to write down His revelation to us, the way we would use a pen to write a letter. Humans were God's pen, so to speak.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zecryphon
So go beyond your reason and consult the Holy Spirit in prayer and ask for spiritual clarification of the confusing text.


We have different denominations because of disagreement over secondary issues. All Christian denoms that are really Christian denoms agree upon the central tenets of the faith, Jesus is God, Jesus was born of the Virgin Mary, He was crucified to pay for our sins, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zecryphon
What agenda do I have?


What scriptures have I posted? All I did was answer a question.

Then it is you who is guilty of prejudice here. You have prejudged me without knowing anything about me or my views. Saying same-sex sex is a sin is not being anti-gay. I have a gay friend. We went to high school together. He knows I'm a conservative Christian and it has not caused one problem in our friendship. So just because someone is a conservative Christian or thinks that same-sex sex is wrong does not make them anti-gay. It doesn't make them prejudiced or a gay-basher. Those are baseless accusations from people who can't handle being told that they are involved in an action God has declared sinful. Since they can't lash out at God they lash out at those who deliver the truth of God's word.

It's not prejudice if the Christians have done the research on this topic and found out what God has had to say on it. If someone hates someone solely because of their sexual preference or sking color or religion, then yes, you're dealing with a bigot. That's typically not the case with this issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zecryphon
Aren't you projecting a wee bit here. I was answering a question and now I'm getting hit with unfounded accusations by you about a supposed agenda. You might want to close your robe, your paranoia is hanging out for all to see.


Apology accepted.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zecryphon
You're the one making projections about me and what I believe, why don't you just go ahead and tell me what I believe.

I don't approve of same-sex relations. What is your definition of homosexuality? You've said that word isn't found in the Bible, so how can I be against something that isn't found in the Bible, based upon the Bible? Doesn't make sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zecryphon
What's your problem, dude? All I've done is try to help out another person in this forum who asked a question and I get with this crap? I feel sorry for you.


You would know if you took the time to read my posts in the WHY ARE SOME PEOPLE GAY thread, where I told FA to basically put a sock in it and treat people with compassion regardless of their sexual activities. You would know if you took the time to find out what people believe by asking questions instead of being prejudiced and assuming since someone is of a certain denomination or because someone is a conservative Christian they automatically hate gay people and are bigots.

Good comeback. You're right and I'm sorry I misjudged you. It wouldn't be the first time that I've been wrong.

Thanks for the post.