Somewhere along the line you must have got the idea that I do not believe in eternal security (OSAS). Nothing could be farther from the truth.With respect, I just think you confused being saved with maturing in your faith.
Even lost sheep are still sheep. They do not morph into goats.
OSAS = once a sheep, always a sheep. lol
Thank you. I will re-read.Somewhere along the line you must have got the idea that I do not believe in eternal security (OSAS). Nothing could be farther from the truth.
I have always believed in OSAS. All of my posts have been from that point of view. You must be reading them wrong.
It's a bit of a convoluted response. But it helps a little.OK! In a nutshell, faith is doing what God tells you to do. Even if you don't trust Him or believe (give mental consent) Him. The word believe means doing not thinking. Faith is a noun, its what God gives you, it is a commandment. If you obey that commandment means you believe. Please tell me that helps.
Marvin Knox said: ↑
"What might clarify things (and save a whole lot of time) would be if you just tell everyone in plain every day words what faith is."
It's a bit of a convoluted response. But it helps a little.
Faith is not doing what God tells you to do. It will result in doing what God tells you to do. But it is not doing what God tells you to do.
Faith is not a commandment. It will illicit a positive response to a commandment from God. But it is not a commandment.
True faith will always produce works. Everyone believes that because that's what the Word of God says.
The possession of faith is the proof that you truly believe. The works following are the proof that you have that faith.
Perhaps this may seem like straining at a gnat. But I don't think so.
Answering the following question will tell me whether I have made the distinctions above for no reason or if I am onto something a bit different concerning your particular view of salvation - as I think I may be.
Do you agree that there is a particular initial time in the process of salvation when we pass from death to life and will never again come into condemnation because we are evermore seated with Christ in glory as part of His body and sealed with His Holy Spirit forever?
This is one of the most yanked out of context and misunderstood verses in the Bible. This was written to a church, not for a "revival" meeting. This is a letter to a church. Read it again, for the first time, see who it's addressed to and see how it ends.
“To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:
These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God’s creation. 15 I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! 16 So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth. 17 You say, ‘I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. 18 I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see.
19 Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest and repent. 20 Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.
21 To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne. 22 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”
If you do not think there will be people in Heaven that have never heard of the name Jesus, then why did Paul write in Romans 2:14... For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these not having the law, are a law unto themselves: 15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the meanwhile accusing or else excusing one another?No I do not.
John 8:24
Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”
Thank you. Also this:If you do not think there will be people in Heaven that have never heard of the name Jesus, then why did Paul write in Romans 2:14... For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these not having the law, are a law unto themselves: 15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the meanwhile accusing or else excusing one another?
Well, who wrote the law on their hearts? Why did someone not just give them a Bible? Could it have been the Holy Spirit who wrote it? Rev 7:9 say's there will be people from every tribe and tongues and nation in Heaven.
There will be two Pygmies that never saw a white man let alone heard of Jesus, grinding at the mill, one will be taken and the other shall be left. Why? Because one obeyed that Law written on his heart. We all have it written on our hearts, but the ones that obey will be the ones that go to heaven. Read Romans 6:17 It's all about the heart!
If you do not think there will be people in Heaven that have never heard of the name Jesus, then why did Paul write in Romans 2:14... For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these not having the law, are a law unto themselves: 15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the meanwhile accusing or else excusing one another?
Well, who wrote the law on their hearts? Why did someone not just give them a Bible? Could it have been the Holy Spirit who wrote it? Rev 7:9 say's there will be people from every tribe and tongues and nation in Heaven.
There will be two Pygmies that never saw a white man let alone heard of Jesus, grinding at the mill, one will be taken and the other shall be left. Why? Because one obeyed that Law written on his heart. We all have it written on our hearts, but the ones that obey will be the ones that go to heaven. Read Romans 6:17 It's all about the heart!
The following link is for the benefit of others who are interested in verses that talk about the Sinner's Prayer.Wow. Well, this is telling!!
There is no verse in the Bible that tells one to pray any kind of prayer (all prayers are by sinners, naturally), or by asking Jesus for forgiveness or to save you. The Bible many times tells us to place our full trust in Jesus to save us.
Unless one trusts in the work of Christ alone for salvation, one is not saved.
Correct. Nothing here about praying, or asking Jesus for forgiveness.
To believe on His name is to place full trust and faith in Him to save you.
But you have made clear your views that one must achieve sinless perfection in order to be saved. So your entire theology is mixed up and unbiblical.
What, exactly, is the gospel message to be believed?
A lot of things.Because they simply do not want to see Him. Just as Rom 1 explains.
Their own lack of interest.
[QUTOE] Was it a college professor? Is it sin? Is it their unrighteousness?
Rick I agree with you, But there is only saved sheep and lost goats! Lol You could be a baby sheep, a tween sheep, a teenager sheep, a midlife crisis sheep (with a new Corvette) or a sheep who needs some Depends, but all is better than an old goat.With respect, I just think you confused being saved with maturing in your faith.
Even lost sheep are still sheep. They do not morph into goats.
OSAS = once a sheep, always a sheep. lol
How would my comment "make John a liar"? The verse says that no one has no sin. iow, we all have sin.Yep! And that would also make the Apostle John a liar, cause He said If we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 1 John 1:8
Your comment doesn't address my comment. I wasn't talking about sinning, but about believing and whether God is the cause of man believing.No, that is not true. On the OT people who sinned in ignorance God holds accountable, they had to offer sacrifice.
OK, how about them? I gave the reasons WHY everyone is accountable to God. He created them and placed them WHEN and WHERE He did so that they would seek Him, per Acts 17:25,26. And God has revealed Himself to everyone, per Rom 1:19,20, so that no one has any excuse for not seeking Him.And how about any worldwide who has never heard of Christ, God still holds them to account for not believing, they die in their sins.
A lot of things.Because they simply do not want to see Him. Just as Rom 1 explains.
Their own lack of interest.
[QUTOE] Was it a college professor? Is it sin? Is it their unrighteousness?
So if obeying the Law gets one to heaven, then why did Jesus Christ die for our sins?If you do not think there will be people in Heaven that have never heard of the name Jesus, then why did Paul write in Romans 2:14... For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these not having the law, are a law unto themselves: 15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the meanwhile accusing or else excusing one another?
Well, who wrote the law on their hearts? Why did someone not just give them a Bible? Could it have been the Holy Spirit who wrote it? Rev 7:9 say's there will be people from every tribe and tongues and nation in Heaven.
There will be two Pygmies that never saw a white man let alone heard of Jesus, grinding at the mill, one will be taken and the other shall be left. Why? Because one obeyed that Law written on his heart. We all have it written on our hearts, but the ones that obey will be the ones that go to heaven. Read Romans 6:17 It's all about the heart!
Wrong. Rom 1 is clear. Paul explained it here:I'm finding your reply weak. Perhaps you don't have the time to explain yourself...I get that way sometimes.
Currently you still seem to be dodging around the issue.
In Romans 1 there's a reason for why they "exchange the truth for a lie". They may not even know their making the exchange. It's man nature to make the exchange.
I've already told you it doesn't matter why not. They have no excuse for not believing. God gave them everything they needed, but they refused anyway.The question remains in a slightly different form now...WHY do they not believe if God gives them everything they need to make the decesion WITH OUT the Holy Spirit?
Rev 3:20 Jesus said behold I stand at the door and knock, they know there is a God, but act like they don't hear the knocking. That is why there will be no one with an excuse on Judgment Day.
So do you believe there will be people in Heaven who have never heard the name of Christ?
Faith has always been to be had in conjunction with the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit helps to soften hard hearts and lead us to the path of righteousness.No, its not the bad that you have done that will keep you out of Heaven, it's the good you refuse to do. James 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is a sin. No, Martin Luther didn't like the Book of James either.
The difference between faith and works is, works is doing what you think is right, which all of the religions of the world do, and faith is doing what God say's is right. If I'm a liberal, please show me where I'm telling lies. Jesus told the rich young ruler what to do to be saved, but he refused. Now he said he observed all the commandments, but the Ten Commandments were not the problem.
Jesus looked at his heart and told him what the problem was. Are you calling Jesus a liar? Jesus told him go, sell, and give and you will have treasure in Heaven. How could he have treasure in Heaven if he could not go to heaven? Jesus did not tell him, "sorry son, but your not one of the elect", you know, a Calvinist, oh that's right, he hasn't been born yet, so eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow your going to hell.
No, Jesus told him what he needed to do to get to Heaven, but he refused to do what was right. I'm I misquoting this to?
No, its not the bad that you have done that will keep you out of Heaven, it's the good you refuse to do. James 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is a sin. No, Martin Luther didn't like the Book of James either.
The difference between faith and works is, works is doing what you think is right, which all of the religions of the world do, and faith is doing what God say's is right. If I'm a liberal, please show me where I'm telling lies. Jesus told the rich young ruler what to do to be saved, but he refused. Now he said he observed all the commandments, but the Ten Commandments were not the problem.
Jesus looked at his heart and told him what the problem was. Are you calling Jesus a liar? Jesus told him go, sell, and give and you will have treasure in Heaven. How could he have treasure in Heaven if he could not go to heaven? Jesus did not tell him, "sorry son, but your not one of the elect", you know, a Calvinist, oh that's right, he hasn't been born yet, so eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow your going to hell.
No, Jesus told him what he needed to do to get to Heaven, but he refused to do what was right. I'm I misquoting this to?
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