• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

The Laodicean Message

Nov 15, 2011
1,496
5
✟24,905.00
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Single
The next day, brother Jones addressed the delegates saying,

"Some have said they cannot see how a man can acknowledge himself to be wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked, and don't know it, and at the same time be rejoicing in the Lord." 1893 General Conference Bulletin, p. 178.

"Well," he said, "I would like to know how any one else can! I would like to know how a man is going to rejoice in the Lord when he thinks he is all right himself. Can you tell? I can't imagnine. Why, brethren, the Lord does not save us because we are so good but because He is so good. Do not forget that." Ibid, 178.

"There is none good but one, that is, God." Mark 10:18.

"Every moment that I do not see and confess that I am blind, and have not Him as my sight, I am in sin; He says so. 'Now you say you see; therefore your sin remains.' And every moment that I do not see and confess my nakedness and depend only and absolutely upon Him and His righteousness to clothe me, why so certainly I am ruined, utterly ruined, and every moment that I begin to say, 'Now I know so much,' no, I do not know that at all. Well, then, the thing that I am to do is to say, 'Lord, I do not know it; I depend upon You to teach me everything, even to teach me that I am wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked, and that I need all these things. And when I tell Him all that, He will give all I need. He will do it. That is our situation." Ibid, 187.

And now about that thought last night--some thought that I was going entirely too far. They could say, it is well enough when He says, 'You are wretched,' I say I am wretched. When He says, 'You are poor,' I say I am poor. When He says, 'You are blind,' I say I am blind. When He says, 'You are naked,' I say, I am naked. And when He says, 'You don't know it, then I am to say, "I know it!'? No, no. When He says, 'You don't know it,' I am to say, 'I don't know it.' Do not go to putting constructions upon His way. When I say I am wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked, and on top of it He says that I don't know it, I say, "Lord, I dont' know it.' That brings us right to the text we started with that night,--'If any man thinks he knows anything, he does not know anything yet as he ought to know it.' 1 Cor.8:2. I do not know yet, as long as I have been acknowledging that thing, I know not how wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked I am.

Just as certainly as we take that Laodicean message as He speaks it, we shall receive all He has in it for us. Then brethren, that is what it is intended for. That is just what the Laodicean message is intended to do. Let it do its own work in His own way." Ibid, 178,179.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
Nov 15, 2011
1,496
5
✟24,905.00
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Single
"Those who live nearest to Jesus discern most clearly the frailty and sinfulness of humanity, and their only hope is in the merits of a crucified and risen Saviour." The Great Controversy, p.471.

Try to imagine yourself as one of the delegates at that Conference in 1893. Brother Jones is quoting from Mrs. White:

"Are you in Christ? Not if you do not acknowledge yourselves erring, helpless, condemned sinners." Testimony 31, p.44. (there is no condemnation for those who acknowledge themselves erring, helpless, condemned sinners for they are in Christ)

The brethren were skeptical. They asked, "We cannot see if we are in Christ, we are to acknowledge ourselves helpless, undone sinners. We thought if we were in Christ we could thank the Lord that we were good, holy and righteous, and all that." 1893 G.C. Bulletin, p.178.

"Why, no," said brother Jones. "Christ is. When you are in Christ, He is perfect, He is righteous, He is holy and never errs, and His holiness is imputed to you--is given to you. His faithfulness, His perfection is yours, but you are not that." Ibid, 178.

The brethren rejected the Laodicean Message because it was too humiliating to their dignity! Here is the record:

"I saw that you willfully rejected what you knew to be truth just because it was too humiliating to your dignity. I also saw that if you had accepted the Laodicean message, we would have been in the Kingdom two years from that date." G.G. White, Melbourne, Australia, May 7, 1892.

The brethren rejected the "heavenly illumination (1 S.M.130) just because it was too humiliating to their dignity. A few years before 1888, this testimony had been sent to the church:

"We have long desired and tried to obtain the blessings of the Covenant of grace but we have not received them because we have cherished the idea that we could do something to make ourselves worthy of them." Ellen White, Faith and Works, p.36.

Two years after 1888, she wrote:

"Discussions may be entered into by mortals strenuously advocating creature merit, and each man strving for the supremacy, but they simply do not know that all the time, in principle and character, they are misrepresenting the truth as it is in Jesus. They are in a fog of bewilderment. They need the divine love of God which is represented by gold tried in the fire; they need the white raiment of Christ's pure character and they need the heavenly eyesalve that they might discern with astonishment the utter worthlessness of creature merit to earn the wages of eternal life." Faith and Works, p.23.

"The proud heart strives to earn his salvation." D.A.300.

However, "When we seek to gain Heaven through the merits of Christ, the soul makes progress, from strength to strength and from victory to victory." Faith & Works,94.

"Living faith enables its possessor to lay hold of the merits of Christ, enables him to derive great comfort and satisfaction from the plan of redemption." 1 S.M.364.

sky
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Castaway57

Born Twice
Mar 29, 2012
1,882
27
70
✟26,079.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Private
No comment on these Woody?

Jesus said, "The children of the kingdom will be cast out." Matt.8:12.

In other words,

"Of those who boast of their light, and yet fail to walk in it, Christ says, 'But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you. And thou, Capernaum {Seventh-day Adventists, who have had great light, which art exalted unto Heaven (in point of privilege)}, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. But I say unto you, That it shalt be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.'" E.G. White, Review & Herald, August 1,1893.
Hmmm, the brackets you have added with your own phrases within them seem quite uninspired, and nothing short of "private interpretation" of which scripture clearly warns us about. I know you really like to whip people with Mat 8:12, but after reading everything you have just posted, I will say one thing, for now. You have become quite skilled at taking paragraphs out of their context, in isolation from their surrounding passages, and making them say whatever you want to - something else we are clearly entreated not to do

One of the biggest mistakes you make with this kind of non-scriptural foundation is you have built up a large body of quotes which seem to make God's last word, punishment. Yet, the Bible, and the Advent Message is equally clear that you preach falsehood with this kind of message. God's last word is NEVER punishment, it is mercy.

According to the Bible; which you seem to keep losing, God's last word is never punishment:
Mic 7:18 Who is a God like unto thee, that pardoneth iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retaineth not his anger for ever, because he delighteth in mercy.
Mic 7:19 He will turn again, he will have compassion upon us; he will subdue our iniquities; and thou wilt cast all their sins into the depths of the sea.
Mic 7:20 Thou wilt perform the truth to Jacob, and the mercy to Abraham, which thou hast sworn unto our fathers from the days of old.
The good news of the Three Angel's Message is John 3:17, which, by the way, is also a good summary of the Laodicean message. You better dust off your Bible if you want to discuss that message here.
 
Upvote 0
Nov 15, 2011
1,496
5
✟24,905.00
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Single
"Of those who boast of their light, and yet fail to walk in it, Christ says, 'But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you. And thou, Capernaum {Seventh-day Adventists, who have had great light, which art exalted unto Heaven (in point of privilege)}, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. But I say unto you, That it shalt be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.'" E.G. White, Review & Herald, August 1,1893.

Woody, you know that the brackets are Mrs. White's.

I have the Review & Herald volumes with me here at home and I have quoted word for word and did not add anything in brackets. The brackets are Mrs. White's.

Before you make all sorts of allegations, please do your homework.

And please stop taunting the users of this forum and stick to the issues.

sky
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Castaway57

Born Twice
Mar 29, 2012
1,882
27
70
✟26,079.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Private
"Of those who boast of their light, and yet fail to walk in it, Christ says, 'But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you. And thou, Capernaum {Seventh-day Adventists, who have had great light, which art exalted unto Heaven (in point of privilege)}, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. But I say unto you, That it shalt be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.'" E.G. White, Review & Herald, August 1,1893.

Woody, you know that the brackets are Mrs. White's.

I have the Review & Herald volumes with me here at home and I have quoted word for word and did not add anything in brackets. The brackets are Mrs. White's.

Before you make all sorts of allegations, please do your homework.

And please stop taunting the users of this forum and stick to the issues.

sky
One thing I do know is that you are the one doing the taunting. Every post you make is a smear against the church and what we believe. Also; you have got the wrong name here.
 
Upvote 0

JDMiowa

Outside the box
Apr 9, 2012
823
16
✟29,515.00
Faith
Nazarene
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
One thing I do know is that you are the one doing the taunting. Every post you make is a smear against the church and what we believe. Also; you have got the wrong name here.

Was Elijah not an Israeli? Should we not all be Elijah's? Does God not worn his people? If my people who called by my name...
 
Upvote 0
Nov 15, 2011
1,496
5
✟24,905.00
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Single
Was Elijah not an Israeli? Should we not all be Elijah's? Does God not worn his people? If my people who called by my name...

Amen!

Just as there were false prophets in the days of Elijah, there are many today.

"From Elijah's experience during those days of discouragement and apparent defeat there are many lessons to be drawn, lessons invaluable to the servants of God in this age, marked as it is by general departure from right. The apostasy prevailing today is similar to that which in the prophet's day overspread Israel... Baal, Baal, is the choice. The religion of many among us will be the religion of apostate Israel, because they love their own way, and forsake the way of the Lord." P.K.170; T.M.467-468.

What is the religion of Baal?

"In the exaltation of the human above the divine, in the praise of popular teachers, in the worship of mammon, and in the placing of the teachings of science (falsely so-called) above the truths of inspiration, multitudes are following after Baal." P.K.170. *brackets mine

This is happening in the professed church today as it has been shown again and again from the Testimonies, especially from the book Testimonies to Ministers.

In Testimonies to Ministers, p.365, we are told that in the professed church of Christ, "Humanity is hailed as God." If this is not the exaltation of the human above the divine, what is it? And that is why on page 362 and 363 we are told that we are "following in track of Romanism."

History is being repeated. 1 Cor.10:11.

sky
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Castaway57

Born Twice
Mar 29, 2012
1,882
27
70
✟26,079.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Private
In Testimonies to Ministers, p.365, we are told that in the professed church of Christ, "Humanity is hailed as God." If this is not the exaltation of the human above the divine, what is it? And that is why on page 362 and 363 we are told that we are "following in track of Romanism."

sky
Actually; you are seriously way off base here. One, you have failed to use your Bible again, and you are abusing Ellen White's writings, and the writings of others, by using them to determine doctrine. Yet, in all of her publications and ministry, she always used her writings to point people to the Bible, and what it says about a given subject.

It might shock you to realize my friend that it is you who is "trusting in man;" here because of your refusal to base your beliefs on the Bible alone and your persistence in trying to show how much the spirit of prophecy is like the Bible; infact, according to your posting style here, it is so much like the Bible that we don't need to use the Bible as long as we cherry pick the right quotes, from Ellen White, Jones & Waggoner, etc.

But there is an even more serious issue at stake here. You use this passage from TM as a whip to beat up the Adventist church with. But lets look at how that actually works a little closer, shall we? TM is actually not a book physically written by Mrs White, in the strictest sense of the word. TM is a compilation from a large number of her writings, and these compilations were put together by the very Conference officials which you include in your condemnations regarding "trusting of man." You are guilty of trusting in man-made compilations, and using them as gospel truth.
 
Upvote 0
Nov 15, 2011
1,496
5
✟24,905.00
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Single
I am not "beating up" the Adventist church, I am only revisiting what the Lord said happened decades ago. It has been ignored but we can't continue to put our head in the sand. These things won't go away.

What we do with these warnings we shall have to answer to God.

Let us be careful how we treat these messages for we are on holy ground.

sky
 
Upvote 0

Castaway57

Born Twice
Mar 29, 2012
1,882
27
70
✟26,079.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Private
I am not "beating up" the Adventist church, I am only revisiting what the Lord said happened decades ago. It has been ignored but we can't continue to put our head in the sand. These things won't go away.

What we do with these warnings we shall have to answer to God.

Let us be careful how we treat these messages for we are on holy ground.

sky
LOL, "holy ground," eh? I think you spelled that wrong. It should read "Holey Ground;" as there are many holes in what you bring here. You are not infact "revisiting" anything. You are hand-picking things to give a certain slant to what you want to do and that is to beat up the church which you so vehemently preach against. You refuse to listen to the counsel which you keep saying you believe, and to stop using Ellen White's writings in ways she would never approve of. They are not to be used to establish doctrine. period. End of story.
 
Upvote 0

Castaway57

Born Twice
Mar 29, 2012
1,882
27
70
✟26,079.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Private
The next day, brother Jones addressed the delegates saying,



And now about that thought last night--some thought that I was going entirely too far. They could say, it is well enough when He says, 'You are wretched,' I say I am wretched. When He says, 'You are poor,' I say I am poor. When He says, 'You are blind,' I say I am blind. When He says, 'You are naked,' I say, I am naked. And when He says, 'You don't know it, then I am to say, "I know it!'? No, no. When He says, 'You don't know it,' I am to say, 'I don't know it.' Do not go to putting constructions upon His way. When I say I am wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked, and on top of it He says that I don't know it, I say, "Lord, I dont' know it.' That brings us right to the text we started with that night,--'If any man thinks he knows anything, he does not know anything yet as he ought to know it.' 1 Cor.8:2.
Jones thought he was pretty hot stuff by saying this kind of thing so correctly; but if he really believed this gospel; his messages in the end would not have been so defiant and self-praising...He fell into a trap that many do, who when they hear the gospel; want to apply it to others; but never to themselves. That is actually a part of The Laodicean Message, and why it contains the warnings therein. But God's last word is never punishment. It is always mercy, and that is the other part of the Laodicean message. Many will not accept as present truth, the mercy & love of God. It is sad to watch "the love of many wax cold."
 
Upvote 0

OldStudent

Junior Member
Feb 24, 2007
434
21
central Ohio
✟23,188.00
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
While I am not pleased with the disgusting lukewarm state or the rest of the grade card there are some wonderful things contained in the overall message.

It's the last church addressed. If we take the churches of Revelation 2 and 3 as a historical sequence then that means the history of the church as an embassy in the world is winding up. It is this church which steps into the millennium and beyond.

If you do a word study on “Laodicea” in the Strong’s Concordance something interesting comes to light. It is a fusion of two words. Laos – people. Dike – associated with judicial process. So the very name links to judgment. This fits with the whole idea of Jesus stepping into service in the heavenly sanctuary to fulfill that which the Day of Atonement signified in the Mosaic tabernacle service. This commenced in 1844.

The city of Laodicea was a rich, proud, self sufficient city. It was known as a center of health care, fine textiles, leisure especially with its tepid water baths, and high finance. The church was of that culture and remarkably resembles ours. The language addressed to them is familiar to us – that of buying and trading assets. Language of their utter poverty yet having to buy fine assets was/is a confusing affront. Yet the transaction as ridiculous as it seems is in reality a wonderful expression of His grace. As presented in so many other ways, God invests in us. He gives us what we don’t have and can’t obtain. Though we have nothing worthy to trade of the assets He wants us to buy, He supplies the needed assets – a backward way of saying it’s a gift. That’s a strike to Laodicean pride.

We face Satan at his "best." Since Jesus he has had another 2000 years of practice. He has power, privileges, and propaganda at his disposal that could only be conceived of in the last 50 years. He brings all this to bear on distracting, deceiving, lulling any would be defectors into the kingdom of God. Our position is so vital to the plans of God, our risky position is so tenuous that He has to hit us with an AED (defibrillator) shock to rouse us. For all the noise, turmoil, and loud correction Jesus explicitly expresses His love in a way not heard by the previous churches.

There are theories that the Laodicean church is going to be spewed out and discarded by God. Some say there will be a reemergence of Philadelphia. There are calls to come out of the fallen church of Laodicea. Hogwash. There is no eighth church. Jesus makes no call to be like any other church. Bloom where we are planted. He does call us to overcome. He makes entreaties like none other. He makes Himself immediately available – just outside the door. He waits and hopes we will let Him in to join us in pleasant, intimate fellowship. This privileged intimacy is offered to no other group or era. If Laodicea is to be spewed out and discarded then the call to overcome, the expression of love, the invitation, the promised fellowship with Jesus are worthless hot air and irrelevant.

Consider this: it is from this church, from those that overcome that the 144,000 are developed. Do a search on the 144,000 in EGW and compare their privileges with those promised the Laodiceans by Jesus.

Let's answer His call and "git'er done."
 
Upvote 0
Nov 15, 2011
1,496
5
✟24,905.00
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Single
There are theories that the Laodicean church is going to be spewed out and discarded by God. Some say there will be a reemergence of Philadelphia. There are calls to come out of the fallen church of Laodicea. Hogwash. There is no eighth church.

_________________

OS, I do agree with you that some will come from Laodicea to be among the 144,000 but the majority will come from the world during the loud cry.

What if I told you that in 1903 Mrs. White, in the Testimonies, declared that the message to Sardis applied to the people of Laodicea? In that message there are two parties: 1. Those who have a name to live but are dead and 2. Those who are striving to overcome but are ready to die. This testimony is found in Bible Commentary, Vol.7,959 and is dated August 20,1903!

Here it is:

"In the message to the church at Sardis two parties are presented--those who have a name to live, but are dead; and those who are striving to overcome but are ready to die. Study this message, found in the third chapter of Revelation. {Rev.3;1,2 quoted.} Who are meant by those that are ready to die? and what has made them thus? The explanation is given, "I have not found thy works perfect before God." {Vs.3-5 quoted.} To the church of the present day this message is sent. I call upon our church members to read the whole of the third chapter of Revelation, and to make an application of it. The message to the church of the Laodicean applies especially to the people of God today. It is a message to professing Christians who have become so much like the world that no difference can be seen." Review & Herald, Aug.20,1903.

And what if i told you that the two promises made to Philadelphia (Rev.3:9,10) have not yet been fulfilled and will not be fulfilled until after the close of probation at the time of the fifth plague when those of the synagogue of Satan are about to execute the death decree upon the faithful few. As they are about to administer the death blow thick darkness falls upon the earth and they lose sight of their prey and then they see the sign of God's covenant hovering over the people of God and then they realize that they are on the wrong side and they fall at the feet of the saints and acknowledge that God has loved them.

In the book The Great Controversy, in the chapter THE TIME OF TROUBLE following THE FINAL WARNING chapter, Mrs. White places these promises to be fulfilled at the time when the faithful few will be surrounded by enemies who are bent upon their destruction. This is the time when the wicked are preparing to execute to death decree upon the faithful.

"Though God's people will be surrounded by enemies who are bent upon their destruction, yet the anguish which they suffer is not a dread of persecution for the truth's sake; they fear that every sin has not been repented of, and that through some fault in themselves they will fail to realize the fulfillment of the Saviour's promise: 'I will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world.' Revelation 3:10. If they could have the assurance of pardon they would not shrink from torture or death; but should they prove unworthy, and lose their lives because of their own defects of character, then God's holy name would be reproached." G.C.619.

In A WORD TO THE LITTLE FLOCK, p.12, Mrs. White places both promises at the same time when those of the synagogue of Satan are about to slay the saints moment before the fifth plague falls upon the earth. Here it is:

"You think, that those who worship before the saint's feet, [Rev.3:9), will at last be saved. Here I must differ with you; for God showed me that this class were professed Adventists, who had fallen away, and 'crucified to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put Him to an open shame.' And in the 'hour of temptation,' which is yet to come, to show out every one's character, they will know that they are forever lost; and overwhelmed with anguish of spirit, they will bow at the saint's feet." (Rev.3:9,10)

This is confirmed in The Great Controversy, pp.635-636; 655-656.

This makes it crystal clear that the message to Philadelphia applies to the 144,000.

sky
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Castaway57

Born Twice
Mar 29, 2012
1,882
27
70
✟26,079.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Private
This makes it crystal clear that the message to Philadelphia applies to the 144,000.

sky
The whole Bible applies to all people, of all time. There is not one iota that does not apply to all of us somehow - those messages to the seven churches of revelation apply to everyone. Scripture shows this clearly.
 
Upvote 0

Castaway57

Born Twice
Mar 29, 2012
1,882
27
70
✟26,079.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Private
Ya right castaway. Whatever you say but the Lord will have the last word as to who is "hand-picking" things here and who is giving a certain "slant" to things. You remind me of the Pharisees of Christ's day and of the leaders in the days of Elijah.

sky
Jones thought he was pretty hot stuff by saying what he did about the church; but if he really believed this gospel; his messages in the end would not have been so defiant and self-praising...He fell into a trap that many do, who when they hear the gospel; want to apply it to others; but never to themselves. That is actually a part of The Laodicean Message, and why it contains the warnings therein. But God's last word is never punishment. It is always mercy, and that is the other part of the Laodicean message. Many will not accept as present truth, the mercy & love of God. It is sad to watch "the love of many wax cold." Jones is a good example of one who would not listen to the Laodicean message.
 
Upvote 0

Castaway57

Born Twice
Mar 29, 2012
1,882
27
70
✟26,079.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Private
Sometimes, people get so caught up in one aspect of the Laodicean message that all they want to do is to over-emphasize what they call "the warning message" and it's not that I think the warnings therein should be ignored, or swept under the rug, but I do wonder about our emphasis and how it often eclipses the Christ-centered Hope that we have in this important message.

Here is the passage which I am referring to as where we need to have much more emphasis than we often do:
Rev 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
Now; hopefully, I wont get accused of "preaching smooth things" for saying that this should be our MAIN emphasis. What do others think?

Also, has anyone had personal experience in what Jesus counsels here, to "buy gold tried in the fire?" I would be really interested to hear comments/testimonies about this from others. I will be back soon to post some of my own experience asap. :)
 
Upvote 0