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The KJVO myth...

SaintCody777

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KJVOs often complain that new Bible versions, including the the NKJV, downplay the diety and Lordship of Jesus Christ. But I find a big flaw in the KJV (and NIV) that the NKJV actually corrects. the NKJV actually capitalizes any word or pronoun that has to do with God/Yahweh/Jehovah and Jesus. That way it not only signifies glory to the Lord but also tells exactly if the Lord is saying some specific thing or doing something specific. This i s especially the case in Bible verses where there is so many "he"s that you don't know whether it comes from the Lord or some other guy.
 
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SaintCody777

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KJVOs often complain that new Bible versions, including the the NKJV, downplay the diety and Lordship of Jesus Christ. But I find a big flaw in the KJV (and NIV) that the NKJV actually corrects. the NKJV actually capitalizes any word or pronoun that has to do with God/Yahweh/Jehovah and Jesus. That way it not only signifies glory to the Lord but also tells exactly if the Lord is saying some specific thing or doing something specific. This i s especially the case in Bible verses where there is so many "he"s that you don't know whether it comes from the Lord or some other guy.
 
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createdtoworship

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KJVOs often complain that new Bible versions, including the the NKJV, downplay the diety and Lordship of Jesus Christ. But I find a big flaw in the KJV (and NIV) that the NKJV actually corrects. the NKJV actually capitalizes any word or pronoun that has to do with God/Yahweh/Jehovah and Jesus. That way it not only signifies glory to the Lord but also tells exactly if the Lord is saying some specific thing or doing something specific. This i s especially the case in Bible verses where there is so many "he"s that you don't know whether it comes from the Lord or some other guy.

KJVOs often complain that new Bible versions, including the the NKJV, downplay the diety and Lordship of Jesus Christ. But I find a big flaw in the KJV (and NIV) that the NKJV actually corrects. the NKJV actually capitalizes any word or pronoun that has to do with God/Yahweh/Jehovah and Jesus. That way it not only signifies glory to the Lord but also tells exactly if the Lord is saying some specific thing or doing something specific. This i s especially the case in Bible verses where there is so many "he"s that you don't know whether it comes from the Lord or some other guy.

yes most of the obvious errors of the KJV are fixed in the NKJV, some say they over do it. Others say they didn't do it enough. Regardless. I provide evidence that God's had was upon the KJV in previous posts, that does not mean it's perfect, but still I believe God's had allowed at least one pure manuscript family to exist, byzantine and at least one translation to be somewhat literal in it's approach to the byzantine manuscript. There are probably a dozen other byzantinian translations out there right now, project called "majority text" translations. Some are good, and others are poor. But I like the over all quality of the KJV. It had many many scholars on it.
 
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robycop3

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yes most of the obvious errors of the KJV are fixed in the NKJV, some say they over do it. Others say they didn't do it enough. Regardless. I provide evidence that God's had was upon the KJV in previous posts, that does not mean it's perfect, but still I believe God's had allowed at least one pure manuscript family to exist, byzantine and at least one translation to be somewhat literal in it's approach to the byzantine manuscript. There are probably a dozen other byzantinian translations out there right now, project called "majority text" translations. Some are good, and others are poor. But I like the over all quality of the KJV. It had many many scholars on it.

The same God who preserved the "Byz" mss. preserved the "Alex" ones as well.
 
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robycop3

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The scripture uses turtledove when it means it, pigeon when it means pigeon see Luke 2:24 I have no doubt when it says Turtle it means Turtle.

Heard any singing turtles lately besides the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles ?

But the older English translations say "turtles" when they mean mean turtleDOVES at times. In fact, the only mention of turtle or turtles in the KJV is in reference to turtledoves.
 
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robycop3

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So why did you say they were all inspired translations then? Now you are saying they are not all inspired.

I meant VALID ones.(Before ya ask, a valid translation is one that follows its sources closely.)

The point being,I don't see why the team of translators that put the KJV together would write in their version they made was superior. Would make them sound like self righteous braggarts.

They said they were making "one more translation", meaning it was to be added to those already made.
 
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Shrewd Manager

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I am going to go out on a limb and say the original restored text of Jerome’s Vulgate, because he had access to Greek manuscripts of the New Testament far older than anything we now have, and also, to Origen’s Hexapla for the Old Testament, and he was unbiased as a translator, translating every book he was commanded to, and not just those he felt were authentic or worthy of use.

I'm not questioning Jerome's sincerity or his abilities, but he was (like all of us) a product of his circumstances, retaining certain unconscious biases and assumptions (sins/ shortcomings).

For instance, it's been said he held a view that divine judgment is primarily retributive rather than restorative/ corrective. That would be one major departure from Origenist theology, which was later championed by another Latin, Augustine.

Also, I understand he was a cranky and intemperate type, as displayed in the Rufinus affair. This might not assist in rendering a consistent translation in the spirit of grace and erring on the side of generosity.
 
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Shrewd Manager

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View attachment 268910
Dqhall with the Codex Sinaiticus David Daniels does make the claim that the Codex Sinaiticus cannot be that old simply because many of the leafs vary in colour some actually being White. There has always been sources challenging the authenticity of Count Tischendorf discovery of the manuscripts even prior to what has been researched and claimed in Mr Daniels book to how credible they were really were But what I’m more interested in for now is the colour variations and how this could have occurred. As this was duly noted from witness accounts not long after their original discovery. .

Count Tischendorf is a name that inspires a similar degree of confidence as Heinrich Schliemann in the field of Trojan archaeology. Now they're boldly asserting that the authenticity of the latter's discoveries can't be falsified because in his enthusiastic digging for Agamemnon's treasure he destroyed all the mounds above the oldest Troy. We wake up to the stench of fraud and cover-up.
 
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David Kent

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My wife's aunt is persuaded that Korean is the world's first language, and therefore the language of God. She won't read any English translation, insisting that the only accurate version of the Bible is Korean
David Cloud says there are plays on words in Genesis that only work in Hebrew, so Hebrew must be the oldest language.
 
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createdtoworship

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The same God who preserved the "Byz" mss. preserved the "Alex" ones as well.

Well aparently there are over twenty pieces of evidence that say the alexandrian, vaticanus and sinaiticus were forged and funded by the vatican to remove the KJV as the primary version of the scriptures, needless to say, it worked.
 
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Isilwen

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1) that majesty of Jacobean English which you referred to and which anyone having a High School education can understand with an occasional assist

Blind post.

I have a high school education and an above average IQ, yet I had and still do have issues with Jacobean English. It's distracting to me. I actually failed that section of English class. Distraction is not good when reading the bible.

So, a blanket statement like your above isn't necessarily true.
 
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1Reformedman

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So why did you say they were all inspired translations then? Now you are saying they are not all inspired.

The point being,I don't see why the team of translators that put the KJV together would write in their version they made was superior. Would make them sound like self righteous braggarts.

I think you are conflating the difference between copies and the original inspired manuscripts. Only the original manuscripts are truely inspired, as they were penned by those God inspired to originally write the word of God. Im not saying God doesn't preserve his world. Im beginning to wonder if you are applying the correct meaning of the word "inspired" (God breathed) as used in the bible, not the modern defintion. God breathed is referring to the divine inspiration (inbreathing) of Scripture (used only in 2 Tim 3:16). It's to be written on the tablet of our hearts.
 
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createdtoworship

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When in doubt, blame it on a Jesuit conspiracy :rolleyes:

Conspiracy? Well, this will be my last reply to your posts sir. I typically stop talking when it gets heated. But let me provide a review of bill cooper's work on this...there are dozens of photographs provin sinaiticus was bleached to look like it was from the fourth century, etc...

1. The book shows why Constantin Tischendorf (the man who "discovered" the Codex) was not trustworthy (the author explains many reasons why).
2. It explains how Roman Catholic Pope Gregory XVI left his fingerprints on the fraud and how untrustworthy Gregory was.
3. It digs into how the Roman Catholic Jesuits had their fingerprints ALL OVER this forgery/fraud and that they (and the Vatican) have a long history of being in the fraud business.
4. Cooper shows that two of the books within the Codex were written in modern Greek, while the rest of the books were in Koine Greek and yet one version of Greek follows the other version of Greek ON THE SAME PAGE inside the Codex.
5. He explains with meticulous detail how the parchment could not POSSIBLY be as old as claimed.
6. He demonstrates beyond doubt how one or more persons attempted to artificially age the Codex.
7. Cooper shows how it is impossible for several "wormholes" to be square (though it is claimed that they are wormholes) and how "wormholes" appear in single pages over and over again without going into adjacent pages.
8. He demonstrates how stains are inconsistent on pages, never having leaked over or through to another page
9. He brings forth the testimony of the man who claimed to have written the entire Codex in the 1800s and the proofs the man himself offered up that he had written it, including codes that he left on certain pages of the Codex.
10. He shows how Fenton Hort was involved in trying to cover up the deceit (or maybe he really believed it)
 
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Albion

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Blind post.

I have a high school education and an above average IQ, yet I had and still do have issues with Jacobean English. It's distracting to me. I actually failed that section of English class. Distraction is not good when reading the bible.

So, a blanket statement like your above isn't necessarily true.
On the other hand, it is fair to say that anyone CAN understand the KJV if he has a High School education because the KJV is rated as being at the 12th grade level of comprehension! I didn't just pull that comment or that rating out of thin air when I was writing my earlier post..

And I acknowledged that sometimes a little clarification helps. But what is so unusual about that? There are all sorts of writings on specialized topics that we all read every day which require some explanation. By comparsion, members of other religions are taught to read their sacred writings in the original languages...and those people do it.

Your misgivings about this translation are a matter of you simply disliking the elegant language. That's what you said.

So for you, there are "modern language" translations, if you prefer them. No one is saying you cannot use them. That you have such an issue, a very personal one, doesn't mean that there is anything inherently defective about the King James Version, though.
 
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Strong in Him

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On the other hand, it is fair to say that anyone CAN understand the KJV if he has a High School education because the KJV is rated as being at the 12th grade level of comprehension! I didn't just pull that comment or that rating out of thin air when I was writing my earlier post..

And I acknowledged that sometimes a little clarification helps. But what is so unusual about that?

I'm certain that many people CAN understand the KJV, but I wouldn't recommend it for a new Christian or someone you are trying to encourage to look at the Bible and see what it says.
There may be exceptions, but it's generally probably best to use a modern version at times like that; make it as easy as possible for non believers to read the Bible, and WANT to read it.
 
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Kate30

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From what I read someone partially erased the old ink and wrote over pages of the original manuscript. It is called a palimpsest. There are other old Greek Bible manuscripts that may be presented as evidence. Not that one could conclude the KJV is perfect and others are errant. To reach such a hypothesis, one would need to ignore over 50 years of Dead Sea Scroll scholarship.
Dghall that’s right. As scribes or writers of both biblical, historical, religious and secular manuscripts they did use the palimpsest method of erasing previous writings to save on expenses with new manuscripts all the way up to the Middle Ages. Sometimes diverse layers were left leading to some amazing discoveries of previous works. As to the bible and the church being held answerable to the mere 50 yrs of Dead Sea Scroll scholarship. I don’t think so. The scrolls do shed light on many interesting things, along with some biblical finds as well. But do remember they are mostly a mixture of many non biblical writings most of which would not be accepted into our cannon of scripture anyway. Besides we have thousands of manuscripts that already verify our bible. Throw in the other 1950 yrs of church history along with the many volumes written by the church fathers in which we nearly have the entirety of our bible just there alone. As to the question of the King James Bible being perfect. Well it certainly has stood the test of time.
 
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dqhall

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Dghall that’s right. As scribes or writers of both biblical, historical, religious and secular manuscripts they did use the palimpsest method of erasing previous writings to save on expenses with new manuscripts all the way up to the Middle Ages. Sometimes diverse layers were left leading to some amazing discoveries of previous works. As to the bible and the church being held answerable to the mere 50 yrs of Dead Sea Scroll scholarship. I don’t think so. The scrolls do shed light on many interesting things, along with some biblical finds as well. But do remember they are mostly a mixture of many non biblical writings most of which would not be accepted into our cannon of scripture anyway. Besides we have thousands of manuscripts that already verify our bible. Throw in the other 1950 yrs of church history along with the many volumes written by the church fathers in which we nearly have the entirety of our bible just there alone. As to the question of the King James Bible being perfect. Well it certainly has stood the test of time.
I listened to a lecture by Hershel Shanks, previous editor of Biblical Archaeology Review. He said the Dead Sea Scrolls translation revealed errors in Bible manuscripts that were published later, both Greek (LXX) and Hebrew.
 
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David Kent

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