The Joseph Smith Sects

Duvduv · Apr 9, 2018

I have done alot of reading about the various sects venerating Joseph Smith and his books, generically called Mormons and LDS etc. The whole scenario is still strange to my mind. I start with wondering why a large number of people are not open enough to the possibility that their prophet of Restorationism engaged a ghost writer or writers to put together the book as inspired from a number of sources including the King James Bible, books about the Indians, and of course the Old Testament itself. Then there are all the "minutae" of the internal doctrinal disputes that led to the growth of many subsects. All in less than 200 years. It's rather interesting.

Marie1980 · Apr 9, 2018

Stone in hat=witchcraft that's how he translated the BOM

rockytopva · Apr 9, 2018

We at CF do not consider Joseph Smith sects Christian.

joshua 1 9 · Apr 9, 2018

rockytopva said:
We at CF do not consider Joseph Smith sects Christian.

It is not our job to decide who is and who is not a christian. We are told to let the weeds grow with the wheat and the angels will sort them out at the end of the age.

As long as we are talking about the subject. What do you find in one of their books that contradicts the Bible?

ripple the car · Apr 9, 2018

joshua 1 9 said:
It is not our job to decide who is and who is not a christian. We are told to let the weeds grow with the wheat and the angels will sort them out at the end of the age.

If the group has some serious, serious theological, historical, and moral issues, is a type of "restorationism" which preaches the existence of a mother goddess and the prior humanity and creation of God the Father, then it's safe to say that such a group is not Christian.

joshua 1 9 · Apr 9, 2018

Gracia Singh said:
If the group has some serious, serious theological, historical, and moral issues, is a type of "restorationism" which preaches the existence of a mother goddess and the prior humanity and creation of God the Father, then it's safe to say that such a group is not Christian.

I was asking about the teaching of Joseph Smith. Not what was added after he died. They say: "there is no record of a formal revelation to Joseph Smith on this doctrine". For me I like to go back to Moses because he had all of God's plan of salvation. All the people after Moses helps us to understand what God gave to Moses. So we should be able to go back to see what he says about it. Moses mostly give us words and later on they help us to understand the meaning of those word symbols that we receive from Moses. For example the first word in the Bible is "beginning" We know God is the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. He knows the end from the beginning and David tells us the book of our life is written before we are even born. We could spend our whole life trying to learn about the word: beginning. In the end we would just be beginning to understand. Because God is infinite and He has no beginning or end. He is outside of time.

ripple the car · Apr 9, 2018

joshua 1 9 said:
I was asking about the teaching of Joseph Smith. Not what was added after he died. They say: "there is no record of a formal revelation to Joseph Smith on this doctrine". For me I like to go back to Moses because he had all of God's plan of salvation. All the people after Moses helps us to understand what God gave to Moses. So we should be able to go back to see what he says about it. Moses mostly give us words and later on they help us to understand the meaning of those word symbols that we receive from Moses. For example the first word in the Bible is "beginning" We know God is the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. He knows the end from the beginning and David tells us the book of our life is written before we are even born. We could spend our whole life trying to learn about the word: beginning. In the end we would just be beginning to understand. Because God is infinite and He has no beginning or end. He is outside of time.

I really don't think there's any way to justifiably compare Moses with Joseph Smith.

joshua 1 9 · Apr 9, 2018

Gracia Singh said:
I really don't think there's any way to justifiably compare Moses with Joseph Smith.

Really that is what you walk away with from what I said? I am not comparing them at all. I simply said that Joseph Smith is one of millions or billions of people out there trying to help people understand what Moses said. No one is on the same level as Moses. No one received all of God's plan the way Moses did. Although anyone willing to pay the price that Moses paid could be used the way Moses was used by God.

Albion · Apr 9, 2018

joshua 1 9 said:
Really that is what you walk away with from what I said? I am not comparing them at all. I simply said that Joseph Smith is one of millions or billions of people out there trying to help people understand what Moses said.

What a novel interpretation.

ToBeLoved · Apr 9, 2018

rockytopva said:
We at CF do not consider Joseph Smith sects Christian.

Most Christians do not consider Mormons as Christian, but that is one of the things they like to say to get Christians to listen to their stuff. It’s very much their marketing ploy

ToBeLoved · Apr 9, 2018

joshua 1 9 said:
Really that is what you walk away with from what I said? I am not comparing them at all. I simply said that Joseph Smith is one of millions or billions of people out there trying to help people understand what Moses said. No one is on the same level as Moses. No one received all of God's plan the way Moses did. Although anyone willing to pay the price that Moses paid could be used the way Moses was used by God.

Have you read the BOM?

You do know that Mormons say they have a FURTHER revelation of Jesus Christ, right?

They don’t touch the Old Testament except to try to establish their people in a country they didn’t exist in.

Duvduv · Apr 9, 2018

I guess we run into the thorny question of who defines whom. Indeed, I would assume that Catholics would consider anyone who does not acknowledge the Pope as the heir of Peter to be a Christian. Regardless of the ecumenism initiated by Pope John Paul. It is entirely likely that Catholics who reject Vatican II and Nostra Etaete would be justified not to consider the Catholic Church to be Christian.

Albion · Apr 10, 2018

ToBeLoved said:
Have you read the BOM?

You do know that Mormons say they have a FURTHER revelation of Jesus Christ, right?

They don’t touch the Old Testament except to try to establish their people in a country they didn’t exist in.

Untrue. Their theology conflicts with the Old Testament in many important ways, although it probably is true that the BOM is even more at odds with the NT.

rockytopva · Apr 10, 2018

Albion said:
Untrue. Their theology conflicts with the Old Testament in many important ways, although it probably is true that the BOM is even more at odds with the NT.

A good part of the BOM is cut and paste KJV,.

The Book of Mormon and the King James Version

Duvduv · Apr 10, 2018

Unfortunately public discourse about "Mormons" almost never presents the conflicts and disputes in theology between the Utah LDS and the others such as the former RLDS and other churches, preferring to obsess about the polygamous break aways from the Utah church. It's unfortunately because in the first instance the RLDS and other now extinct movements rejected most if not all of the now considered to be unusual and Masonic-like teachings of the Utah church. Apparently the RLDS now resembles something like a mainstream Methodist church that happens to have a restorationist theology associated with the BoM. On the other hand, it is also unfortunate that actually challenging the authenticity of the BoM does not occur at all. Indeed, it appears that Smith and his associates did not really have the capability of writing the book in the first place and must have paid a ghost writer very well for it.

Albion · Apr 10, 2018

rockytopva said:
A good part of the BOM is cut and paste KJV,.

The Book of Mormon and the King James Version

Oh sure. The BOM is dressed up with a lot of selections from the Bible--KJV version--in order to look scriptural. However, the theology is quite different.

rockytopva · Apr 10, 2018

I believe that Revelation foretells future events, including what would be the future of the Christian church...

Ephesus - Messianic - Beginning with the Apostle to the Circumcision, Peter
Smyrna - Martyr - Beginning with the Apostle to the Un-Circumcision, Paul
Pergamos - Orthodoxy formed in this time... Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages
Thyatira - Catholicism formed in this time - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate.
Sardis - Protestantism formed in this time- A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid
Philadelphia - Wesleyism formed in this time - To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.
Laodicea - Charismatic movement formed in this time - Beginning with DL Moody, the first to make money off of ministry

I believe the ChristianForums is the best place for fellowship for the entire church, from Messianic to Word of Faith. And that they have correctly identified the congregational forums, and give those forums protection from those of other congregations who may think bad about them.

I also believe that Mormon sects are correctly identified as basically unorthodox. If the Mormon fold was indeed part of the seven, I would wonder what congregation to include them in. It would probably be Sardisean.

Duvduv · Apr 14, 2018

I think it could be argued that weirdness and status as Christian is quite relative. Catholics who reject Vatican II and Nostra Etaete surely have reason not to consider the Vatican to be Christian. And many Protestants have long considered Catholicism not to be Christian!

ToBeLoved · Apr 14, 2018

Duvduv said:
I think it could be argued that weirdness and status as Christian is quite relative. Catholics who reject Vatican II and Nostra Etaete surely have reason not to consider the Vatican to be Christian. And many Protestants have long considered Catholicism not to be Christian!

That's silly.

I don't know a Protestant ever who has not considered a Catholic to be Christian.

What do you think is the agreed upon doctrine that we use to evaluate what is Christian vs. what or who is not Christian? I'll give you a hint. Hint: Catholics and Protestants use the same criteria.

Since you are telling Christians, what or who we believe is Christian and you have identified yourself in your profile as a follower of Judaism, I think given your above statement this question is very relevant.

Duvduv · Apr 14, 2018

You'll have to excuse me. Despite ecumenism the underlying principles of opposition to Catholicism imply things such as the Vatican as the Antichrist, so how could it be considered Christian? And certainly those Catholics opposed to Vatican II and Nostra Etaete would consider the Vatican as having abandoned Christianity.

The Joseph Smith Sects

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