The jews

[Tellyontellyon]

Some terrible things have happened to the Jews over the centuries... Ones in living memory include the Holocaust during WW2 and the attacks last year. I remember learning about Anne Francs diaries when I was is school. Awful times.

But according to Christianity, most of those tortured and murdered Jews are roasting in hell as they don't have the necessary faith in Christ's sacrifice..

Isn't this simply unfair and unjust? Is this the best God could come up with?

 

[trophy33]

"According to Christianity" - in Christianity, there are multiple views of hell. Some Christians even believe in universalism.

To your questions - God is perfect. All His choices are justified and the best choices possible.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Some terrible things have happened to the Jews over the centuries... Ones in living memory include the Holocaust during WW2 and the attacks last year. I remember learning about Anne Francs diaries when I was is school. Awful times.

But according to Christianity, most of those tortured and murdered Jews are roasting in hell as they don't have the necessary faith in Christ's sacrifice..

Isn't this simply unfair and unjust? Is this the best God could come up with?

Why stop there? What about infant's brains dashed out upon the rocks? What about tortured mangled living remains, or horrifying birth defects and unbearable disease? What about a whole world of people drowned but for 8 in the ark?

Why would you consider man worthy of God's notice, nevermind his respect as though we are fellow sentients with him? Must he treat every lump of dirt the same as the next?

If the dirt is sentient enough to notice and understand, why would it not, rather, be grateful to be allowed to watch the Almighty at work, rather than to complain?

 

[Tellyontellyon]

"According to Christianity" - in Christianity, there are multiple views of hell. Some Christians even believe in universalism.

To your questions - God is perfect. All His choices are justified and the best choices possible.

I don't see God as perfect, not the way he is described in the Bible.. or in what most Christian's believe. He sounds deeply flawed and rather immature.
That's how he looks to Buddhists. I'm not saying that to inflame or insult, it's simply how it looks to Buddhists. Jesus does a lot better, but God the Father comes across badly.

 

[trophy33]

I don't see God as perfect, not the way he is described in the Bible.. or in what most Christian's believe. He sounds deeply flawed and rather immature.
That's how he looks to Buddhists. I'm not saying that to inflame or insult, it's simply how it looks to Buddhists. Jesus does a lot better, but God the Father comes across badly.

There are also plenty of views about the Bible, in Christianity. Both natural and Christian theology teach us that God is perfect in every way. Therefore, we can adjust our view of the Old Testament, of its inspiration or of hell as needed. The only things we must keep are faith and love. Dogmas can go, if they are incompatible with the character of the perfect God.

Christianity is rather flexible in doctrines. Plenty of views about everything, except of few basic things that make a Christian to be a Christian.

 

[Tellyontellyon]

There are also plenty of views about the Bible, in Christianity. Both natural and Christian theology teach us that God is perfect in every way. Therefore, we can adjust our view of the Old Testament, of its inspiration or of hell as needed. The only things we must keep are faith and love. Dogmas can go, if they are incompatible with the character of the perfect God.

Christianity is rather flexible in doctrines. Plenty of views about everything, except of few basic things that make a Christian to be a Christian.

List the few basic things please.

 

[trophy33]

List the few basic things please.

Triune God, the Creator of everything. Jesus, His Son, died for our sins on the cross, was resurrected and ascended to heaven. We are saved by the faith in Him and so we have the eternal life.

In practice, we are called to transform ourselves to be as He wants us to be, to live a clean and peaceful life, to do good works and to share this good message with others.

The rest are mostly complex labyrinths of unending disputations, views and possibilities.

 

[jas3]

Isn't this simply unfair and unjust? Is this the best God could come up with?

Can you elaborate on why you think it's unjust?

 

[Tellyontellyon]

Can you elaborate on why you think it's unjust?

Well.. I thought that was obvious... but millions of innocent people being murdered and they end up in hell because they don't fulfil some condition for Christian salvation.

 

[Mark Quayle]

I don't see God as perfect, not the way he is described in the Bible.. or in what most Christian's believe. He sounds deeply flawed and rather immature.
That's how he looks to Buddhists. I'm not saying that to inflame or insult, it's simply how it looks to Buddhists. Jesus does a lot better, but God the Father comes across badly.

That isn't God, then. Explain how the self-existent can be subject to principles from outside himself. That is self-contradictory, but that is what you are describing.

Instead, consider our assignments and assessments of him deeply flawed.

 

[Tellyontellyon]

That isn't God, then. Explain how the self-existent can be subject to principles from outside himself. That is self-contradictory, but that is what you are describing.

Instead, consider our assignments and assessments of him deeply flawed.

You hide bad behaviour behind some concept... If God is self existent... then why can't he be bad? He does bad things and then the get defined as good because... he says so?
If I killed an innocent person and then tried to say that actually that was good, because I define it as good and I'm not capable of doing bad... well... That's nonsense.

 

[trophy33]

You hide bad behaviour behind some concept... If God is self existent... then why can't he be bad?

It follows from the natural theology, if you are not satisfied with the Christian theology alone. The highest being must be good, because its impossible for a perfect being to be "bad". Being bad is an imperfection.

That He does bad things and then the get defined as good because... he says so?

No, because the logic says so. Its impossible for God to do bad things for bad reasons. When some evil happens, then it would be worse if it would not happen and thats why God allowed it.

 

[Mark Quayle]

You hide bad behaviour behind some concept... If God is self existent... then why can't he be bad? He does bad things and then the get defined as good because... he says so?
If I killed an innocent person and then tried to say that actually that was good, because I define it as good and I'm not capable of doing bad... well... That's nonsense.

Well, there's a few thoughts there:

1) It would make no sense for Self-Existent Omnipotence to be bad. It would not be entertaining, for example, to him to torture anyone, since anyone he might otherwise torture is infinitely less than himself. God would find no pleasure in stepping on a grain of dust. Boring.
2) If Self-Existent Omnipotence decided to make something beautiful for himself, to be with him forever and to enjoy him, and he them, there can be only one way to do it, which, while he can speak that into existence 'instantaneously', it will, from our experience and definitions, take eons to accomplish. And that is what we are going through.

Call the sadness and suffering collateral damage, if you must —it is there for a reason. We know that the maker of the universe does not waste energy. There is a reason for all this, and it is a worthwhile reason.

3) Our self-important status as "sentients", self-aware, intelligent, introspective, abstract thinkers, doesn't even figure onto a scale with God, if he is self-existent. Our existence and ontology is entirely dependent on his, or he is not God.

 

[Lost4words]

Some terrible things have happened to the Jews over the centuries... Ones in living memory include the Holocaust during WW2 and the attacks last year. I remember learning about Anne Francs diaries when I was is school. Awful times.

But according to Christianity, most of those tortured and murdered Jews are roasting in hell as they don't have the necessary faith in Christ's sacrifice..

Isn't this simply unfair and unjust? Is this the best God could come up with?

To be honest, i have never heard of that...As a Catholic i dont believe that one bit. God is the only judge.

I love my Jewish brothers and sisters...

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

Some terrible things have happened to the Jews over the centuries... Ones in living memory include the Holocaust during WW2 and the attacks last year. I remember learning about Anne Francs diaries when I was is school. Awful times.

But according to Christianity, most of those tortured and murdered Jews are roasting in hell as they don't have the necessary faith in Christ's sacrifice..

Isn't this simply unfair and unjust? Is this the best God could come up with?

Ah of course. Let's blame everything bad on God, but never admit that all the evil in the world happens because we are evil.

What has God done unjust you are accusing Him off?

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

He sounds deeply flawed and rather immature.

What is the flaw you speak of?

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

Well.. I thought that was obvious... but millions of innocent people being murdered and they end up in hell because they don't fulfil some condition for Christian salvation.

Who is innocent? We all are sinners.

You want God not to punish sin? That's not just at all.

Sin separates us from God, and God is life. We chose to sin, not God. We told God we are better than Him, and yet we cannot even take a breath without Him.

God created hell to punish satan, and all those who side with him, including humans. Humanity sided with satan.

Yes, God is love and perfect. How can a loving God not punish evil? You want to do evil and not be punsihed by it? That does not seem fair.

God owes us nothing. Why should He do good to us when we rejected Him? We tell God what tp do, and yet we never do what He wants us to do. That does not seem fair since God created us, not the other way around.

And yet despite all our evil, He loves us and does good to us. He does good and we do evil. That doesn't seem fair.
If He was that bad, He would never send His only Son to die for us. Would you send your only child to die for the evil your enemy done? Well, God done that.
So what are you accusing Him off?

People go to hell because of their sin, not because they rejected Christ. We are all sinners, deserving hell, yet God desires no one to go to hell, so He provided a salvation through His Son. But because God is just, He will one day punish all the sin.

What has buddhism or any other religion done? Have they provided a savior? Do they punish sin justly? Or they just ignore it? No one has provided anything for your salvation other than the God of the Bible.

 

[jas3]

Who is innocent? We all are sinners.

You want God not to punish sin? That's not just at all.

Sin separates us from God, and God is life. We chose to sin, not God. We told God we are better than Him, and yet we cannot even take a breath without Him.

I was writing something to this effect, but this is a good succinct statement of my response.

What has buddhism or any other religion done? Have they provided a savior? Do they punish sin justly? Or they just ignore it? No one has provided anything for your salvation other than the God of the Bible.

Indeed, the ultimate goal of Buddhism is annihilation, rejection of Creation and Being. I don't think many western Buddhists have thought very deeply about how nonsensical and terrible of a goal that is.

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

Indeed, the ultimate goal of Buddhism is annihilation, rejection of Creation and Being. I don't think many western Buddhists have thought very deeply about how nonsensical and terrible of a goal that is.

Sin blinds us terribly.

 

[Lukaris]

Some terrible things have happened to the Jews over the centuries... Ones in living memory include the Holocaust during WW2 and the attacks last year. I remember learning about Anne Francs diaries when I was is school. Awful times.

But according to Christianity, most of those tortured and murdered Jews are roasting in hell as they don't have the necessary faith in Christ's sacrifice..

Isn't this simply unfair and unjust? Is this the best God could come up with?

There is no automatic heaven or hell for non Christians. They will be judged by their works ( Romans 2:6-16). A Christian should not lord anything over a Jew ( or anyone of course) per Romans 11:21-23 etc.