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Sorry, did I question the belief that jellyfish are my ancestors, and what is preached by so called science on the issue?Verification?
Really insulted? I don't think so. However I should point out the even a jellyfish knows more about origins and creation than science. They do not think man came from them. Yet I assume you think you share relatives with them?
You share ancestors?Jellyfish are not in our ancestral line.
Well, you fail at that game then...Showing science is beliefs is the name of the game
Right. Just like common sense used to tell us the sun, moon and stars all went around the earth, and the earth stood still and firm, right?Common sense and reason and logic would do it.
Nope, Projection - you're still all confused...Denial is one of the earmarks of the religion. You display it
They've done nothing of the sort - unless your faulty interpretation of your religion demands it? I do agree that religion does require denial of various sorts - depending on your flavour...Why would I want to do religion? The important thing is exposing origin s called science as lies and fables. Too long have they blasphemed God.
Nope, as defined by reality. Observable, testable reality.Reality as defined by your religion?
And I'm sure many do. Been to Saudi Arabia? Iran? Thailand? Sri Lanka?Nations must do stuff for God...not the other way round.
Not in the Least. Until now, Man had no say in how God punished us in this fallen world - now we've been able to take matters into our own hands and correct what used to be uncorrectable, you don't seem to like it!The consequences of man's choices. When He intervenes and overrules it, such consequences will not exist any more. It is time to admit your error.
No! No, Try it sometime, see how far you get (unless you find a third-world surgery somewhere) before being referred to a psychologist to get assessed as such. Just go into a surgery on a spare day and tell them you want a sex-change operation because you just want to see what it's like. One of two things, you'll be committed for some mental condition (I rate this), or you'll start a lengthy assessment and a criteria hurdling 5 to 10 year exercise of extensive gene & hormone therapy to prepare you for the process of an actual gender change - some of which will require you to dress, act and live as the opposite sex years before a scalpel is even lifted in anger.Exceptions due to defects aside, the sex change operations are for those with other issues than birth defects. Be honest.
Nice of you to acknowledge that...Pointing to the bible to cover greed and sin is nothing new.
...or do what you can, where and when you can. I hope you don't own any apple products, do you? I don't.Great, so stop the world.
Whatever woman was brought before tohe Priest to be judged. Incidentally, do you know what recourse the woman has if the claim winds up false, and she doesn't miscarry?What woman?
Call it names all you like, it's still the same science.No more than tom thumb is science.
Dream on.... It's the best thing to happen to us. I challenge you tho to drop everything you enjoy, go back to eating non man-made bananas, wheat and barley before man modified it, in fact, any food before we got to it (there isn't much left that we haven't severely genetically modified through breeding & selecting) - Drop all the technology you enjoy, fuels you use (besides possibly wood and some oils), drop all the medical technology and treatments derived out of the last 400 years, and see how you go.Modern so called science is destined to be an everlasting blot and shame on the human experience.
No, he doesn't. I just referenced the physical structures, documentation and archaeological evidence that shows us a very different timeline.He has a corroborate witness, well technically about 4 billion of them, as well as physical structures, documentation, archeological evidence .
Righto, part of the bible narrative, then he'll only be famous to people who believe the Bible, that'll be why he doesn't ring a bell...He was a famous person born about 101 years after the flood.
Ahh, now THAT'S a Belief. Radioactive decay rates are not a belief though, they are substantive, tangible, observable and measurable pieces of evidence - as are lake varves showing seasonal runoff, ice cores showing 6 monthly day/night cycles in the trapped permafrost going back literally hundreds of thousands of years, dendrochronology dating back 14,00 years, so on. All are real and observable evidence we can look at and measure today.... unlike the fanciful claims based off your particular interpretations of your particular religious texts.Your beliefs are not evidence. Radioactive dates are only as good as the belief nature was the same.
Well, there seems to be a lot of people that didn't then, The Chinese didn't die, the Indians didn't die, Aboriginals and Africans didn't die - all have cultures, history and written records maintained right throughout the time of this supposed worldwide flood, just as if there wasn't a worldwide flood after all.Since Adam was the first man, not sure who you think would notice? Most of those who would have noticed the flood, noticed that they died in it.
Oh, right. I can't say I've heard of that saying anywhere tbh, but there you go. I found it online as a bible reference, so I guess you'd have to be pretty deep into scripture to have thought it to be the other way around, but you're right, we digress.Chaff is the part of the wheat that is cast off / away as useless and the tares is an all together different plant that looks like wheat.
(Not really reliant to our discussion ) just an interesting side note.
The scientific maethod and peer review only has value if the results are concordant with reality. What bad science has made it to peer review generally gets found out as such, and dropped because, again, no value. What is CS Science, and why would that make anything better?Peer review, can be a good thing for certain but I think science is FINALLY getting to a better point with CS Science its a wonderful new branch of science that will garner much better results because of less political, financial and social biases being involved with the final results.
I don't think disregarding my points of view (or even me as a person tbh) in matters of truth are a bad thing - after all, I want to know true things about our reality while discarding false things of the same just as much. Thank you for the apology nonetheless though, but I don't think it's necessary.I would imagine that one of your main issues / problem with "Religion" is how people act when they try and convince you of the rightness of their position and disregard YOU in the process of that convincing i.e. sometimes people are well intended and go about trying to do "the right thing" in the WRONG way. Sometimes it is NOT what people say but how they say it, and on behalf of all "Christian-dom" those that have acted NOT Christlike towards you I offer my apology, Just because we might disagree does NOT mean we need to be disagreeable.
I get scientific, because that has hard definitions, and can be identified whenever and wherever required - but how would we go about using 'spiritual' tools? What is 'spiritual' to you anyway? The thing with Science, is I could talk my evidence and/or observations to any scientists trained in the field for which I'm researching and they could replicate my research findings, or for that matter, they should be able to recreate the entire experiment, obtaining their own data/measurements/observations and redo the research from the start coming to the same conclusion - this will happen across the board, regardless of race, regligion, nationality, language spoken, etc. but this isn't the same for 'Spiritual' from what I can see - what if I had an experience, documented it in great detail, then discussed it with a spiritual leader of Buddhism, Islam, Christianity, Hinduism and Judaism - I can guarantee I'll have a different conclusion from all of them - heck, I'll have different interpretations to 5 spiritual leaders of the same faith! So somewhere before this 'Spiritual' step, there has to be a way to discern truth from fiction, otherwise it simply becomes a useless exercise. How do we do this?To come to any TRUTH an objective approach needs taken , and whatever evidence is being presented or is available evaluate it on a case by case basis using the best tools at your disposal. Either Spiritual or Scientific discuss your findings with those that you can relate to and you can have some open dialogue and discussions with those that you basically can have mutual respect and understanding with.
Sure. but I think you misunderstand Scientific Theories. A Scientific Theory is already the result of a wide range of tests and supporting results, all that correlate, and none that disprove the theory in question, they wouldn't be scientific theories otherwise. If you note there are quite a few being bandied about, then it's because they are well supported Theories - a Scientific Theory is the pinnacle of Science. It generally (but not always) contains Facts, evidence, scientific laws, other scientific theories, mathematical formula, measurements and observations.As far as not enough evidence there are a LOT of Scientific Theories being moved about some with a preponderance of evidence and some without, but the theory only becomes valid / TRUTH after it is tested and proven TRUE if you are unwilling to test it then you will never know if it is true or not. There are a lot of things Science does not have the answers to yet, but perhaps one day they will. Is "Religion" or God "falsifiable" well depends on who you ask and what "evidence / tools" you use.
Just know that for now those that are "trying to" "Help" you see the light are "trying" to do what they believe is right and they don't mean to insult " Forgive them, for they know, NOT what they do" .
Cool, thank you!Matthew 13:24-30 King James Version (KJV)
24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
No.Right. Just like common sense used to tell us the sun, moon and stars all went around the earth, and the earth stood still and firm, right?
Actual reality and support of a science claim can be posted. You merely recite the words as if running through some ritual on beads or something.Nope, as defined by reality. Observable, testable reality.
I said God...not gods.And I'm sure many do. Been to Saudi Arabia? Iran? Thailand? Sri Lanka?
On your justification on fighting nature...phooey.Not in the Least. Until now, Man had no say in how God punished us in this fallen world - now we've been able to take matters into our own hands and correct what used to be uncorrectable, you don't seem to like it!Well, Tough! We took it on ourselves to fix non-binary gender because it was obvious nobody else will do it... Now, those born half male/female, or both, or neither now have a recourse they didn't before. A prime example of science tackling and overcoming a problem some people never (thought would be/wanted) fixed, depending on your disposition.
I see. So you seem to be saying that part of medical procedure today is spending years in deep sin.No! No, Try it sometime, see how far you get (unless you find a third-world surgery somewhere) before being referred to a psychologist to get assessed as such. Just go into a surgery on a spare day and tell them you want a sex-change operation because you just want to see what it's like. One of two things, you'll be committed for some mental condition (I rate this), or you'll start a lengthy assessment and a criteria hurdling 5 to 10 year exercise of extensive gene & hormone therapy to prepare you for the process of an actual gender change - some of which will require you to dress, act and live as the opposite sex years before a scalpel is even lifted in anger.
...or do what you can, where and when you can. I hope you don't own any apple products, do you? I don't.
Thank goodness for the right to starve to death I guess.Slightly off-topic, of course given these chinese workers technically have the right to not go to work, just as they do in the states, but I agree that working conditions for those who need to work for whatever reason is still not humane in the least.
I know it is a serious thing to lie to the Holy Spirit. In the new testament we see Ananias and Saphira got a fresh lesson on that.Whatever woman was brought before tohe Priest to be judged. Incidentally, do you know what recourse the woman has if the claim winds up false, and she doesn't miscarry?
Label fables any way you like, it is still not knowledge and fact and science.Call it names all you like, it's still the same science.
Believers may use this world, and we are to try and take care not to abuse it. There is good and evil that has come to the world through science as there is in the medical fields.Dream on.... It's the best thing to happen to us. I challenge you tho to drop everything you enjoy, go back to eating non man-made bananas, wheat and barley before man modified it, in fact, any food before we got to it (there isn't much left that we haven't severely genetically modified through breeding & selecting) - Drop all the technology you enjoy, fuels you use (besides possibly wood and some oils), drop all the medical technology and treatments derived out of the last 400 years, and see how you go.
No problem.Righto, part of the bible narrative, then he'll only be famous to people who believe the Bible, that'll be why he doesn't ring a bell...
Radioactivity and decay are quite real and do happen...today.Ahh, now THAT'S a Belief. Radioactive decay rates are not a belief though, they are substantive, tangible, observable and measurable pieces of evidence - as are lake varves showing seasonal runoff, ice cores showing 6 monthly day/night cycles in the trapped permafrost going back literally hundreds of thousands of years, dendrochronology dating back 14,00 years, so on.
Were they before Egypt? Ha.Well, there seems to be a lot of people that didn't then, The Chinese didn't die, the Indians didn't die, Aboriginals and Africans didn't die - all have cultures, history and written records maintained right throughout the time of this supposed worldwide flood, just as if there wasn't a worldwide flood after all.
.....BAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHahahahahahaha! Cognitive Dissonance much?
I've posted you references and links to the evidence, you just won't acknowledge it and demand it's all lies - even though we get useful predictive results from that science all the time... You make me laugh!Actual reality and support of a science claim can be posted. You merely recite the words as if running through some ritual on beads or something.
Yours is one of many, many gods. It wasn't the first by far, and won't be the last. Deal with it.I said God...not gods.
so no comeback then? Noted.On your justification on fighting nature...phooey.
Sin? Isn't that specific to your religion? It only applies to you and believers of such a demonstrably incorrect doctrine. I'm not even convinced your God exists, so if he wants me to abide by such subjective & arbitrary rules, then he ought to let me know he exists.I see. So you seem to be saying that part of medical procedure today is spending years in deep sin.
Correct - and of course you'd be remiss to not exercise due diligence to ensure you aren't supporting such entities, surely you do, right?Ha. I am not sure that all other companies are pure as the driven snow either.
it's a free world... unless you have a God to worship for eternity...Thank goodness for the right to starve to death I guess.
non-sequitur. What is the woman's recourse if she doesn't miscarry after drinking the bitter waters for the accusation of infidelity?I know it is a serious thing to lie to the Holy Spirit. In the new testament we see Ananias and Saphira got a fresh lesson on that.
Well, you're demonstrably wrong. I'm going with the science. All of it.Label fables any way you like, it is still not knowledge and fact and science.
bible gives us good and evil too - in fact, your God lays claim to having created it. If he loves us, why would he bestow us with evil too?Believers may use this world, and we are to try and take care not to abuse it. There is good and evil that has come to the world through science as there is in the medical fields.
I think you misunderstand - Peleg is a fictional character - or is of so little importance as to have missed out on all of the written and archaeological records we have ever found for all of the cultures we've ever unearthed. Show me any extra-biblical record of such a ruler in history please.No problem.
I find his time quite interesting. In his days, the earth was divided. In his days Noah lived still. In his days, by many accounts the tower of Babel happened. In his days lifespans of mankind took a nosedive of incredible proportions. (some have said that was at the time of the flood, but a simple graph shows it was in Peleg's time) In his days Greece, and Egypt and Babylon had their start! And, I deduce that probably in his days also the nature change on earth happened!
they also happened billions and billions of years ago, which we can literally see in real time today whenever we swing a telescope to the night sky. There's the evidence you don't want to acknowledge - that we can see it the same as it happened billions of years ago.Radioactivity and decay are quite real and do happen...today.
You need to prove nature was the same to have it happen in the far past though. Same with the deposition rate/methods of varves or ice. Trees used to grow in weeks, so rings at that time were not representing the seasonal yearly time that they now grow in in this present state/nature.
Claiming otherwise is unsupportable.
Maybe. The cradle of civilisation is not considered to be a single place, because it seems to have developed independently several times at several places, both middle east and Asia being just two of. The middle east has been long associated with the cradle of civilisation, as has both India and China, and there are quite a few scholars and archaeologists following that at the very least, bronze metallurgy and agriculture (if not the people themselves) were shared among them as early as 2300bce. Using China as one example, the western asian rulers of the northern egyptian territories (Hyksos), who invaded, settled there and either appropriated these technologies when they were eventually expelled back to Asia/China, and/or took egyptian natives with them is a prime well-substantiated historical record. Nobody doubts that they came to ancient egypt as asians before incorporating each others' civilisation techniques and reappropriating that combined civilisation as their own in both Asia and Ancient Egypt (and possibly India along the way).Were they before Egypt? Ha.
Evidence for what? Chinese being Chinese before civilisation? Sure!You have no evidence do you? Yet you can't admit it.
Chapter and verse?.....BAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHahahahahahaha! Cognitive Dissonance much?It's even in your bible! Unless of course, it's an Allegory and not meant Literally?? lol
Calling unfounded beliefs evidence doesn't change anything.I've posted you references and links to the evidence, you just won't acknowledge it and demand it's all lies - even though we get useful predictive results from that science all the time... You make me laugh!
Says you. I do not call demons God.Yours is one of many, many gods.
Correct - and of course you'd be remiss to not exercise due diligence to ensure you aren't supporting such entities, surely you do, right?
Looks like we have a different definition or worship also.it's a free world... unless you have a God to worship for eternity...
non-sequitur. What is the woman's recourse if she doesn't miscarry after drinking the bitter waters for the accusation of infidelity?
bible gives us good and evil too - in fact, your God lays claim to having created it. If he loves us, why would he bestow us with evil too?
No. He is in the record. Not sure what records you think he should be in that predate Egypt?I think you misunderstand - Peleg is a fictional character
they also happened billions and billions of years ago, which we can literally see in real time today whenever we swing a telescope to the night sky.
Maybe. The cradle of civilisation is not considered to be a single place, because it seems to have developed independently several times at several places, both middle east and Asia being just two of. The middle east has been long associated with the cradle of civilisation, as has both India and China, and there are quite a few scholars and archaeologists following that at the very least, bronze metallurgy and agriculture (if not the people themselves) were shared among them as early as 2300bce. Using China as one example, the western asian rulers of the northern egyptian territories (Hyksos), who invaded, settled there and either appropriated these technologies when they were eventually expelled back to Asia/China, and/or took egyptian natives with them is a prime well-substantiated historical record. Nobody doubts that they came to ancient egypt as asians before incorporating each others' civilisation techniques and reappropriating that combined civilisation as their own in both Asia and Ancient Egypt (and possibly India along the way).
Evidence for what? Chinese being Chinese before civilisation? Sure!
I like our talks, dad...I learn new things all the time while debunking your nefarious and unsubstantiated claims...
Take your pick - from : http://www.testingtheglobe.com/bible.html - there's too much to copy/paste. Do you interpret any of these to mean a literal firmament with windows to let in/shut out the rain, on an earth set upon foundational molten pillars?Chapter and verse?
Of course not - the Evidence is what does it - that's why I want you to address the Evidence!Calling unfounded beliefs evidence doesn't change anything.
Satanists would say the other way round. Same with Islam and Judaism. How do you know you have the God and they have Demons beside your opinion? In fact, how do you even know Gods and Demons are real?Says you. I do not call demons God.
so you don't bother then? Noted. If only we could get a few million people like you to think differently, you'd make a massive difference. Irony of the highest order.Not really. We can make an effort, but the whole world lies in sin, so we should not expect that a boycott will save the planet or anyone else.
Well, I don't worship, so not particularly fussed - but it is mentioned that this would be your eternal task on arriving in heaven.Looks like we have a different definition or worship also.
Nope. there's no mention of her opinion being considered anywhere. Biblically, her testimony is only half that of his, so his say so is all the Priest would care about. So if I suspected my wife of infidelity for whatever reason I thought, and I take her to the priest to be forced that bitter water cocktail that would make her unwell enough to cause a miscarry - and she didn't abort her pregnancy, but just got sick for a few days, then all good? Her fault for being a woman?You mean what WAS her recourse. That was written to ancient Israel. I think her best option would be truth.
Do you beat your wife and kids so they know how good they have it? That's absolutely Asinine.Maybe to appreciate the good. Who knows all His reasons? If it was never dark how would we appreciate the light?
No he isn't, he's only in the Bible. Same with Moses and Noah. King Nebuchadnezzar and his failed prophet made it into history though...No. He is in the record. Not sure what records you think he should be in that predate Egypt?
Not at all. you have no evidence for your magical state past for a start, and all the measurements, observations and evidence we have (you know, ALL the support) would only correlate if there was the same state past as there is now. I know you'll fail to grasp why, you always do.You see it in what you call real time. In other words fishbowl time. Time here on earth. The billions of years thing is your belief only and based on the unsupportable assumption time is the same in all the universe.
Well the evidence indicates otherwise.People spread out after the tower of Babel.
Naturally several civilizations started to spring up.
Right...(?) I said that - don't you read my responses?? What does it take to make a civilisation - perhaps people already in the area? I tell you what doesn't happen though, people who speak different languages don't all wander off to different parts of the world. Wherever they are, will become multicultural and they all tend to speak and learn each others' languages until or unless one language becomes prominent from among them. You then also have to account for why we can trace back all the various languages as they evolve from previous languages for as long as we've had written history. At no point did they all just appear at once.From your second link..
(talking of China and Egypt)
" I would say that both civilizations are of the same age."
Let's go with a figure of speech on this one.Do you interpret any of these to mean a literal firmament with windows to let in/shut out the rain, on an earth set upon foundational molten pillars?
so not literal after all?Let's go with a figure of speech on this one.
How about ... by "windows" ... God means an insertion (or arrival) point, preset by Him before Earth was even created, for the points on the earth by which the waters "above the firmament" are to return?
That would be correct.so not literal after all?
Let's go with a figure of speech on this one.
How about ... by "windows" ... God means an insertion (or arrival) point, preset by Him before Earth was even created, for the points on the earth by which the waters "above the firmament" are to return?
You've been reading Strong's Concordance, haven't you?Scripturally, Adam's firmament, which God called Heaven, was a solid expanse with a metallic like covering or boundary of Adam's entire Universe. This solid firmament had windows in the top of it. When the windows on high were opened, it rained for 40 days and nights and the bottom half of Adam's firmament filled with water and sank. This released the 450 ft long Ark into the Lake 11k years ago in Lake Van, Turkey, in the mountains of Ararat. That's God's Truth.
Yes. My opinion is that 'wormhole/stargate/cosmic taps' sort of portals were opened in our time and space connecting to the region outside our 'known universe', where waters above the firmament were at the time.Take your pick - from : http://www.testingtheglobe.com/bible.html - there's too much to copy/paste. Do you interpret any of these to mean a literal firmament with windows to let in/shut out the rain, on an earth set upon foundational molten pillars?
God came to earth to prove it by dying for us and also fulfilling hundreds and hundreds of precise prophesies about Him coming.Satanists would say the other way round. Same with Islam and Judaism. How do you know you have the God and they have Demons beside your opinion? In fact, how do you even know Gods and Demons are real?
Well, that is a bit like saying it is my eternal job to love my mom and dad who will be there also. Not really, it is just a facet of life there, lots of love everywhere. The folks there will always remember what Jesus did for us, and love Him t bits. Many cal that worship.Well, I don't worship, so not particularly fussed - but it is mentioned that this would be your eternal task on arriving in heaven.
The issue is not man or woman, but adultery and lying to God in that ancient nation that was set up to prepare the way.Nope. there's no mention of her opinion being considered anywhere. Biblically, her testimony is only half that of his, so his say so is all the Priest would care about. So if I suspected my wife of infidelity for whatever reason I thought, and I take her to the priest to be forced that bitter water cocktail that would make her unwell enough to cause a miscarry - and she didn't abort her pregnancy, but just got sick for a few days, then all good? Her fault for being a woman?
Flood stories of various kinds involving a big boat and mankind being saved abound. Now Moses was a great man of Egypt that brought a great defeat and humiliation to the nation so it is no surprise they tried to erase the memory!No he isn't, he's only in the Bible. Same with Moses and Noah. King Nebuchadnezzar and his failed prophet made it into history though...
There is some debate about what leader was there at the Exodus. I could zoom in and maybe make an educated guess, but that is another thread. One clue I would look for in dating Egypt is life spans. We could look at the dropping life spans of man listed in the bible, and get approx dates! Far better than so called science/same state past based dates.Here, Start with this list & point out where you think your biblical characters lived and major events occurred:
Oh, Maybe you could point out why the ENTIRE CIVILISATION of ANCIENT EGYPT doesn't ever reference your God, not even once?
However it looks to your circular religion in the fishbowl, the bottom line is that science does not know the state of nature in the past.Not at all. you have no evidence for your magical state past for a start, and all the measurements, observations and evidence we have (you know, ALL the support) would only correlate if there was the same state past as there is now. I know you'll fail to grasp why, you always do.
Right...(?) I said that - don't you read my responses?? What does it take to make a civilisation - perhaps people already in the area? I tell you what doesn't happen though, people who speak different languages don't all wander off to different parts of the world.
History is after the fact! There are no records for the time of Babel except the record God preserved and handed down! Men in my opinion possibly never even had written..anything...before Babel, as there was such superior communication then.Wherever they are, will become multicultural and they all tend to speak and learn each others' languages until or unless one language becomes prominent from among them. You then also have to account for why we can trace back all the various languages as they evolve from previous languages for as long as we've had written history. At no point did they all just appear at once.
You've been reading Strong's Concordance, haven't you?
History is after the fact! There are no records for the time of Babel except the record God preserved and handed down! Men in my opinion possibly never even had written..anything...before Babel, as there was such superior communication then.
By the time man started to need to draw pictures to communicate, and later progressed to writing, Babel was long gone, and we were well into this present state.nature!
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