The Investigative Judgment

[Lysimachus]

stinsonmarri,

Thank you and I appreciate for your detailed study. That was helpful.

However, could I make one small request?

Please use the names "Jesus", and "God", without having to sound so Rabbanical saying "Yashua", "Elohim", and "Yahweh". Ellen White never used this terminology.

Whenever I see people using this language, and are afraid to use the names "Jesus", or "God", I picture the person wearing a long beard with long robes, tassels, and swinging a censer-- a mental picture of "fanaticism" conjures up in my mind.

We want good ol' Adventism--all our pioneers did not use this terminology. They spoke in plain English.

When you start talking fancy like that, it turns off many new people away from the truth because the first thing that pops into their mind is "Judaism", or "Old Testament laws".

Here is an excellent article against the "sacred name" movement:
The Holy Name: Yahweh & Yehoshua

God bless,

Lysimachus

 

[rainbowinthesky]

I agree.

rainbow

 

[Stryder06]

Hey Guys, can you all keep me in prayer. I've been slacking off in my study and I'm finding it hard to start back up. Thank you in advance.

 

[Lysimachus]

I will indeed pray for you Stryder.

Do you want me to recommend some excellent books for you? I've compiled a list of the best of the best that support Adventism.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Hey Guys, can you all keep me in prayer. I've been slacking off in my study and I'm finding it hard to start back up. Thank you in advance.

Prayers gone up...don't be too hard on yourself brother, you don't want the spirit of discouragement to let Satan get a foothold, just start off slow, reading even a chapter a day or even a devotional a day. Most inportantly, don't neglect your morning and evening prayers.

God bless and Sabbath blessings !!!

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

I will indeed pray for you Stryder.

Do you want me to recommend some excellent books for you? I've compiled a list of the best of the best that support Adventism.

That might be an excellent thread to start... if you list up what you have compiled we can see if we can get it permanently placed at the top as a sticky...

 

[Stryder06]

I will indeed pray for you Stryder.

Do you want me to recommend some excellent books for you? I've compiled a list of the best of the best that support Adventism.

That would be nice.

I've been stuck on trying to correlate the laver with the foot washing service we have at communion. I believe that just as the Priests needed to be cleansed continually before going before God to minister, the foot washing represents a similar type of perpetual cleansing. Does that make sense?

 

[Stryder06]

Prayers gone up...don't be too hard on yourself brother, you don't want the spirit of discouragement to let Satan get a foothold, just start off slow, reading even a chapter a day or even a devotional a day. Most inportantly, don't neglect your morning and evening prayers.

God bless and Sabbath blessings !!!

Very much appreciated.

 

[E.T.Elijah]

I will indeed pray for you Stryder.

Do you want me to recommend some excellent books for you? I've compiled a list of the best of the best that support Adventism.

That might be an excellent thread to start... if you list up what you have compiled we can see if we can get it permanently placed at the top as a sticky...

I would love this as well. I have a pretty decent library of books I've collected over the years also. I am always looking to expand it. I tend to like to gain as much insight as I can on any particular topic. I think this would be a great asset for new and old Adventists. Let me know and I can also list what I've come across that has helped in my studies.

 

[OntheDL]

Gotta love the pen of inspiration....

Have you read EJ Waggoners book 'Christ and His Righteousness'? It was this book that took adventism from prophesy and the Law to the merits of Christ for our salvation. If Adventists had of embraced this message, we are told that the preparations for Christs return would have been put in motion.

That statement needs correction. Biblically(Rev 10), our message of righteousness by faith via the understanding of the Sanctuary was established during the weeks immediately followed the eve of the Great Disappointing. And the understanding originated with Hiram Edson.

AT Jones and EJ Waggoner presented nothing new.

"I have had the question asked, `What do you think of this light that these men [A.T. Jones and E.J. Waggoner] are presenting?' Why I have been presenting it to you for the last forty-five years, ---the matchless charms of Christ. This is what I have been trying to present before your minds."-E.G.W., Sermon at Rome, New York, June 17, 1889, Manuscript 5, 1889.

AT Jones and EG Waggoner polarized the denomination and pushed it ever closer to the edge of apostasy. I'd be very careful with their books especially of those written in the 1890s as they both went under the mystic spell of Dr. Kellogg.

 

[Lysimachus]

Alrighty folks, I'll give you some super books--the best out there that defend our pillars:

- The Certainty of the Third Angel's Message - by Louis F. Were

- Islam and Christianity in Prophecy - by Tim Roosenberg (just released)

- Futurism's Incredible Journey - by Stephen P. Bohr

- Prophetic Toolchest for Dismantling the Dispensational Delusion (550 pages, online PDF only for free) - by D. S. Farris

- The Use and Abuse of Prophecy - by Edwin De Kock

- The Truth About 666 and the Story of the Great Apostasy (3 Volumes in one, 900 pages, 2011) - by Edwin de Kock (just being released in print, but presently purchasable in PDF digital format)

- The Seven Heads and Ten Horns in Daniel and the Revelation - by Edwin de Kock (just released in digital format)

- Christ and Antichrist in Prophecy and History (2007) - by Edwin de Kock

- The Silencing of Satan - by Bradly R. Williams

The following by Heidi Heiks were released last year:

- AD 508 538 1798 1843 Source Book (Preliminary) - by Heidi Heiks

- AD 508 Source Book (222 pages) - by Heidi Heiks

- AD 538 Source Book (323 pages) - by Heidi Heiks

- AD 1798 1843 Source Book (188 pages) - by Heidi Heiks

- The "Daily" Source Book - by Heidi Heiks

- Feast-Keeping and the Faithful - by Ron du Preez (just released)

- Deeper: Investigating the Integrity of Our Prophetic Foundations - by Eugene Prewitt

- End-Time Delusions - by Steve Wohlberg​

I have a lot more, but these are just a few of some of the best.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

That statement needs correction. Biblically(Rev 10), our message of righteousness by faith via the understanding of the Sanctuary was established during the weeks immediately followed the eve of the Great Disappointing. And the understanding originated with Hiram Edson.

AT Jones and EJ Waggoner presented nothing new.

"I have had the question asked, `What do you think of this light that these men [A.T. Jones and E.J. Waggoner] are presenting?' Why I have been presenting it to you for the last forty-five years, ---the matchless charms of Christ. This is what I have been trying to present before your minds."-E.G.W., Sermon at Rome, New York, June 17, 1889, Manuscript 5, 1889.

AT Jones and EG Waggoner polarized the denomination and pushed it ever closer to the edge of apostasy. I'd be very careful with their books especially of those written in the 1890s as they both went under the mystic spell of Dr. Kellogg.

They may have not presented anything new but the majority of Adventists did not understadnd the concept of Christ's centrality to their sanctification. Sister White spoke very highly of both these gentlemen and the message they had... she also acknowledged that they were ill thought of because of their view on the law in Galatians.

I believe without a doubt that God has given precious truth at the right time to Brother Jones and Brother Waggoner. Do I place them as infallible? Do I say that they will not make a statement or have an idea that cannot be questioned or that cannot be error? Do I say so? No, I do not say any such thing. Nor do I say that of any man in the world. But I do say God has sent light, and do be careful how you treat it." Ellen G. White 1888 Materials, 566

Yes both men eventually did depart from the faith but so did other great pioneers that God used for His purpose ie: Miller and Smith, Kellog et al.

Here's the quote from sister White where she rebukes the leadership and laity for rejecting the 1888 message...

I saw that Jones and Waggoner had their counterparts in Joshua and Caleb as the children of Israel stoned the spies with literal stones of sarcasm and ridicule… I saw that you (the Adventist leadership present at this conference) willfully rejected what you know to be truth, just because it was too humiliating to your dignity. I saw some of you in your tents mincing and making all manner of fun of these two brethren (Jones and Waggoner). I also saw that if you had accepted their message, we would have been in the kingdom in two years from that date (1888), but now we have to go back into the wilderness…” (General Conference Bulletin, May 7th)

 

[Lysimachus]

I saw that Jones and Waggoner had their counterparts in Joshua and Caleb as the children of Israel stoned the spies with literal stones of sarcasm and ridicule… I saw that you (the Adventist leadership present at this conference) willfully rejected what you know to be truth, just because it was too humiliating to your dignity. I saw some of you in your tents mincing and making all manner of fun of these two brethren (Jones and Waggoner). I also saw that if you had accepted their message, we would have been in the kingdom in two years from that date (1888), but now we have to go back into the wilderness…” (General Conference Bulletin, May 7th)

I remember my dad quoting this statement once years ago. My question is, why can't I find it in the EGW CD-Rom?

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

I remember my dad quoting this statement once years ago. My question is, why can't I find it in the EGW CD-Rom?

I don't think the CD has GC Bulletins listed.... I can't find them on mine.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Here's a link to the GC archives... I can't search them because the plugin required to view the bulletins isn't supported by 64 bit browsers.

General Conference Archives

 

[OntheDL]

They may have not presented anything new but the majority of Adventists did not understadnd the concept of Christ's centrality to their sanctification. Sister White spoke very highly of both these gentlemen and the message they had... she also acknowledged that they were ill thought of because of their view on the law in Galatians.

Yes both men eventually did depart from the faith but so did other great pioneers that God used for His purpose ie: Miller and Smith, Kellog et al.

Here's the quote from sister White where she rebukes the leadership and laity for rejecting the 1888 message...

I'd say the 1888 controversy isn't exactly what it appears to be. IMO, there was a controversy hidden below the surface of the apparent one.

Ellen White wrote that they had been in the loud cry since 1844. So that means the righteousness by faith message had been preached since the Great Disappointment. If the church at large had heeded the testimonies, the advent would have been greatly hastened. But the church has been Laodicean since 1844. And Ellen White also saw not 1 in 100 during her time understood the plan of salvation. The Laodiceans were never going to accept the message.

I think God 'used' Jones and Waggoner to bring the matter to a dividing point. Had the Laodiceans repented and accepted long standing call, God would have given the spirit. That's on the surface. No problem there.

However IMO, the Devil also used Jones and Waggoner to advance his agenda by pushing the denomination closer to the edge of apostasy. God allowed it to happen.

We see the result that the church at large rejected Ellen White that she had to exile herself to Australia. The Alpha apostasy originated with Dr. Kellogg that introduced spiritualism into the church that also led to the rejection of the spirit of prophecy.

Jones and Waggoner's polarizing acts paved ways for the in-roads of spiritualism that is incompatible with spirit of prophecy. The denomination had never openly rejected the testimonies until now. Its pendulum swung from the right to the more dangerous left. And we saw how quickly Jones and Waggoner fell away within the space of a couple of years into the control of Dr. Kellogg's mysticism. Yes, many of our pioneers fell away but none had done this much damage.

The Omega of this apostasy is the deadliest because of its subtlety. The ones under its influence are not aware of it. And now this influence has a firm gripe on the church. The church has been promoting the Jones and Waggoner's books. That makes me weary. I just want to caution those who might venture into the unknown. Be ware of the books written in the 1890s.

Hope I made my thoughts clear.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

I'd say the 1888 controversy isn't exactly what it appears to be. IMO, there was a controversy hidden below the surface of the apparent one.

Ellen White wrote that they had been in the loud cry since 1844. So that means the righteousness by faith message had been preached since the Great Disappointment. If the church at large had heeded the testimonies, the advent would have been greatly hastened. But the church has been Laodicean since 1844. And Ellen White also saw not 1 in 100 during her time understood the plan of salvation. The Laodiceans were never going to accept the message.

I think God 'used' Jones and Waggoner to bring the matter to a dividing point. Had the Laodiceans repented and accepted long standing call, God would have given the spirit. That's on the surface. No problem there.

However IMO, the Devil also used Jones and Waggoner to advance his agenda by pushing the denomination closer to the edge of apostasy. God allowed it to happen.

We see the result that the church at large rejected Ellen White that she had to exile herself to Australia. The Alpha apostasy originated with Dr. Kellogg that introduced spiritualism into the church that also led to the rejection of the spirit of prophecy.

Jones and Waggoner's polarizing acts paved ways for the in-roads of spiritualism that is incompatible with spirit of prophecy. The denomination had never openly rejected the testimonies until now. Its pendulum swung from the right to the more dangerous left. And we saw how quickly Jones and Waggoner fell away within the space of a couple of years into the control of Dr. Kellogg's mysticism. Yes, many of our pioneers fell away but none had done this much damage.

The Omega of this apostasy is the deadliest because of its subtlety. The ones under its influence are not aware of it. And now this influence has a firm gripe on the church. The church has been promoting the Jones and Waggoner's books. That makes me weary. I just want to caution those who might venture into the unknown. Be ware of the books written in the 1890s.

Hope I made my thoughts clear.

Well said DL... we definitely need to allow the Spirit to show us how to navigate the minefield of our faith.

 

[Stryder06]

Alrighty folks, I'll give you some super books--the best out there that defend our pillars:

- The Certainty of the Third Angel's Message - by Louis F. Were

- Islam and Christianity in Prophecy - by Tim Roosenberg (just released)

- Futurism's Incredible Journey - by Stephen P. Bohr

- Prophetic Toolchest for Dismantling the Dispensational Delusion (550 pages, online PDF only for free) - by D. S. Farris

- The Use and Abuse of Prophecy - by Edwin De Kock

- The Truth About 666 and the Story of the Great Apostasy (3 Volumes in one, 900 pages, 2011) - by Edwin de Kock (just being released in print, but presently purchasable in PDF digital format)

- The Seven Heads and Ten Horns in Daniel and the Revelation - by Edwin de Kock (just released in digital format)

- Christ and Antichrist in Prophecy and History (2007) - by Edwin de Kock

- The Silencing of Satan - by Bradly R. Williams

The following by Heidi Heiks were released last year:

- AD 508 538 1798 1843 Source Book (Preliminary) - by Heidi Heiks

- AD 508 Source Book (222 pages) - by Heidi Heiks

- AD 538 Source Book (323 pages) - by Heidi Heiks

- AD 1798 1843 Source Book (188 pages) - by Heidi Heiks

- The "Daily" Source Book - by Heidi Heiks

- Feast-Keeping and the Faithful - by Ron du Preez (just released)

- Deeper: Investigating the Integrity of Our Prophetic Foundations - by Eugene Prewitt

- End-Time Delusions - by Steve Wohlberg​

I have a lot more, but these are just a few of some of the best.

LOL @ "...just a few"
Thanks for the resources

 

[gamaliel11]

gracias por este material

 

[Castaway57]

gracias por este material

None of this material does us any good whatsoever, without the Bible.

The Bible is the first book, and the most essential book of our faith. All of our official doctrines can be well demonstrated using the Bible alone. (Psalms 119:105).

Especially is the Bible good for showing the Investigative/Pre-Advent Judgment.

​