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Glad to see you back Devin.Hi Dave, good to see you. I was referring to killing sinners for sinning, and such laws. Not the 10 commandments. Sorry it was ambiguous.
I don’t even know how you are using the Oracle.
I think God is very explicit in revealing himself to mankind.
Word of the LORD
Word of God
Thus saith the LORD
Not to mention the Incarnation.
What do you trust. Let’s start there.I think it’s cool that you hold human beings in such high regard. I just have to leave room in my own mind to ponder if it’s possible such human beings either messed up something accidentally or on purpose. I’m not by any means saying they did I’m just saying if it’s possible I wanna take note.
What do you trust then?So a piece of paper, or page from the bible, floated down from the sky in all of those occasions of the verses you quoted? Then they were later collected into a binder with the label "the bible" on it?
Or perhaps the word of the Lord is something else besides words on paper.
Glad to see you back Devin.
I made the distinction between prophecy and poetry. There are some that can meet the two. Like this guy.
How do we know the words spoken by Jesus? How did the Holy Spirit accomplish this? What does your personal canon look like?
But the bible contains no text that claims that "what the bible says God says" and when you consider that Satan speaks in a few places and that men speak in many places and women in many places in the bible it is obvious that the idea that "what the bible says God says" is seriously flawed.
Must have taken him years to put those concepts together in song. Not to mention the nice Walmart looking polo shirt.Makes me want to store a cache of weapons and food, LOL
Now you're the one being nitpicky.
God can be said to be the author of all Scripture. But not necessarily the speaker.
Their personal accounts is how we got the Gospel message.We have witnesses, or people who knew the witnesses recording the events surrounding Jesus and statements they heard him say, but that still doesn't mean that those witnesses were infallible. Their personal accounts do not need to be infallible for the gospel message to be true.
What do you trust then?
What did John Wesley trust as the infallible words of God?
It's not "what" I trust, but "who" I trust and who I trust is the *person* of Jesus Christ who is the living Word of God who is God.
As far as Wesley, his definition does not match yours. Per the Articles of Methodist doctrine (put into place by Wesley and originating from the Anglican Church)
The Holy Scripture containeth all things necessary to salvation; so that whatsoever is not read therein, nor may be proved thereby, is not to be required of any man that it should be believed as an article of faith, or be thought requisite or necessary to salvation (Articles of Religion, Article V).
I believe that the only infallible human being was Jesus (and he didn't write any of the books in the bible) so if that's some sort of insult to the bible writers, then they'll just need to get over it since I don't believe them to be God. God is God and only God is infallible.
The apostles did not have the gifts and fruits of the Holy Spirit?
What do you trust. Let’s start there.[/QUOT
What do you trust then?
What did John Wesley trust as the infallible words of God?
It's not "what" I trust, but "who" I trust and who I trust is the *person* of Jesus Christ who is the living Word of God who is God.
As far as Wesley, his definition does not match yours. Per the Articles of Methodist doctrine (put into place by Wesley and originating from the Anglican Church)
The Holy Scripture containeth all things necessary to salvation; so that whatsoever is not read therein, nor may be proved thereby, is not to be required of any man that it should be believed as an article of faith, or be thought requisite or necessary to salvation (Articles of Religion, Article V).
Of course, you could always just pull short quotes from his sermons or other writings out of context just like people do with scripture to try to "prove" that Wesley believed the bible to be God vs. infallible to the purpose for which it was written, i.e. salvation.
P.S. Wesley was also not infallible and would not have claimed to be such. He as well would point people towards Christ.
He licensed women to preach, so clearly he did not subscribe to the relatively modern notion that every word was somehow God's own speech act. Otherwise he would have tripped up over certain verses like 1 Timothy 2:12.
While I do not agree with ordaining women, what the Bible says must always be considered on the whole. If one takes a singular verse out of context and misuses it, this is not what the Bible says.
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