The "In Christ" Doctrine

[AVB 2]

I am not a Calvinist. I would not go that far.

John 3:15-16
(15) That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal [aionios] life.
(16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting [aionios] life.​

Jesus said "whosoever" twice not "the elected". Whosoever believes on Him should not perish but have eternal life.

All of the "whosoevers" are the elect. God chooses us unto salvation we do not choose Him, actually we cannot choose Him.

 

[Der Alte]

You join million of others who also believe that God is sovereign over things like the grass of the fields, trees, mountains, sparrows, the weather, and rock badgers but is completely powerless over the sinful free will of mankind. I guess our souls are not in His bailiwick. He sits in heaven wringing His hands hoping that someone somewhere someday will have the inner righteousness to go against their wicked free will and humbly receive Christ.

Not quite the way I would express it but if God had intended mankind to be more like mindless robots He would not have created man with that "sinful free will."

Jeremiah 13:11
(11) For as the girdle cleaveth to the loins of a man, so have I caused to cleave unto me the whole house of Israel and the whole house of Judah, saith the LORD; that they might be unto me for a people, and for a name, and for a praise, and for a glory: but they would not hear.
Jeremiah 13:11-14
(11) For as the girdle cleaveth to the loins of a man, so have I caused to cleave unto me the whole house of Israel and the whole house of Judah, saith the LORD; that they might be unto me for a people, and for a name, and for a praise, and for a glory: but they would not hear.
(12) Therefore thou shalt speak unto them this word; Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Every bottle shall be filled with wine: and they shall say unto thee, Do we not certainly know that every bottle shall be filled with wine?
(13) Then shalt thou say unto them, Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will fill all the inhabitants of this land, even the kings that sit upon David's throne, and the priests, and the prophets, and all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, with drunkenness.
(14) And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.

Matthew 7:21-24
(21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
(22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
(23) And then will I profess unto them, [the many] I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Romans 1:24
(24) Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Romans 1:26
(26) For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Romans 1:28
(28) And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;​

 

[Der Alte]

All of the "whosoevers" are the elect. God chooses us unto salvation we do not choose Him, actually we cannot choose Him.

"Whosoever" occurs 183 times in the Bible. I can't find any other occurrence where it means a select few.

 

[AVB 2]

"Whosoever" occurs 183 times in the Bible. I can't find any other occurrence where it means a select few.

Free will occurs 16 times in the bible. All 16 times are in the Old Testament. All 16 times it is followed by the singular word "offering." I can't find any other occurrence where it means that man by his free will can choose God.

 

[AVB 2]

Not quite the way I would express it but if God had intended mankind to be more like mindless robots He would not have created man with that "sinful free will."

Jeremiah 13:11
(11) For as the girdle cleaveth to the loins of a man, so have I caused to cleave unto me the whole house of Israel and the whole house of Judah, saith the LORD; that they might be unto me for a people, and for a name, and for a praise, and for a glory: but they would not hear.
Jeremiah 13:11-14
(11) For as the girdle cleaveth to the loins of a man, so have I caused to cleave unto me the whole house of Israel and the whole house of Judah, saith the LORD; that they might be unto me for a people, and for a name, and for a praise, and for a glory: but they would not hear.
(12) Therefore thou shalt speak unto them this word; Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Every bottle shall be filled with wine: and they shall say unto thee, Do we not certainly know that every bottle shall be filled with wine?
(13) Then shalt thou say unto them, Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will fill all the inhabitants of this land, even the kings that sit upon David's throne, and the priests, and the prophets, and all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, with drunkenness.
(14) And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.

Matthew 7:21-24
(21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
(22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
(23) And then will I profess unto them, [the many] I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Romans 1:24
(24) Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Romans 1:26
(26) For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Romans 1:28
(28) And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;​

An EXCELLENT response!!! Man's "free" will is shown as it actually is! Wicked sinful selfish and Godless. I'm still looking for those that shows that man's "free" will is sweet, kind, merciful, righteous, seeking for God, compassionate, loving and wanting to do what is right.

It was Adam and Eve's "free" will that plunged mankind into sin. It was Paul's "free" will that drove him to persecute Christians. It was King David's "free" will to commit adultery and then murder the woman's husband to cover it up.

 

[Der Alte]

Free will occurs 16 times in the bible. All 16 times are in the Old Testament. All 16 times it is followed by the singular word "offering." I can't find any other occurrence where it means that man by his free will can choose God.

That's one way of looking at it but IMHO not conclusive. In Jeremiah God said, "I caused to cleave unto me the whole house of Israel and the whole house of Judah," That was God's will in the most emphatic it could be expressed. Notice there is a "but" there indicating they did not do what God wanted them to. "but they would not hear" then God said "I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them."
Were Israel and Judah exercising "freewill" or was that something else?
The phrase "whosoever will" occurs 23 times in the Bible that seems to indicate some kind of personal will.

 

[AVB 2]

That's one way of looking at it but IMHO not conclusive. In Jeremiah God said, "I caused to cleave unto me the whole house of Israel and the whole house of Judah," That was God's will in the most emphatic it could be expressed. Notice there is a "but" there indicating they did not do what God wanted them to. "but they would not hear" then God said "I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them."
Were Israel and Judah exercising "freewill" or was that something else?
The phrase "whosoever will" occurs 23 times in the Bible that seems to indicate some kind of personal will.

Yes, they exercised "free" will. When man uses his "free" will it is usually diametrically opposite of the will they don't want to follow which is God's will. There are numerous examples in the bible, the first in Genesis 2 where Adam and Eve were directly commanded by God when He said "you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.” Then we have a number of other examples from both the OT and the NT where people thought that their "free" will was a better option than following God's will. They were wrong every time. David and Bathsheba, Samson, Saul, Aaron, the Hebrews in the wilderness and later on also, Jonah, the Apostle Paul before his Damascus road experience and so forth.

A definition of "free" is as follows: 1. not under the control or in the power of another; able to act or be done as one wishes. 2. not or no longer confined or imprisoned. What man is "not under the control or in the power of another?" There are only two kinds of people on earth, and both are under a "power" whether they want to admit or or not. Ephesians 2:2 speak of both of them. "...you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience." The unsaved are still under this "prince of the power of the air" so they can only use their "free" will to sin only. They cannot ever choose to do any righteousness or be righteous in God's eyes. Christians are "free in Christ" because of the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit but still have a "free" will to disobey.

 

[RobertPate]

Free will occurs 16 times in the bible. All 16 times are in the Old Testament. All 16 times it is followed by the singular word "offering." I can't find any other occurrence where it means that man by his free will can choose God.

How about this.

"For whosoever (meaning all, anyone, everyone) that shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.

 

[AVB 2]

How about this.

"For whosoever (meaning all, anyone, everyone) that shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.

The book of Romans was written by the Apostle Paul to whom? Christians in the city of Rome. It was not written to the unsaved because it is like beating a dead horse. Paul has already said in Romans 3:11-12 "There is none who understands; There is none who seeks after God. They have all turned aside; They have together become unprofitable; There is none who does good, no, not one."

That means Mr. Whosoever does not understand, cannot seek for God, has turned aside, is unprofitable and cannot do good. "Calling upon the name of the Lord and seeking Him would definitely rank up there as number one as far as doing something good. But you may say how can Mr. Whosoever be saved if he cannot seek for God? Luke 19:10 "for the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost.” What a perfect situation. God knows those that He has chosen to save, so He seeks and saves them. He even has a name for them; the elect. Mr. Elect was chosen by God.“You didn’t choose me. I chose you. I appointed you to go and produce lasting fruit, so that the Father will give you whatever you ask for, using my name.” (John 15:16) Mr. Elect, since God is seeking him, now draws him to Christ. “For no one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them to me, and at the last day I will raise them up.” (John 6:44.) God never intended to save the children of the flesh. He will only save the children who He calls the children of the promise, as in Romans 9:8 "That is, ... the children of the flesh, are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed."

 

[RobertPate]

The book of Romans was written by the Apostle Paul to whom? Christians in the city of Rome. It was not written to the unsaved because it is like beating a dead horse. Paul has already said in Romans 3:11-12 "There is none who understands; There is none who seeks after God. They have all turned aside; They have together become unprofitable; There is none who does good, no, not one."

That means Mr. Whosoever does not understand, cannot seek for God, has turned aside, is unprofitable and cannot do good. "Calling upon the name of the Lord and seeking Him would definitely rank up there as number one as far as doing something good. But you may say how can Mr. Whosoever be saved if he cannot seek for God? Luke 19:10 "for the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost.” What a perfect situation. God knows those that He has chosen to save, so He seeks and saves them. He even has a name for them; the elect. Mr. Elect was chosen by God.“You didn’t choose me. I chose you. I appointed you to go and produce lasting fruit, so that the Father will give you whatever you ask for, using my name.” (John 15:16) Mr. Elect, since God is seeking him, now draws him to Christ. “For no one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them to me, and at the last day I will raise them up.” (John 6:44.) God never intended to save the children of the flesh. He will only save the children who He calls the children of the promise, as in Romans 9:8 "That is, ... the children of the flesh, are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed."

What you believe makes God divisive and unjust. It is NOT of the faith.

The Holy Spirit is in the world calling everyone to come to Christ. To believe otherwise is to believe that God is unjust.

God is no respecter of anyone's person, Acts 10:34. If he was, he would be unjust.

 

[AVB 2]

Romans 9:8 "...Those who are the children of the flesh, are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed." There are two different fathers for the two different kinds of children, God's children and the children of the flesh (the Devil's children.)

Romans 9:13 "As it is written, “Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.” God's children are spiritual descendants of Abraham Issac and Jacob and He declares that they WILL spend eternity with Him. The descendants of the children of the flesh (the devil) God hates and they will NOT spend eternity in heaven.

Romans 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not! For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.”Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens. You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?” But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, “Why have you made me like this?” Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?

How many sinners deserve justice? Absolutely every one of us. Are you going to tell a merciful God that He is unjust to declare that His children are holy and without fault or blemish, spotless and blameless because He chose them to be so? He drew them to His Son and they have placed their faith and trust in His shed blood for their salvation. Are you going to tell Him that He has no right to punish those who have trampled the Son of God underfoot, and counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace and that He is unrighteous for doing so? Verse 20, "But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God?" God is going to do what He has predestined to do whether we like it or not. Personally I will NEVER question His authority to do what He wants to do. You can do as you like but I suggest not walking outdoors during an electrical storm.

 

[RobertPate]

Romans 9:8 "...Those who are the children of the flesh, are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed." There are two different fathers for the two different kinds of children, God's children and the children of the flesh (the Devil's children.)

Romans 9:13 "As it is written, “Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.” God's children are spiritual descendants of Abraham Issac and Jacob and He declares that they WILL spend eternity with Him. The descendants of the children of the flesh (the devil) God hates and they will NOT spend eternity in heaven.

Romans 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not! For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.”Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens. You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?” But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, “Why have you made me like this?” Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?

How many sinners deserve justice? Absolutely every one of us. Are you going to tell a merciful God that He is unjust to declare that His children are holy and without fault or blemish, spotless and blameless because He chose them to be so? He drew them to His Son and they have placed their faith and trust in His shed blood for their salvation. Are you going to tell Him that He has no right to punish those who have trampled the Son of God underfoot, and counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace and that He is unrighteous for doing so? Verse 20, "But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God?" God is going to do what He has predestined to do whether we like it or not. Personally I will NEVER question His authority to do what He wants to do. You can do as you like but I suggest not walking outdoors during an electrical storm.

There is no scripture anywhere in the Bible that says God has predestinated some to be saved and some to be lost, but you think that there is.

To believe that God gives life to some so that he can damn them to hell is to believe that God is an unjust, unmerciful tyrant. The scripture says that God is longsuffering towards us and not willing that any should perish, 2 Peter 3:9.

God is sovereign only within his holy, just, merciful nature. He cannot and will not do evil. Your God is evil and wicked and is not the God of the Bible.

The God of the Bible so loves the world that he gives his only begotten Son for the sins of the whole world, John 3:16.

You paint a very dreadful and evil nature of God. It is not possible to be saved by believing in your wretched God.

 

[AVB 2]

There is no scripture anywhere in the Bible that says God has predestinated some to be saved and some to be lost, but you think that there is.

To believe that God gives life to some so that he can damn them to hell is to believe that God is an unjust, unmerciful tyrant. The scripture says that God is longsuffering towards us and not willing that any should perish, 2 Peter 3:9.

God is sovereign only within his holy, just, merciful nature. He cannot and will not do evil. Your God is evil and wicked and is not the God of the Bible.

The God of the Bible so loves the world that he gives his only begotten Son for the sins of the whole world, John 3:16.

You paint a very dreadful and evil nature of God. It is not possible to be saved by believing in your wretched God.

The very fact that the word "predestined" is found in the bible four times proves that it is a valid action of God. Lets take one passage and parse it out. Romans 8:30 "Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified." Is all of mankind called? Is all of mankind justified? Is all of mankind glorified? If you answer yes, than absolutely everyone will be in heaven. Did you notice that no where in this passage does it say all. If God is WILLING that none perish then none will perish. He is sovereign is He not? Did Judas perish? Yes, then God must be willing that at least one will perish (I will spare you the passage about the goats at Christ's left in Matthew 24 and what happened to those who worshiped the beast in Revelations 13 since you may have a weak heart.) Billions are perishing right now. How is this possible? God is willing that some perish according to Romans 9:22 "What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction?" Proverbs 16:4 "The LORD has made all things for Himself: yes, even the wicked for the day of evil."

Quote "He cannot and will not do evil." You are talking about the God of the Holy Bible, right? I see you know very little of His word. Lets see what He is capable of doing according to His word.

Isa 45:7 "I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things." Jeremiah 39:16 "Go and speak to Ebedmelech the Ethiopian, saying, Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will bring my words upon this city for evil, and not for good..." Amos 3:6 "When a trumpet sounds in a city, do not the people tremble? When disaster comes to a city, has not the LORD caused it? Jer 6:19 "Hear, you earth: I am bringing disaster on this people, the fruit of their schemes, because they have not listened to my words and have rejected my law." Jer 11:11 "‘This is what the LORD says: I am going to bring disaster on this place and its people—all the curses written in the book that has been read in the presence of the king of Judah." 2 Kings 21:12 "Therefore this is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: I am going to bring such disaster on Jerusalem and Judah that the ears of everyone who hears of it will tingle." 2 Kings 22:16 "‘This is what the LORD says: I am going to bring disaster on this place and its people, according to everything written in the book the king of Judah has read." Lev 26:15-16 "if you reject my decrees and abhor my laws and fail to carry out all my commands and so violate my covenant, then I will do this to you: I will bring on you sudden terror, wasting diseases and fever that will destroy your sight and sap your strength. You will plant seed in vain, because your enemies will eat it." 18 "I will punish you for your sins seven times over." 22 "I will send wild animals against you, and they will rob you of your children, destroy your cattle and make you so few in number that your roads will be deserted."

Hmm, evil not good, disaster upon disaster upon disaster, sudden terror, wasting diseases, fever, wild animals that God sent will kill your children and destroy your cattle. The scriptures paint a very different God from the one you worship.

 

[FineLinen]

I see you believe in double jeopardy. "Jesus atoned for the sins of the whole world." So if Jesus atoned for the sins of the whole world, absolutely no one will go to Hell! How unfair of Jesus. Jesus paid the price at Calvary, then on Judgment Day the sinner pays the price again. Even heathen courts of law and crooked judges will not allow double jeopardy.

The truth is Jesus atoned for the sins of the elect only.

The Lord Jesus Christ atoned for the entire lost world of sinners,

God is the Saviour of all mankind, malista those who believe.

Especially is NOT only!

 

[RobertPate]

The very fact that the word "predestined" is found in the bible four times proves that it is a valid action of God. Lets take one passage and parse it out. Romans 8:30 "Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified." Is all of mankind called? Is all of mankind justified? Is all of mankind glorified? If you answer yes, than absolutely everyone will be in heaven. Did you notice that no where in this passage does it say all. If God is WILLING that none perish then none will perish. He is sovereign is He not? Did Judas perish? Yes, then God must be willing that at least one will perish (I will spare you the passage about the goats at Christ's left in Matthew 24 and what happened to those who worshiped the beast in Revelations 13 since you may have a weak heart.) Billions are perishing right now. How is this possible? God is willing that some perish according to Romans 9:22 "What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction?" Proverbs 16:4 "The LORD has made all things for Himself: yes, even the wicked for the day of evil."

Quote "He cannot and will not do evil." You are talking about the God of the Holy Bible, right? I see you know very little of His word. Lets see what He is capable of doing according to His word.

Isa 45:7 "I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things." Jeremiah 39:16 "Go and speak to Ebedmelech the Ethiopian, saying, Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will bring my words upon this city for evil, and not for good..." Amos 3:6 "When a trumpet sounds in a city, do not the people tremble? When disaster comes to a city, has not the LORD caused it? Jer 6:19 "Hear, you earth: I am bringing disaster on this people, the fruit of their schemes, because they have not listened to my words and have rejected my law." Jer 11:11 "‘This is what the LORD says: I am going to bring disaster on this place and its people—all the curses written in the book that has been read in the presence of the king of Judah." 2 Kings 21:12 "Therefore this is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: I am going to bring such disaster on Jerusalem and Judah that the ears of everyone who hears of it will tingle." 2 Kings 22:16 "‘This is what the LORD says: I am going to bring disaster on this place and its people, according to everything written in the book the king of Judah has read." Lev 26:15-16 "if you reject my decrees and abhor my laws and fail to carry out all my commands and so violate my covenant, then I will do this to you: I will bring on you sudden terror, wasting diseases and fever that will destroy your sight and sap your strength. You will plant seed in vain, because your enemies will eat it." 18 "I will punish you for your sins seven times over." 22 "I will send wild animals against you, and they will rob you of your children, destroy your cattle and make you so few in number that your roads will be deserted."

Hmm, evil not good, disaster upon disaster upon disaster, sudden terror, wasting diseases, fever, wild animals that God sent will kill your children and destroy your cattle. The scriptures paint a very different God from the one you worship.

Once again, there is no scripture anywhere in the Bible that says God predestinates people to heaven or to hell. Please show me where it says that?

We live in a fallen world because of Adam who was the representative of the human race. It was a judgment from God upon Adam and his descendants. God is a God of judgment. If he didn't judge, he would be unrighteous. God has dealt with the sins of the world through Jesus Christ. Salvation has ALREADY been provided for EVERYONE, Hebrews 2:9.

There is no doubt about it, you have a very negative view of God.

 

[Der Alte]

The very fact that the word "predestined" is found in the bible four times proves that it is a valid action of God. Lets take one passage and parse it out. Romans 8:30 "Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified." Is all of mankind called? Is all of mankind justified? Is all of mankind glorified? If you answer yes, than absolutely everyone will be in heaven. Did you notice that no where in this passage does it say all. If God is WILLING that none perish then none will perish. He is sovereign is He not? Did Judas perish? Yes, then God must be willing that at least one will perish (I will spare you the passage about the goats at Christ's left in Matthew 24 and what happened to those who worshiped the beast in Revelations 13 since you may have a weak heart.) Billions are perishing right now. How is this possible? God is willing that some perish according to Romans 9:22 "What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction?" Proverbs 16:4 "The LORD has made all things for Himself: yes, even the wicked for the day of evil."
Quote "He cannot and will not do evil." You are talking about the God of the Holy Bible, right? I see you know very little of His word. Lets see what He is capable of doing according to His word.
Isa 45:7 "I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things." Jeremiah 39:16 "Go and speak to Ebedmelech the Ethiopian, saying, Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will bring my words upon this city for evil, and not for good..." Amos 3:6 "When a trumpet sounds in a city, do not the people tremble? When disaster comes to a city, has not the LORD caused it? Jer 6:19 "Hear, you earth: I am bringing disaster on this people, the fruit of their schemes, because they have not listened to my words and have rejected my law." Jer 11:11 "‘This is what the LORD says: I am going to bring disaster on this place and its people—all the curses written in the book that has been read in the presence of the king of Judah." 2 Kings 21:12 "Therefore this is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: I am going to bring such disaster on Jerusalem and Judah that the ears of everyone who hears of it will tingle." 2 Kings 22:16 "‘This is what the LORD says: I am going to bring disaster on this place and its people, according to everything written in the book the king of Judah has read." Lev 26:15-16 "if you reject my decrees and abhor my laws and fail to carry out all my commands and so violate my covenant, then I will do this to you: I will bring on you sudden terror, wasting diseases and fever that will destroy your sight and sap your strength. You will plant seed in vain, because your enemies will eat it." 18 "I will punish you for your sins seven times over." 22 "I will send wild animals against you, and they will rob you of your children, destroy your cattle and make you so few in number that your roads will be deserted."
Hmm, evil not good, disaster upon disaster upon disaster, sudden terror, wasting diseases, fever, wild animals that God sent will kill your children and destroy your cattle. The scriptures paint a very different God from the one you worship.

2 Peter 3:9
(9) The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.​

 

[AVB 2]

Once again, there is no scripture anywhere in the Bible that says God predestinates people to heaven or to hell. Please show me where it says that?

We live in a fallen world because of Adam who was the representative of the human race. It was a judgment from God upon Adam and his descendants. God is a God of judgment. If he didn't judge, he would be unrighteous. God has dealt with the sins of the world through Jesus Christ. Salvation has ALREADY been provided for EVERYONE, Hebrews 2:9.

There is no doubt about it, you have a very negative view of God.

Lets try this AGAIN. Romans 8:30 "Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified." So, these are the people that will go to heaven because they were predestined to go to heaven. How do we know they went to heaven? Everyone who is called, justified, and are glorified go to heaven. They sure don't go to Hell. So what is left? Those who were NOT predestined, not called, not justified and not glorified. Where did they go? To Hell.

So I have a negative view of God because He is sovereign?

 

[RobertPate]

Lets try this AGAIN. Romans 8:30 "Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified." So, these are the people that will go to heaven because they were predestined to go to heaven. How do we know they went to heaven? Everyone who is called, justified, and are glorified go to heaven. They sure don't go to Hell. So what is left? Those who were NOT predestined, not called, not justified and not glorified. Where did they go? To Hell.

So I have a negative view of God because He is sovereign?

Romans 8:30 does not say that God predestinates people to heaven or to hell.

Jesus is the savior of the whole world, John 3:17. Salvation has been provided for everyone, Hebrews 2:9. Everyone was predestinated to be saved, but not everyone wants to be saved. Those that have accepted God's great free gift of salvation, Ephesians 2:8 were called, justified and will be glorified.

The God that you believe in is not in the Bible. The God that you believe in came out of the twisted, perverted mind of John Calvin.

 

[Saint Steven]

The Lord Jesus Christ atoned for the entire lost world of sinners,

God is the Saviour of all mankind, malista those who believe.

Especially is NOT only!

Glad to see your appearance here FL. This topic was looking like an echo chamber with no alternative views on the subject, as if there is one. This seems more like a teaching than a discussion topic. (OP @Robert Pate please take note, thanks)

We should discuss this scripture below.
The phrase "in Christ" doesn't mean what is claimed so often as an exclusive offer, but rather an inclusive promise. They typically want to move the word "all' in front of "in Christ", thus making it exclusive. (to fit their doctrine) But the word "all" should be left where it is, thus making it inclusive.

What's your take on this?

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

 

[RobertPate]

Glad to see your appearance here FL. This topic was looking like an echo chamber with no alternative views on the subject, as if there is one. This seems more like a teaching than a discussion topic. (OP @Robert Pate please take note, thanks)

We should discuss this scripture below.
The phrase "in Christ" doesn't mean what is claimed so often as an exclusive offer, but rather an inclusive promise. They typically want to move the word "all' in front of "in Christ", thus making it exclusive. (to fit their doctrine) But the word "all" should be left where it is, thus making it inclusive.

What's your take on this?

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

May I answer your question?

When Jesus died on the cross the whole human race spiritually died with him. When Jesus walked out of Joseph's new tomb our new humanity walked out with him, Romans 6:6. All that are "In Christ" are new creations in Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:17.

The old things that are passed away are the Old Covenant of rules, laws and religion. Under the New Covenant "The just shall live by faith" Romans 1:17. The reason that the just shall live by faith is because, "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness for those that believe" Romans 10:4. There is nothing left for us to do, but to live by faith.