The Impossible

[CabVet]

Now are you talking the "Hollywood Version" or the "Biblical Version" ?
Scientists Explain Red Sea Parting and Other Miracles - ABC News
Crossing the Red Sea - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It doesn't matter, I was just trying to answer the question on the OP. But come to think of it, I think it would be possible to part the Red Sea with some sort of technology yet to be developed.

 

[essentialsaltes]

I don't think observation would work ... which was the same answer I gave to prayer.

Funny, psychic powers don't work when they're observed, either.

Anyway, I stand by the idea that 'science says' it is impossible to determine adultery with a beverage. It is up to those who believe otherwise to demonstrate it, and unfortunately that seems to be impossible too.

(I mean, the real answer of course is that all scientific conclusions are tentative. Who knows? Gravity might reverse itself tomorrow. I certainly can't prove that it's impossible, using the scientific method. But there are some things that we know with enough certainty that it starts to feel silly to not use the word impossible. It is scientifically impossible for a full-grown 'standard' African elephant to fly into the air by flapping its ears from a standing start from a location on the surface of the earth.)

 

[Resha Caner]

Easy there, that's not what he said.

I was aware of that when I wrote the post. They are intimately connected and you know it. As soon as we get into the "science" of proving goddidit, you'll ask me to define god.

Accepting that a god might exist, and yet insisting that he never physically manifests in any way is a mere debating trick.

 

[Resha Caner]

Funny, psychic powers don't work when they're observed, either.

This misconstrues what I said. Comments from the peanut gallery are unnecessary.

Anyway, I stand by the idea that 'science says' it is impossible to determine adultery with a beverage. It is up to those who believe otherwise to demonstrate it, and unfortunately that seems to be impossible too.

I have no doubt I will be unable to convince you the Bible is true. But that wasn't the OP. The question was whether science could show it to be impossible. I maintain you have done nothing to demonstrate it, but only said it.

Further, I am trying to determine if you wish to separate your claim from the details of the Biblical passage. Is the beverage you refer to only to be tested within the confines of the Biblical rite, or is this a general statement?

 

[CabVet]

I was aware of that when I wrote the post. They are inimately connected and you know it. As soon as we get into the "science" of proving goddidit, you'll ask me to define god.

Accepting that a god might exist, and yet insisting that he never physically manifests in any way is a mere debating trick.

That brings up an interesting point. His post said that miracles are impossible. You questioned that. So, if miracles are not impossible (which infers that they are possible), they are not really miracles, are they?

 

[CabVet]

It is impossible, and always will be, to cover the entire surface of this planet with liquid water.

 

[essentialsaltes]

I have no doubt I will be unable to convince you the Bible is true. But that wasn't the OP. The question was whether science could show it to be impossible. I maintain you have done nothing to demonstrate it, but only said it.

No, your original question was "What would science say is impossible?"

 

[pgp_protector]

It is impossible, and always will be, to cover the entire surface of this planet with liquid water.

? did you mean to add with the Liquid water available on this planet?

 

[CabVet]

It is impossible, and always will be, to cover the entire surface of this planet with liquid water.

Shoot, I take that back. It can be done, with a lot of effort and bringing in water from other planets.

 

[CabVet]

? did you mean to add with the Liquid water available on this planet?

Yeah lol, see my post above.

 

[Resha Caner]

That brings up an interesting point. His post said that miracles are impossible. You questioned that.

Actually, I carefully avoided the issue, but you are an astue one aren't you.

So, if miracles are not impossible (which infers that they are possible), they are not really miracles, are they?

It appears your definition of a miracle would be different than mine.

It is impossible, and always will be, to cover the entire surface of this planet with liquid water.

Be careful with your boundary conditions. I assume you mean based on what our estimate of the available amount of water would have been at the time of the purported Genesis flood.

I don't know.

But neither am I convinced "the entire surface of the this planet" is the proper reading of the text. At the same time I'll also admit that I usually lose exegetical debates on that text.

 

[Resha Caner]

No, your original question was "What would science say is impossible?"

So science would say something it can't show? I would take that concession and let you have all the rest.

 

[jayem]

What would science say is impossible?

How about knowing the exact position and momentum of a particle simultaneously?

 

[pgp_protector]

Shoot, I take that back. It can be done, with a lot of effort and bringing in water from other planets.

Or with massive landscaping
I wonder what the energy requirements would be to smooth the planet to within +/1 one inch?

 

[Resha Caner]

How about knowing the exact position and momentum of a particle simultaneously?

That's more along the lines of the types of answers I expected. We would probably need one of resident physicists to comment on the confidence in that model. I'm not sure I'd be qualified to address it.

 

[CabVet]

Actually, I carefully avoided the issue, but you are an astue one aren't you.

Yepp

It appears your definition of a miracle would be different than mine.

I am going by the Biblical one: "Miracles are those acts that only God can perform; usually superceding natural laws"

Source: "What is a Biblical Definition of Miracle?" - Probe Ministries

Be careful with your boundary conditions. I assume you mean based on what our estimate of the available amount of water would have been at the time of the purported Genesis flood.

Yeah, check previous posts, but I will be more specific: based on the amount of water currently available on planet earth. But also keep in mind that I carefully avoided mentioning the Genesis flood (as many interpret it as local), but you are an astue one aren't you.

I don't know.

But neither am I convinced "the entire surface of the this planet" is the proper reading of the text. At the same time I'll also admit that I usually lose exegetical debates on that text.

See reply above.

 

[CabVet]

Or with massive landscaping
I wonder what the energy requirements would be to smooth the planet to within +/1 one inch?

Not only you would have to smooth it, but also somehow stop the building up of more land through volcanic eruption and tectonic activity. But to completely flood earth, based on the amount of water that we have, you would only need to smooth the planet to within +-1km or so.

 

[Resha Caner]

I am going by the Biblical one: "Miracles are those acts that only God can perform; usually superceding natural laws"

Source: "What is a Biblical Definition of Miracle?" - Probe Ministries

The reason I wanted to avoid it was things like this. My definition of miracle comes from C.S. Lewis, and disagrees with this one.

The reason it comes from Lewis, and not the Bible, is that I don't think the Bible actually defines it. In fact, at the moment, I can't recall a verse that uses the word. Rather, it is often translated as "sign", "wonder", or something else.

So, I'd have to go find a verse that uses the word, trace it's translation from the original, study the context ... Do you really want to get into that?

 

[essentialsaltes]

So science would say something it can't show? I would take that concession and let you have all the rest.

No, it could show that bitter water does not detect adultery.

EDIT: or I refer to my previous answer to the original question - (I mean, the real answer of course is that all scientific conclusions are tentative. Who knows? Gravity might reverse itself tomorrow. I certainly can't prove that it's impossible, using the scientific method. But there are some things that we know with enough certainty that it starts to feel silly to not use the word impossible. It is scientifically impossible for a full-grown 'standard' African elephant to fly into the air by flapping its ears from a standing start from a location on the surface of the earth.)

 

[pgp_protector]

Not only you would have to smooth it, but also somehow stop the building up of more land through volcanic eruption and tectonic activity. But to completely flood earth, based on the amount of water that we have, you would only need to smooth the planet to within +-1km or so.

Would that also take into account the Tidal bulge of both the water & the earth's deformation?