The implications of the cross

[theophilus777]

Can you tell me what you think the effect of the principles of

1. The wages of sin is death
2. Humans are tainted and require redemption
3. The death on the cross was the perfect way to save and purify mankind, the most perfect and moral act

has been on our society?

I don't think any of these things have affected our society much beyond preaching. More specifically, your point #1 has been preached. #2 has not at all been clarified by "the Church," neither is there any consensus on what this means. Most importantly, #3 is NOT any part of the Gospel!

Now if you wanted to discuss the implications of the Cross that would be interesting, but if you want to see a society affected by it you need to examine the Church. (And even then its debatable)

 

[Hikarifuru]

theophilus777

I don't think any of these things have affected our society much beyond preaching.

Ok thanks for providing your pov

More specifically, your point #1 has been preached. #2 has not at all been clarified by "the Church," neither is there any consensus on what this means. Most importantly, #3 is NOT any part of the Gospel!

I did not require that the church come to any consensus, I asked what the implications of the cross were and the I provided three sentiments or ideas that exist. That you think "the church" doesn't agree isn't relevant. That's not what I asked. and your objection to my third point is rather silly.

Now if you wanted to discuss the implications of the Cross that would be interesting

Well that's what I specifically asked for... it isn't like it was your idea.

but if you want to see a society affected by it you need to examine the Church. (And even then its debatable)

The cross and what you refer to as "the church" are two different things and the tendency for this church quarrel over it's meaning further shows that I should not restrict my review to it. Also I can read just fine and I've read about the cross myself and I don't need the church to tell me what those words mean. Though I spent time in bible college myself as a member of that church so I have a pretty good idea what this church thinks too.

 

[ForJesusChrist]

They have had a very little effect on our society, in my opinion.

God Bless

 

[theophilus777]

I'll leave you with one final thought:

Though I spent time in bible college myself as a member of that church so I have a pretty good idea what this church thinks too.

I'm sure you do. I've read a lot of what you've written over the last several months, and only responded to a tiny speck of that. I've seen you reject a LOT of things re: Christianity, and all of them I reject too. None of those things have anything in common with the God I know, nor my Christianity. I'll leave you to process that contrast how you wish, but I do congratulate you on freeing yourself from the religion I see you've rejected.

 

[Hikarifuru]

I'll leave you with one final thought:



I'm sure you do. I've read a lot of what you've written over the last several months, and only responded to a tiny speck of that. I've seen you reject a LOT of things re: Christianity, and all of them I reject too. None of those things have anything in common with the God I know, nor my Christianity. I'll leave you to process that contrast how you wish, but I do congratulate you on freeing yourself from the religion I see you've rejected.

I hear this said a lot actually, that Christians or theists also reject the same ideas I do or even parts of the bible.

Though I do not believe it is possible to reject what I do and be a Christian, I reject the most foundational elements of the bible. I reject the atonement, I reject the sacrifice of Christ, I reject the concept of sin, I reject the concept or needing forgiveness, I reject the concept of hell, I reject all of this.

People who reject what I do and call their selves Christians are in my opinion confused and not Christians at all.

 

[theophilus777]

I hear this said a lot actually, that Christians or theists also reject the same ideas I do or even parts of the bible.

I don't reject any part of the Bible. I have every bit of it sorted, so it is all compatible not only with itself, but also with reality as I find it.

Though I do not believe it is possible to reject what I do and be a Christian, I reject the most foundational elements of the bible. I reject the atonement, I reject the sacrifice of Christ, I reject the concept of sin, I reject the concept or needing forgiveness, I reject the concept of hell, I reject all of this.

You reject your understanding of these words, which has virtually 0 in common with my understanding of those same words. I predict that re-hashing those words (Scripture) is not where you will find help first, but of course I could be wrong just like with my previous prediction. I just think it more likely for other areas to benefit you due to bypassing all of those words.

People who reject what I do and call their selves Christians are in my opinion confused and not Christians at all.

And I see I'm not nearly the only one saying you're confused about what Christianity even is. I have no idea how much of that is due to bible college, congregation growing up, or what. It went against my better judgment to attempt to respond to you in the first place, and I wore out my welcome well before this post. I shall darken your door no more

 

[Hikarifuru]

theophilus

I don't reject any part of the Bible. I have every bit of it sorted, so it is all compatible not only with itself, but also with reality as I find it.

That's fine, I was just saying your sentiment is not uncommon and I wasn't you did or should reject the bible, I was saying some Christians do go that far.

You reject your understanding of these words, which has virtually 0 in common with my understanding of those same words. I predict that re-hashing those words (Scripture) is not where you will find help first, but of course I could be wrong just like with my previous prediction. I just think it more likely for other areas to benefit you due to bypassing all of those words.

I'm not asking for help and honestly I refuse your help, I am not interested in reconsidering Christianity. I'm not willing to lower myself for the sake hearing you out. I literally have this exact same conversation with different Christians on this website probably once a month. Almost all of you think I misunderstand the bible, but that's predictable because you actually believe it. It would follow from that that you think I misunderstand it. I'm not angry at you, I'm not vilifying you, I'm not attacking you I'm am saying I am not in anyway interested in Christianity. I don't try to persuade you to my belief system and I have no interest in even trying.

And I see I'm not nearly the only one saying you're confused about what Christianity even is. I have no idea how much of that is due to bible college, congregation growing up, or what. It went against my better judgment to attempt to respond to you in the first place, and I wore out my welcome well before this post. I shall darken your door no more

Well you could have responded in a different manner than you did. It's not hard to see that I do have pleasant and appreciated conversations with other Christians. You probably don't appreciate my lack of trying to persuade you to my side and my lack of underhanded tactics... because I don't do that and you haven't had to experience it from me so you aren't comprehending the amount of peace I offer you, when you don't offer it to me. All you have to do just discuss what I ask and not try to persuade me or witness to me and we'd be just fine.

 

[1watchman]

As I have often shared with you in past months, Dean, there is no good way a true Christian can fully discuss your comments and inquiries without speaking of the truth of the Bible in salvation and the new life in Christ. Your questions (or baits, I suspect) are always about Christianity as like some philosophy, which it is not.

You have heard the true Gospel by many saints here at the CF site, and you continue to assert you are not interested in God's salvation or His mind as shown, so why not go to some philosophy site and talk about metaphysics, etc. If you continue to poke temptations in a subtle way for one to give it all up (which you keep denying you do), then you may be blaspheming God --a fatal course.

 

[Hikarifuru]

I dont mind you telling me what you think is true and I dont mind you saying I'm wrong. Just dont begin to tell me what to do or ask anything of me, just dont start witnessing to me.

I learn best about you by talking to you and I'm not afraid of your story