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the illusion of Evolution

The Barbarian

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The big deal is no death before sin.

That's easy to test. God told Adam that he would die the day he ate from the tree. Adam eats and lives on physically for many years. So the death God was talking about was a spiritual one, not a physical one.

If God tells the truth, physical death existed long before Adam.
 
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Torah Keeper

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If you could show no change in the fossil record over time, for example, you would disprove the ToE.

Sure. They are called "living fossils".

Human fossils aren't found alongside dinosaurs, so we conclude that they didn't live together.

And you conclude wrong. There is an enormous amount of evidence worldwide for people seeing dinosaurs alive. Try taking a look around and reading history. Before Richard Owen renamed them "dinosaurs", they were called "dragons".
 
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Torah Keeper

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There are several possibilities here:
  1. Adam began to die the day he ate the fruit. He lost his immortality. Bodily decay began.
  2. One day is as 1,000 years to God. And 1,000 years is as one day. There are Old Testament and New Testament verses about this. A day on Earth is 24 hours, but a day in Heaven seems to be 1,000 years. Adam lived 930 years, and died before one day in Heaven had elapsed.
  3. Adam's death was figurative, as you suggest.
 
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The Barbarian

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There are several possibilities here:
  1. Adam began to die the day he ate the fruit. He lost his immortality. Bodily decay began.
If God is truthful, that is not a possibility. God said he would die the day he ate from the tree, not that he'd start to die and die many years later.

You mean "1000 years is as a day to God?" If so, it completely removes any possibility of a literal Genesis, since plants could not wait 1000 years for Sun.

Adam's death was figurative, as you suggest.

There's nothing "figurative" about a spiritual death. It is more real and profound than mere physical death.
 
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The Barbarian

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Derek1111 said:
If you could show no change in the fossil record over time, for example, you would disprove the ToE.

Sure. They are called "living fossils".

You have an example of a species that is identical to a fossil species, millions of years old? Show us that.
That's not a rhetorical request. Show us an example.

BTW, even of one or more such species were to exist, it would not erase the many, many examples of change over time in the fossil record.
 
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lifepsyop

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I've always thought that was one of the most important points. The time and mode of creation has never mattered as much as how theistic evolution rips out the foundation of the need to even have a Gospel... that death is an evil and corrupt thing to be conquered, and was clearly not a dominating influence in God's original creation before the fall.

If such foundational and overarching dynamics are nothing but literary devices, it renders the whole bible as little more than the same... allegory and symbolism and works of literature and philosophy to be inspired by. Only real in the imagination.

That's why theistic evolution is anti-Biblical. It rejects the metaphysical worldview presented in the Bible.
 
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The Barbarian

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I've always thought that was one of the most important points. The time and mode of creation has never mattered as much as how theistic evolution rips out the foundation of the need to even have a Gospel...

If you think so, you have no idea what "theistic evolution" is.

that death is an evil and corrupt thing to be conquered, and was clearly not a dominating influence in God's original creation before the fall.

For a Christian, death is no evil at all; it has no power over us. If Jesus came to save us from physical death, He failed. We will all die physically. The death that He defeated was a spiritual death, the death that Adam brought into the world, not the death that exists everywhere in nature, and did exist before Adam.

If such foundational and overarching dynamics are nothing but literary devices, it renders the whole bible as little more than the same... allegory and symbolism and works of literature and philosophy to be inspired by. Only real in the imagination.

I'm thinking that "if my interpretation of Genesis is not right, then Genesis is nothing but literary devices", is astoundingly presumptuous.

Even most creationists admit that there are other valid Christian interpretations of Genesis.

As YE Creationist Dr. Todd Wood cautioned his fellow creationists, "Don't make an idol of your own reasoning."
 
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Job 33:6

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Funny. God creates a tree of life which grants eternal life to those who eat of it. Yet somehow you think that death didn't exist beforehand. One has to wonder why you think God would create a tree of life if death didn't exist.
 
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SilverBear

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finding that there was a meteor strike in the vicinity of the dead sea a few thousand years ago in not evidence of the destruction of Sodom
 
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SilverBear

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what real data is there that doesn't support evolution?
 
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SilverBear

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and we will just ignore the fact that dinosaurs looked nothing like mythical dragons
 
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SilverBear

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but if death didn't exist then Adam being warned about his death if he ate the fruit would be completely meaningless to him.
 
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The Barbarian

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Scripture.

Scripture isn't data. Revelation from God neither confirms nor denies evolution, protons, white blood cells, and many other things that are observably true.

As you seem to realize, there is no evidence that rules out evolution. How could there be? We see it going on all around us.

Is it possible you don't know what biological evolution is? What do you think it is?
 
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Cis.jd

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No. The devil is just making you believe you have faith in scripture, when it's really just ignorance and refusal to accept things that contend to your interpretation or what you want scripture to be, hence you getting christianity laughed at and believed to be false.

The Bible is never to be used as a book of scientific revelation and you can't just go "there is this verse" to object evidence that has been presented.

You are quoting from people who lived thousands of years ago, who had no knowledge or even intention of revealing scientific truths, and then saying "it's from God" to make you feel secure in your arguments.
 
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Cis.jd

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You have a very bad understanding of what "faith" means. Why would you or anyone have faith in something that you know for fact isn't true, that makes no sense? That is like saying I have faith in Zeus, Vishnu, Thanos, or Batman even though I know they never existed.

Faith isn't continuously believing in something that is proven to be untrue, it's believing something to be true regardless of any lack of proof.

We believe God is fact because of what we see as evidence for him, whether it be academical to personal experience; we don't have proof but we can counter with compelling evidence to support our views on our theological beliefs.
 
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coffee4u

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You are quoting from people who lived thousands of years ago, who had no knowledge or even intention of revealing scientific truths, and then saying "it's from God" to make you feel secure in your arguments.

2 Timothy 3:16-17


16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
 
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coffee4u

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Except it hasn't been proven.
Running tests on base assumptions isn't proof when the base assumptions can't be proved.
 
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Cis.jd

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Except it hasn't been proven.
Running tests on base assumptions isn't proof when the base assumptions can't be proved.
It actually has been, you just don't want to acknowledge it has because of your religious bias. You also shouldn't be pointing fingers at what doesn't have proof, you know genesis does not have any proof and you made a post as to why its not biggie to have no evidence/proof for scripture.
 
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Cis.jd

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2 Timothy 3:16-17


16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

But its not made to for the purpose of explaining the physical universe and not all interpretation is from God. Yours is not. You do not use scripture to validate/invalidate science because its not used for that and you'll just end up making the Bible to be looked as false.
 
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