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The Hypocrisy of Calvinists

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bcbsr

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Well let's do a simply wikipedia on "Calvinism"

This choice by God to save some is held to be unconditional and not based on any characteristic or action on the part of the person chosen. This view is opposed to the Arminian view that God's choice of whom to save is conditional or based on his foreknowledge of who would respond positively to God.

So you're an "Arminian"?
 
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YeshuaFan

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We hold that God decided freely Himself to place the elect into a Covenant relationship with himself, so by His own will He causes us to be enabled and willing to accept Jesus to save us!
 
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HosannaHM

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Even though you will believe I am making your point, I’ll say it anyway:

Friend, that’s nonsense.
 
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YeshuaFan

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We do not hold to fatalism, as all who are saved/lost are making that decision to reject/receive Jesus Christ! God is forcing none to go to hell, as all going there are "freely deciding"
 
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YeshuaFan

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Yet prior to the elect coming to faith, were they in any danger of going to hell (according to Calvinism)?
All of us are born in a guilty position as being spiritually dead in our sins due to the fall!
 
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bcbsr

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We do not hold to fatalism, as all who are saved/lost are making that decision to reject/receive Jesus Christ! God is forcing none to go to hell, as all going there are "freely deciding"
I was talking about Calvinism, where a person's fate is not left in the hands of human decision as you propose, but God imposes their fate even prior to their birth, and no based on his foreknowledge of future events.
 
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Jonaitis

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We hold that God decided freely Himself to place the elect into a Covenant relationship with himself, so by Hos own will he causes us to be enabled and willing to accept Jesus to save us!

Yes, the Pactum Salutis (covenant of redemption) establishes the redemption of the elect through Christ’s incarnation, life, death, resurrection, and ascension as that which is the driving purpose of history. God’s decree is that from fallen humanity, the Son, empowered by the Spirit, should redeem a specific number of his own people to be granted to him as a reward for the completion of his work on their behalf. The Spirit brings every one of them to faith under the faithful preaching of the gospel.

This was done by his free and sovereign will, apart from anything God would ever find in us, from us, or about us. He loves us, not based on what we would do, but in his own free love and will toward us in Christ before the world was laid.
 
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bcbsr

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All of us are born in a guilty position as being spiritually dead in our sins due to the fall!
That's another issue I have with Calvinism, the proposition of God reckoning people guilty of crimes they didn't actually commit. Best to start a new thread on that subject.
 
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Tree of Life

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There is a huge difference between fatalism and Calvinism. This OP simply demonstrates that you don't understand Calvinism.
 
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YeshuaFan

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I was talking about Calvinism, where a person's fate is not left in the hands of human decision as you propose, but God imposes their fate even prior to their birth, and no based on his foreknowledge of future events.
The sinner being saved still must receive Jesus as their Lord for salvation itself to occur, as none are just born saved!
 
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Hammster

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Yet prior to the elect coming to faith, were they in any danger of going to hell (according to Calvinism)?
Do those (in your theology) who God knows will believe ever in any danger of going to hell?

The answer is the same.
 
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bcbsr

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Even though you will believe I am making your point, I’ll say it anyway:

Friend, that’s nonsense.
Yet another example of Calvinist manner of proving ones point. You provide no evidence of what I said being "nonsense". You simply state it as a fact as if that settles the matter.
 
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YeshuaFan

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Those against Calvinism many times fail to understand that we are lost sinners, bound by our affected wills by the fall, and as such, we simply cannot accept Jesus to save us , as we are those who naturally prefer darkness to light, and are spiritually dead... Never saw a dead person able to will themselves to come out of the grave!
 
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bcbsr

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Do those (in your theology) who God knows will believe ever in any danger of going to hell?

The answer is the same.
You still have failed to show how I have misrepresented the premise of Calvinism nor show where my logic as how it leads to my conclusion is wrong.
 
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HosannaHM

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That's another issue I have with Calvinism, the proposition of God reckoning people guilty of crimes they didn't actually commit. Best to start a new thread on that subject.

Are you a Pelagian?
 
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YeshuaFan

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That's another issue I have with Calvinism, the proposition of God reckoning people guilty of crimes they didn't actually commit. Best to start a new thread on that subject.
Per the Apostle Paul, there were 2 Adams, and we are either spiritual dead in first Adam, or now spiritual alive in the Second One, Jesus!
 
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bcbsr

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That's not the issue. The issue I pointed out is that the logical conclusion where Calvinisms leads is that a person salvation is not contingent upon their faith but upon their election, which occurs prior to faith.

Do you agree (read the OP), and if not, why not? Provide evidence.
 
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Jonaitis

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The first part of Wikipedia is correct, that it is unconditional on our part in God's election.

The second part is faulty on whoever wrote it, and is assuming that foreknowledge is some sort of foreseeing certain events into the distant future. I addressed our view on "foreknowledge," and you refused it. You're not worth talking to, you have your fingers stuffed in your ears.
 
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