The Hunger Games

[Girder of Loins]

I have not read the books, but did see the movie. I thought it was wonderful. The lead role(a female) wasn't an idiot with no mind other than men, the storyline had no sexual innuendos in it, there was very little cussing, and the character development(while it coudl have been better) was present(although I'm told the books do a better job). I also loved the art form and costume design. I love hwo the "upper class" so resembled old French aristocrats, and the poorer districts resembled old French poor people. Why? It is history repeating itself. The idea brought into a futuristic setting so pleased me. I love it when new is mixed with old.

Onto the kiddos killing each other. If these had been middle-aged guys, no one would be batting an eye. That's the point. With kids killing each other, people start getting mad. I applaude the author's attention to details like this. With kids killing each other, we get mad. We see the wrong in it. It is a beautiful tale(I'm told it s a trilogy), and look forward to reading the books to see if it gets any better.

Should Christians get absorbed into this? No. An infatuation with something or someone *cough*Cullen/Vampires*cough* is borderline idolatry(depending on how far you take it). Can Christians read this and provide good commentary on an excellent movie/book? Yes. Can Christians so thoroughly enjoy the movie/book that they maybe buy something to show their support? Why not? Can Christians buy the book, get another book for the author to sign, buy all versions of the DVD/Blu-Ray, get all the lunchboxes, only eat Pita bread(see what I did there?), buy every shirt and accessory, and dress up like them? I would say that's pushing idolatry. Although if you're into Comic-Con, I would dress up like Pita and have flames coming off my back. Top that, kid in an Iron Man suit! But I digress...

 

[bouncingaussiebunny]

I have not read the books, but did see the movie. I thought it was wonderful. The lead role(a female) wasn't an idiot with no mind other than men, the storyline had no sexual innuendos in it, there was very little cussing, and the character development(while it coudl have been better) was present(although I'm told the books do a better job). I also loved the art form and costume design. I love hwo the "upper class" so resembled old French aristocrats, and the poorer districts resembled old French poor people. Why? It is history repeating itself. The idea brought into a futuristic setting so pleased me. I love it when new is mixed with old.

Onto the kiddos killing each other. If these had been middle-aged guys, no one would be batting an eye. That's the point. With kids killing each other, people start getting mad. I applaude the author's attention to details like this. With kids killing each other, we get mad. We see the wrong in it. It is a beautiful tale(I'm told it s a trilogy), and look forward to reading the books to see if it gets any better.

Should Christians get absorbed into this? No. An infatuation with something or someone *cough*Cullen/Vampires*cough* is borderline idolatry(depending on how far you take it). Can Christians read this and provide good commentary on an excellent movie/book? Yes. Can Christians so thoroughly enjoy the movie/book that they maybe buy something to show their support? Why not? Can Christians buy the book, get another book for the author to sign, buy all versions of the DVD/Blu-Ray, get all the lunchboxes, only eat Pita bread(see what I did there?), buy every shirt and accessory, and dress up like them? I would say that's pushing idolatry. Although if you're into Comic-Con, I would dress up like Pita and have flames coming off my back. Top that, kid in an Iron Man suit! But I digress...

There are a few points here I'd like to discuss. Before I begin, I should make clear that that this is only what I think about this, and I'm not trying to make other people think the same way. (If they don't want to, of course.) Anyway:

With kids killing each other, we get mad. We see the wrong in it.
This is what puzzles me. I don't really see anyone getting mad at this aspect of the series. In fact, it's part of what makes people love the series so much, from what I've seen. I suppose it might be the different ways we react to this. You might see the wrong in this and love the series for it. I, on the other hand, see the wrong in this which scares me to the extent that I keep far away from the series. That's just how I've automatically reacted to it.

Or perhaps it's the fact that our protagonist Katniss's killing of others could be seen as justified? After all, they're out to kill her, and she's just defending herself against that, right? I disagree. Sin is sin, regardless of its severity. And likewise, I don't believe that "righteous murder" can exist, just as "righteous sin" can't exist. Murder is a sin, full stop. This websitediscusses this in much greater depth, and from a Christian perspective, which I found very useful.

There was very little cussing.
I believe there are a total of 9 profanities and obscenities in the movie, according to another website reviewing the movie I came across a while back. I'm not sure how many of these 9 you picked up on, but just pointing that out.

Can Christians so thoroughly enjoy the movie/book that they maybe buy something to show their support? Why not?
Yes. And I agree with your point on the potential for idolatry in this series (or any other such series, as a matter of fact). But why would a Christian enjoy it so much in the first place? Again, this is what has me bewildered (and once again, it's a matter of perspective). 1 Timothy 6:11 tells us to "pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, endurance and gentleness" (NIV), and I don't think the Hunger Games quite meets that description.

 

[Girder of Loins]

To Bounce:

I totally understand your opinion. I think it comes down to perspective. Some of us have different convictions than others.

When I was talking about the amount of profanities, I was being relative to other movies(Predator, Terminator, Matrix, etc...) in which they have much higher numbers. So it was nice to see so little.

As to why a Christian would enjoy it? Well, it could 1) strengthen your faith. Someone might see this movie, see teens being awesome, and want to be a bit bolder in their faith(I know, its a stretch). Or 2) it could help them later in life. My friend wants to be a director. Seeing this movie could help him down the road in creating a high-quality Christian movie. Its like Lecrae(the Christian rap artist). he listens to secular rap to get ideas about what to talk about and what to refute. Does he like the stuff? No. Does he listen to it? Yes.

Go in Wisdom, Brother.

 

[saffron park]

There was very little cussing.
I believe there are a total of 9 profanities and obscenities in the movie, according to another website reviewing the movie I came across a while back. I'm not sure how many of these 9 you picked up on, but just pointing that out.

I was thrilled that the book had no profanity, and I'm severely disappointed to find that it didn't carry into the movie.

 

[HarborOrange]

Meh, it's just a foreshadow of the world that's to come.

 

[GrizzlyMonKeH]

In my honest opinion, the first book is alright, the second book is mediocre, and the third book is horrible.

One thing I do like about the plot is this: It takes death seriously.

There are too many action movies these days that blow over the topic of death like it's nothing. It's refreshing to read a series of books and then watch a series of movies which actually portray murder as wrong, and death as tragic.

And, Bounce, this series of books by no means glorifies murder. Not so much in the movie, but in the first book, our protagonist Katniss tries to avoid killing in the arena. She only directly kills one competitor, and that's in order to save the life of the other protagonist.

Anyways, that's my two cents on the topic.

 

[bouncingaussiebunny]

To Bounce:

I totally understand your opinion. I think it comes down to perspective. Some of us have different convictions than others.

When I was talking about the amount of profanities, I was being relative to other movies(Predator, Terminator, Matrix, etc...) in which they have much higher numbers. So it was nice to see so little.

As to why a Christian would enjoy it? Well, it could 1) strengthen your faith. Someone might see this movie, see teens being awesome, and want to be a bit bolder in their faith(I know, its a stretch). Or 2) it could help them later in life. My friend wants to be a director. Seeing this movie could help him down the road in creating a high-quality Christian movie. Its like Lecrae(the Christian rap artist). he listens to secular rap to get ideas about what to talk about and what to refute. Does he like the stuff? No. Does he listen to it? Yes.

Go in Wisdom, Brother.

So what you're saying is that your average Christian would pick up this book and read it, solely in the hope that it might strengthen their faith or perhaps help them later on in life. I think that's pretty unlikely. (Sorry if I'm sounding a bit harsh here.)

I think that there's always that worldly influence that makes someone want to read a book. By worldly influence, I mean reading it because it's popular, or because they made it into a movie, or because it sounds like a good read, or whatever - as opposed to asking, "Would God want me to indulge in something like this?" After all, it is His word that tells us to "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good" (1 Thes. 5:21). I really don't see the Hunger Games as being particularly good for my walk with God through life, so I'm wondering how you feel it strengthens you in your faith. (Curious sort of wondering, not condemnatory.)

In my honest opinion, the first book is alright, the second book is mediocre, and the third book is horrible.

One thing I do like about the plot is this: It takes death seriously.

There are too many action movies these days that blow over the topic of death like it's nothing. It's refreshing to read a series of books and then watch a series of movies which actually portray murder as wrong, and death as tragic.

And, Bounce, this series of books by no means glorifies murder. Not so much in the movie, but in the first book, our protagonist Katniss tries to avoid killing in the arena. She only directly kills one competitor, and that's in order to save the life of the other protagonist.

Anyways, that's my two cents on the topic.

I never said the books glorified murder.

In fact, this is something I've heard from a lot of people - the fact that the books don't glorify murder. What I did say was that murder is sinful regardless of its nature or the intent behind it.

Of course, there's no doubt that Katniss might have been a good person (that is, good in OUR eyes). But that doesn't automatically mean she's good in God's eyes. It doesn't matter whether Katniss was trying to save someone's life; what she did was sinful. As the Commandment goes, "You shall not murder" (Exodus 20:13). Full stop, no buts. Unfortunately, that's the way it is.

Essentially, what Katniss does isn't righteous, regardless of her good intent. It's like trying to say (and I think I mentioned this before) there's such a thing as "righteous sin". In other words: murder is a sin; Katniss commits murder; Katniss's actions were righteous (because she was saving someone else's life); therefore murder is righteous.

Additionally, James 2:26 tells us: "As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead." Likewise, Katniss's lack of faith is reflected in her actions. If she were a Christian (and I mean a really, REALLY strong Christian, one we could all look up to), she wouldn't just avoid murder. She would rather die in the arena as a consequence of her faith and beliefs than willingly sin by killing.

I know that's a big thing to say, but just hear me out, OK?

Look at Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego in Daniel 3. They were more willing to be thrown into a furnace, rather than commit idolatry and worship a golden idol (and idolatry is in the Commandments too, by the way). Then in Daniel 6, Daniel was more willing to be thrown into a lion's den rather than abstain from prayer. In the New Testament, Peter was crucified for his Christian beliefs. Paul was thrown into jail for preaching the Good News of the gospel. And before his conversion, Paul/Saul stoned a man Stephen to death - because Stephen chose to upheld his Christian faith.

The bible is teeming with such martyrs, and in every single situation we see God being placed first, regardless of the consequences. Remember, death in this life isn't the worst thing that can happen to you - what is the worst thing is eternal condemnation in hell. And the martyrs of the Bible knew that - that's why they were so ready to suffer, and sometimes be killed, for their faith.

My point is, Katniss is the sort of person who would rather kill, than not kill and be sure of eternal salvation. That's not the sort of person I think we as Christians should see as a role model.

So if you were in the Hunger Games, would you rather kill and suffer eternal death in hell, or be killed for upholding your faith in Christ, and be certain of being raised? That question, I think, is the only instance in which the Hunger Games could possibly strengthen someone's faith: by making them question their own beliefs and potential actions. But we shouldn't turn to Katniss and her actions as a guide for the way we should live. Because Katniss chooses to murder. And that's where the Hunger Games goes wrong.

I know I've practically written an essay here (and I hate writing essays), so sorry to put you through all that. I had a lot to say, that's all. And once again, this is just what I believe.

EDIT: This is a really great Christian website that reviews the Hunger Games, discussing essentially what I've mentioned above. I know I put in the link in an earlier post, but I feel it's really more relevant to this post.

 

[Pebbles97]

I totally loved the movie and books.

 

[GrizzlyMonKeH]

If you can't read a book without agreeing with its principles, I pity you.

When I read literature, I look at it's philosophical premises, and I see how it compares to what I believe. If I don't agree with it, I build a case for why this is so. If I agree with that it is saying, I explain to myself and others why this is so. In both scenarios, my understanding of my own faith and convictions is strengthened.

That's all I have to say on the matter.

God bless!

 

[princessmichal]

i read the books and found them not deep enough and there was no real meaning. They seemed more for younger age, about 10-12. defintily not my fav

 

[Girder of Loins]

I'm not saying every Christian would do this, and in fact very few would. However, it is a possibility. Honestly, I watched because everyone said it would be good. I found no glory in the killing, but I did enjoy the artistic styling and scene production/directing. It was a good movie from a movie perspective. From a Christian perspective, it was atrocious. But I am at a place in my faith where something like the Hunger Games won't affect my walk with God, it will only strengthen it. I likened the movie to injustice, and allowed it to strengthen my feelings toward it. It wasn't until i saw the movie that I became angered by social injustices. So it has strengthened my faith. But if it doesn't sit right with you, don't watch it. We all have our own convictions.

 

[bouncingaussiebunny]

If you can't read a book without agreeing with its principles, I pity you.

I assume when you say a book's principles, you mean what the book chooses to uphold/promote. I see the Hunger Games as promoting sin (i.e. murder) for the sake of attempting to preserve a life we're eventually going to lose. In contrast, what we as Christians ought to be doing is upholding our faith no matter what the cost.

Jesus put it quite nicely. "Don’t store up treasures on earth! Moths and rust can destroy them, and thieves can break in and steal them. Instead, store up your treasures in heaven, where moths and rust cannot destroy them, and thieves cannot break in and steal them" (Matthew 6:19-20, CEV) The treasures on Earth in this case is our earthly lives, which the characters of the Hunger Games attempt to protect by committing murder. We should instead be focusing on our treasures in heaven, that is, eternal life. (If Katniss had done that instead, it would have made for a very interesting read.)

So yes, I do disagree with the book's principles. I don't see the need for you to pity me over it, though. I'm just doing what God's Word tells us to do. "Put everything to the test. Accept what is good and don’t have anything to do with evil." (1 Thes. 5:21-22, CEV)

When I read literature, I look at it's philosophical premises, and I see how it compares to what I believe. If I don't agree with it, I build a case for why this is so. If I agree with that it is saying, I explain to myself and others why this is so. In both scenarios, my understanding of my own faith and convictions is strengthened.

Hey, that's exactly what I've been doing. I just happen to vocalise my thoughts on the subject a bit more than usual.

I'm not saying every Christian would do this, and in fact very few would. However, it is a possibility. Honestly, I watched because everyone said it would be good. I found no glory in the killing, but I did enjoy the artistic styling and scene production/directing. It was a good movie from a movie perspective. From a Christian perspective, it was atrocious. But I am at a place in my faith where something like the Hunger Games won't affect my walk with God, it will only strengthen it. I likened the movie to injustice, and allowed it to strengthen my feelings toward it. It wasn't until i saw the movie that I became angered by social injustices. So it has strengthened my faith. But if it doesn't sit right with you, don't watch it. We all have our own convictions.

So the question remains, why do the majority of Christians read the book or watch the movie, and ENJOY it? Sure the book night be well-written and the movie well-directed, and I agree with you on that. And there's not necessarily a problem with just watching it; the real issue is why they as Christians would enjoy reading/watching it.

For me, if it doesn't align with what I believe in (and the Hunger Games advocates the very contrary) I keep away from it. As I said before, "Put everything to the test. Accept what is good and don’t have anything to do with evil." That's just how I like to live.

 

[Girder of Loins]

So the question remains, why do the majority of Christians read the book or watch the movie, and ENJOY it? Sure the book night be well-written and the movie well-directed, and I agree with you on that. And there's not necessarily a problem with just watching it; the real issue is why they as Christians would enjoy reading/watching it.

For me, if it doesn't align with what I believe in (and the Hunger Games advocates the very contrary) I keep away from it. As I said before, "Put everything to the test. Accept what is good and don’t have anything to do with evil." That's just how I like to live.

I don't understand why Christians listen to, and like, secular rap and screamo, but it is simply because of my convictions from God. He told me not to listen to that stuff ever again, so I won't. So I don't understand why others would. But it is not there convictions, they have other areas God wants to work on them. Therefore, I can pass no judgement on them for liking something they have never felt a conviction for. However, if I know they have felt a conviction for it, then I will most definitely give them a talking-to.

 

[bouncingaussiebunny]

Recently I finally managed to find a copy of The Hunger Games at a library and, with the above discussion in mind, I decided to put any past prejudices aside and give it a try. Fifteen minutes later I replaced it on the shelf for good. Put simply, after just a quarter of an hour of reading, I was so sickened I could not read any more of it. What stood out especially wasn’t (just) the kids killing each other – it was the proportion of content in the book that contradicted the teachings of the Bible.

For example.

1. Loss of self-control (when faced with the prospect of death)

• Peeta: “No, when the time comes, I’m sure I’ll kill just like everybody else. I can’t go down without a fight.” – The Hunger Games, p.171-172
• We will see how high and mighty he [Peeta] is when faced with life and death. He’ll probably turn into one of those raging beast tributes. – The Hunger Games, p.173

It’s almost assumed knowledge (or at least, Katniss certainly thinks so) that when people are “faced with life and death”, all self-control goes out the window and savagery takes over. Indeed, that is what happens in the arena. These kids have no sense of self-control, let alone conscience, whatsoever. It’s obvious that this contradicts how the Bible tells us to live.

• For the Spirit God gave us does not make us timid, but gives us power, love and self-discipline. – 2 Timothy 1:7
• Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord. – Hebrews 12:14

Are there any exceptions? No. Unlike the Qu’ran, which preaches that such actions as occur in the arena ARE permissible (Surat 22:39), and the Hunger Games, which almost lays an unspoken expectation on one to act that way, the Christian Bible tells us that in His spirit we do have self-control, including over our actions. The Hunger Games, however, describes the contrary – which the Bible tells us is untruthful. (As an example I would discuss the experiences of the martyrs of the Bible – see Daniel 3, Daniel 6, Acts 7:51-52, Romans 8:35, Hebrews 11:35-37… – but I’ve mentioned them in great detail at least once in previous posts.)

2. Loss of self-control (when faced with the opposite sex)

I don’t have a specific quote from the Hunger Games, but it came up a few times. Like when the Games are just about to start, and all Katniss is doing is thinking about Peeta (and then she blames him for her almost missing the starting gong). And when they’re about to commit suicide by eating poison berries, and all Peeta’s doing is searching out an opportunity to give Katniss a peck on the cheek.

• For the Spirit God gave us does not make us timid, but gives us power, love and self-discipline. – 2 Timothy 1:7 (my emphasis.)
• Daughters of Jerusalem, I charge you by the gazelles and by the does of the field: do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires. – Song of Solomon 3:5
• You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. – Matthew 5:27-28
• Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonour others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

What we’re seeing here isn’t really love as the Bible sees it. The “love” between Katniss and Peeta is more the kissy-kissy, romantic variety, rather than the self-sacrificing, giving without intending to receive sort of love the Bible recommends. This kissy-kissy love often leads to lust, which in turn leads to sexual immorality – which the Bible tells us is a definite no-no.

Before you start gnawing my head off, I’m not condemning such kissy-kissy relationships, nor am I condemning kissing in general or having boy/girlfriends. The real issues here are firstly, the greater possibility/risk of lust, adultery and sexual immorality in such a relationship as Katniss and Peeta’s; and secondly, the nature of the love presented in the book, which doesn’t align with the Bible’s definition of love and so is misleading. Of course, there’s the exception of the entire book of Song of Solomon, but even that says “do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires”.

3. Defiance of the authorities

Once again, no quotes in particular, but I do know there is an element of rebellion against the authorities in the book, especially following Rue’s death. Once again, the Bible has something to say about this.

• Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every human authority: whether to the emperor, as the supreme authority, or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right. – 1 Peter 2:13-14
• If you suffer, it must not be because you are a murderer or a thief or a criminal or a meddler in other people's affairs. However, if you suffer because you are a Christian, don't be ashamed of it, but thank God that you bear Christ's name. – 1 Peter 4:15-16
• Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. – Romans 13:1-3

Essentially, what the Bible says is this. The authorities are to be obeyed, because when all’s said and done, God’s the one who’s put them there (or allowed them to take charge). The ONLY exception to this is if the authorities tell a Christian to do something that is wrong by the Bible, in which case a Christian should not do what the authorities tell them, but instead go by the Bible (Daniel 3, Daniel 6, Revelation 13).

“But wait a second!” you say. “The authorities in the Hunger Games make kids kill each other in an arena! Surely that’s enough reason for righteous rebellion!” Let me reiterate. The only exception to obeying the authorities is if the authorities tell a Christian to do something that is wrong by the Bible. Are there any Christians in Panem? There is no indication that there are. Have the authorities ruled something that contradicts the teachings of the Bible? Well, not really. The Games formed out of punishment of the people from a former rebellion. They’re taking kids away to fight to the death, not prohibiting worship on the Sabbath or legalising theft.

“But still, taking kids away to fight to the death is pretty good reason to revolt. Even if it is a form of punishment.” What about Israel’s exile to Babylon? That was punishment for a rebellion, too, but a rebellion from God rather than from a totalitarian government. And that was pretty horrible (book of Lamentations, anyone?) King David rebelled against God, by committing adultery with Bathsheba and killing off her husband Uriah. He had his son killed from illness as punishment from God (2 Samuel 11-12). Did he continue fighting against God because he thought it was unfair? No, he didn’t.

“But this is a government they’re rebelling from,” you say. “Not a loving and righteous God.” What about Jesus in his trial before his crucifixion? Did he resist the Roman and Jewish authorities, who were prejudiced against Jesus to the nth degree? He barely even spoke to try and defend himself. Now that’s submission to the authorities for you. The authorities didn’t force Jesus to do something wrong in the eyes of God; they just accused him and had him put to death – and so he submitted to them, as we should under normal circumstances.

4. Murder seen as justified

• Pity, not vengeance, sends my arrow flying into his skull. – The Hunger Games, p.414

Oh, how I love the book of Romans.

• What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! – Romans 6:1-2a
• Love does no harm to a neighbour. Therefore love is the fulfilment of the law. – Romans 13:10
• Everything that does not come from faith is sin. – Romans 14:23b

Murder is never justified, as I’ve said time and time again. I mentioned the Qu’ran’s views on that earlier, but the Bible is different. So it was pity for the boy (who was being torn apart by computerised dogs – what else?) that prompted Katniss to kill him and put him out of his misery. That still doesn’t make it right for her to kill him. (Insert Romans 6:1-2a here.) After all, it certainly wasn’t an action that came from faith. (Insert Romans 14:23b here.) And despite her “pity”, we can also rule out the prospect of godly love for the boy. (Insert Romans 13:10 here.)

The book continues to paint Katniss as a protagonist, despite the fact that she ends up killing in the end – just as expected. “Just like everybody else” (The Hunger Games, p.171-172). She’s just as bad as the other competitors, who go out of their way to kill people in the arena. Yet she’s still presented as good. Which she’s not, at least, in the eyes of God. Has she sinned? Of course she has (Exodus 20:13). Is she repentant? Nope. So should she be seen as someone we as Christians can look up to? Goodness, no.

Sometimes our convictions can be very dangerous and damaging to our respective walks with God.

 

[Gath]

This is primarily addressed at bouncingaussiebunny:

I would say that the fact that a book does not have all the characters act in a manner fitting with my faith (or lack thereof) would not cause me to dislike the book. Characters are characters, they aren't expected, or supposed, to be perfect. They have flaws and they do bad things. They make their own decisions based on their own morals, similarly to real people. So, were I Christian, the fact that the characters don't act like good Christians wouldn't be a legitimate reason to dislike a book.

As far as the books themselves go, I think they are great because they are so popular and cater to the masses while dealing with very important issues. The revolution in the books can be presented as an allegory to the Arab Spring, and I think the message it sends about revolutions, namely that it is important to prevent the rebel leaders from seizing too much personal power, is quite important. It also deals with an authoritarian government and the unjust powers that such a government can take, which is an important theme.

 

[bouncingaussiebunny]

This is primarily addressed at bouncingaussiebunny:

I would say that the fact that a book does not have all the characters act in a manner fitting with my faith (or lack thereof) would not cause me to dislike the book. Characters are characters, they aren't expected, or supposed, to be perfect. They have flaws and they do bad things. They make their own decisions based on their own morals, similarly to real people. So, were I Christian, the fact that the characters don't act like good Christians wouldn't be a legitimate reason to dislike a book.

As far as the books themselves go, I think they are great because they are so popular and cater to the masses while dealing with very important issues. The revolution in the books can be presented as an allegory to the Arab Spring, and I think the message it sends about revolutions, namely that it is important to prevent the rebel leaders from seizing too much personal power, is quite important. It also deals with an authoritarian government and the unjust powers that such a government can take, which is an important theme.

From here on, I'm also addressing the Christians who have been involved in this discussion.

The fact that the characters don't act like good Christians wouldn't be a legitimate reason to dislike a book.
There are quite a few other reasons why I dislike the book. However, the characters' behaviour is definitely a contributing factor. From a Christian perspective, the Bible calls us to live "as children of the light" (Eph. 5:8-10), that is, in the footsteps of Christ, and to be wise about what we do and how we live (Eph. 5:15). While I don't believe, as Catholics do, that what you do specifically determines whether you are saved (Eph. 2:8-9), I still believe that what we do and how we live/think/behave is important. There's no point in just accepting that we have flaws and using that as an excuse whenever we fluff something up in life (Romans 6:1-2).

Now from outside a Christian perspective. Would I really want to read or watch things that are filled with violence, sex, swearing, drug use etc. etc.? Quite frankly, I'm the type that's easily sickened and put off by those sorts of things - and that's by my own choice, not because I've been brainwashed, or even because I'm a Christian. In the Hunger Games, there are kids killing each other (violence: check), very lovey-dovey teenage relationships (sex: not quite, but you get the idea), excessive drinkers (drug use: check), and in the case of the movie, profanities (swearing: check).

As I mentioned in my last post, I read the book for about a quarter of an hour before I was disgusted to the point that I simply couldn't read it any more. That wasn't because I'm a Christian, or because I thought the characters did bad things. For the most part, it was the underlying tone of the book - very impartial to much of the violence and death which occurs - which I found most disturbing. I'm quite at a loss to say why other Christians (or even just others) didn't find it that way.

As far as the books themselves go, I think they are great because they are so popular...
Talk about jumping on the bandwagon. (1 Thes. 5:21-22)

... and cater to the masses...
So how many people do you know who have fought to the death against other kids in an arena?

... while dealing with very important issues.
"Important" is a matter of perspective. I don't think the issues described in the book are very applicable at all to the individual living in society today (or at least, a first world country). Perhaps the whole fighting to the death thing might relate to teenagers living in say, the Congo, where the political system is seriously messed up and people as young as teenagers are in fact sent out to kill other people in what has become a perpetual bloodbath. Perhaps the revolution theme might be important to someone living in Egypt over these past few years. But in a country such as the USA or Australia, or similar?

(By the way, Wikipedia tells me that the Arab Spring/Revolution began around two years AFTER the first book was published.)

Perhaps these issues are important from a global perspective, but what significance do they have for people in everyday life? In other words, what's the take-home message of the book (from both Christian and secular points of view)? Is it that violence is okay? That authoritarian governments are bad? That revolutions sometimes become messy? If anyone can give me a substantial take-home message that the book provides, which is very much applicable to everyday life and my walk with Christ (and isn't something I can figure out by reading the newspaper), I'd be grateful. Because at the moment I see absolutely nothing.

(And Gath, I hope I haven't offended you or anything - most of the above is directed primarily at the Christians who have been involved in this thread. This is just my perspective on things.)

 

[Girder of Loins]

To bouncingaussiebunny:

What I got was this: do not let power corrupt you. Here were people with the power to solve a lot of problems, yet they used it to stay in power. Not cool. We as Christians have been given power, and it is up to us how to sue that. Some, like during the Crusades, use it for their own power and influence. Others use it to help others. We must do the latter.

 

[Gath]

The fact that the characters don't act like good Christians wouldn't be a legitimate reason to dislike a book.
Now from outside a Christian perspective. Would I really want to read or watch things that are filled with violence, sex, swearing, drug use etc. etc.? Quite frankly, I'm the type that's easily sickened and put off by those sorts of things - and that's by my own choice, not because I've been brainwashed, or even because I'm a Christian. In the Hunger Games, there are kids killing each other (violence: check), very lovey-dovey teenage relationships (sex: not quite, but you get the idea), excessive drinkers (drug use: check), and in the case of the movie, profanities (swearing: check).

Interesting. I have no problem with that. If you dislike the content of a book, then by all means, dislike it.

As far as the books themselves go, I think they are great because they are so popular...
Talk about jumping on the bandwagon. (1 Thes. 5:21-22)

Well, kind of. If a lot of people like a book, then it fits my definition of an objectively good book. (Note that this definition is different from that used by most literary scholars.)

... and cater to the masses...
So how many people do you know who have fought to the death against other kids in an arena?

I mean that as in telling a story that people like, rather than having a story specifically about 'the average person'.

... while dealing with very important issues.
"Important" is a matter of perspective. I don't think the issues described in the book are very applicable at all to the individual living in society today.

I disagree there. I would say that revolutions in foreign countries can be important to the U.S. (maybe not so much Australia) as the U.S. has the ability to help these revolutions.

Perhaps these issues are important from a global perspective, but what significance do they have for people in everyday life? In other words, what's the take-home message of the book (from both Christian and secular points of view)? Is it that violence is okay? That authoritarian governments are bad? That revolutions sometimes become messy? If anyone can give me a substantial take-home message that the book provides, which is very much applicable to everyday life and my walk with Christ (and isn't something I can figure out by reading the newspaper), I'd be grateful. Because at the moment I see absolutely nothing.

I would define the message as something along the lines of 'power can corrupt anybody'. The leaders of the revolution are portrayed as freedom fighters working for the common man, however, when they take power (and even before then) they are shown abusing what power they have.

(And Gath, I hope I haven't offended you or anything - most of the above is directed primarily at the Christians who have been involved in this thread. This is just my perspective on things.)

No worries, you have not.

 

[bouncingaussiebunny]

I disagree there. I would say that revolutions in foreign countries can be important to the U.S. (maybe not so much Australia) as the U.S. has the ability to help these revolutions.

Fair enough, but how do revolutions halfway across the world have any impact on the individual in everyday life?

To bouncingaussiebunny:

What I got was this: do not let power corrupt you. Here were people with the power to solve a lot of problems, yet they used it to stay in power. Not cool. We as Christians have been given power, and it is up to us how to sue that. Some, like during the Crusades, use it for their own power and influence. Others use it to help others. We must do the latter.

Well, why should it take a book about slaughtering children to get that across to Christians, when God's Word tells us the exact same thing?

Seriously, are we as Christians relying on God's word, the sword of the spirit (Eph. 6:17), or mere by-products of popular culture and our sinful world to dictate our morals and values?

"Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires" (2 Peter 1:4).

If you want a good story about corruption by power, have a look at David and Bathsheba (2 Sam. 11-12), or King Solomon and his wives (1 Kings 11), or King Nebuchadnezzar and the stripping of his kingdom from him (Daniel 4). And I'm sure there are others. If, on the other hand, you prefer stories about children being forced to kill each other, as seems to be the case...

Am I the only one who sees the wrong in this?

"To the pure, all things are pure, but to those who are corrupted and do not believe, nothing is pure. In fact, both their minds and consciences are corrupted. They claim to know God, but by their actions they deny him. They are detestable, disobedient and unfit for doing anything good." (Titus 1:15-16)

 

[Girder of Loins]

Where do you think I got my moral code? I got it from the Bible. I've read all those stories, and I understand them. It was nice to see some modern literature with the same ideas. Albeit, the kids killing each other was a bit wrong, but only from a societal view.

Do you get equally mad about other movies with violence in them? The Gladiator, or any other similar movie?