The Human Spriit

[exitstageright]

At conception,it takes only one sperm cell,out of about 600,000,000 sperm cells to make it's way up to,and to fertilize one egg cell. Being male cells,I guess the millions of other male cells,were too stuborn to ask for directions.

Seriously,I have heard,that in Genesis,when it says that man became a living soul,at that point,all human souls were created at once.

Whenever a baby is created,a soul comes from heaven,and enters the body of that baby. This may or may not be true. However,when the sperm cell penetrates the egg cell,that is where cell multiplication begins.

So,at what point does the human soul and/or spirit enters into the human body? I do not think that there is one half of a spirit in a female egg cell,and the other half of a spirit in each six hundred million sperm cells.
If that were the case,it would mean that there are 1.2 billion half spirits going after one egg cell,that has one half of a spirit.

Does anyone else have any theories or thoughts on this?

 

[blackribbon]

Less than 1% of the sperm reach the egg because they die before making it that far...the miracle is that any make it alive.

You have posed a question I've never thought about. However, I do not think that the spirit is biological so it doesn't live in sperm or egg...I believe it becomes part of a the baby when everything comes together. Could it be that the spirit is the gate keeper that allows the one sperm to enter and fertilize the egg and lets life begin?

 

[exitstageright]

Less than 1% of the sperm reach the egg because they die before making it that far...the miracle is that any make it alive.

You have posed a question I've never thought about. However, I do not think that the spirit is biological so it doesn't live in sperm or egg...I believe it becomes part of a the baby when everything comes together. Could it be that the spirit is the gate keeper that allows the one sperm to enter and fertilize the egg and lets life begin?

Well,every cell in our bodies(except for the egg and the sperm) have 46 chromosomes,which make up the species,Homo sapiens,us human beings.

The egg and the sperm have cell reduction.They both consists of only 23 chromosomes. Therefore,when the sperm penetrates the egg,23 schromosomes plus 23 chromosomes will equal 46 total chromosomes.

That is interesting,as I never thought of the spirit as being the gate keeper.

What gets me is that in conception,the odds are 600 million to one. Winning the lottery,the odds are about 52 million to one. Yet,there are more pregnancies than lottery winners.

One reason,for the dying of the sperm cells is,that the enviroment in the vagina is acidic(a ph of less than 7);while the enviroment in the sperm,which contain the sperm,is basic( a ph of greater than 7).Water has a ph of 7,which is neutral.

 

[blackribbon]

What gets me is that in conception,the odds are 600 million to one. Winning the lottery,the odds are about 52 million to one. Yet,there are more pregnancies than lottery winners.

One reason,for the dying of the sperm cells is,that the enviroment in the vagina is acidic(a ph of less than 7);while the enviroment in the sperm,which contain the sperm,is basic( a ph of greater than 7).Water has a ph of 7,which is neutral.

The number of pregnancies versus the number of lottery winners probably is relative to the number of people having sex versus the number of lottery drawings.

And actually, the entire female system is designed to kill sperm (and every other foreign invader)...so again, the miracle is that anything ever makes it through...and yet it does on a regular basis.

 

[dayhiker]

exit, that is an interesting topic. Some theology books have the different theories listed and go over the strengths and weakness of each theory. I was really interested the 1st time I read them. Was looking forward to picking the one that would make sense to me as being the "true" one and have some fun discussions around the topic.

So I read them and didn't even come close to finding one that I thought I could defend as the points were so good their for or against that I couldn't say one was definitive. So only thing I can say is, "God knows," sure I don't have a clue!

 

[blackribbon]

Maybe the point that the Spirit enters the body is when a fetus truly becomes "viable"...however, I don't know that we will ever know exactly at what point that is. I know that both my kids showed their unique personalities, even in utero. Could it be that the Spirit is what starts the heart in the first place?

 

[exitstageright]

Maybe the point that the Spirit enters the body is when a fetus truly becomes "viable"...however, I don't know that we will ever know exactly at what point that is. I know that both my kids showed their unique personalities, even in utero. Could it be that the Spirit is what starts the heart in the first place?

Well if that is the case,what starts the heart in a dog,fish,bear,chicken,shark,or any other animal? These creatures do not have spirits.These creatures have instinct to survive.These creatures cannot be "born again" as humans can be.

 

[dayhiker]

black .. yup that was one point in the theology book. When are you publiching your theological treaties?

 

[blackribbon]

No theologies from me...just what I think about...and I can be convinced to change with valid evidence...

Exit...You raise a valid point...but who says that animals don't have spirits? (not a challenge so much as a question)...they don't have "choice" and are definitely on a different level from humans but I'm not thinking of any verses that say they don't have spirits...can you offer up some?

 

[exitstageright]

No theologies from me...just what I think about...and I can be convinced to change with valid evidence...

Exit...You raise a valid point...but who says that animals don't have spirits? (not a challenge so much as a question)...they don't have "choice" and are definitely on a different level from humans but I'm not thinking of any verses that say they don't have spirits...can you offer up some?

I did not take that as a challege.You do have an interesting and a very valid question.
I cannot think of any verses right now.

It is obvious that animal actions are pre-programed,such as birds flying south for the winter,in order to keep warm.Whales swim south for the winter for warmer waters.In March,whales can be seen in the Hawaiian waters. I would not mind going to Hawaii every winter.

Maybe one of Jesus' disciples had a pet and asked Jesus about pets having a spirit.But,as it says in the Bible,many things that happened while Jesus walked this earth,were not recorded.

If animals had souls and /or spirits,it might have been mentioned in the book of Genesis. Of course,the Bible is not a science book. It is a faith book,as I told one fellow scientist,who was skeptical about the bible.

 

[blackribbon]

Since I early in our marriage, we have always had the same breed of dog (5 different dogs)...and most of them have been related. They are red-bone hound with some other hound mixed in there (Rhodesian Ridgeback and Walker, that I know of). Anyway, there are things that are characteristic about the breed and things about each dog that has been part of their individual personality. Pepper "prance" when I came out in the backyard...my husband said she only did it for me...she preferred to be an outside dog. She was a mean little pup and I had to love the "junk yard dog" out of her. Her mate, Red, preferred living in the house and thought he was a lap dog (all 100 lbs of him). As an unaltered male, he could show dominance issues...but at heart he was a big mushball...and scared to death of lightning. Peaches was the definition of a "boy and his dog"...and would do anything for my son. Hank scared many people...he had an evil look in his eye that I always watched...however, it never showed for our family...but my FIL and BIL were afraid of him and wouldn't come into our yard (funny, since we got Hank from that same BIL). Hank wouldn't "sit"...it turns out that it was a male dominance thing and not "he is just plain stupid"...he would sit for my husband in a heart beat. It took two weeks and a lot of work with him to get him to recognize that even though I was female, I was alpha over him. And our current one, Bear...he wouldn't hurt a fly and lazy as can be. He didn't get out bed to even check on all the commotion when I forgot my key once and had to crawl through my daughter's window to get back in the house (not an easy task). He also is an emotional eater...and when my son goes away for the weekend on scouting campouts, within a day, he has given up that my son is ever coming back...and just lays on his bed until he finally returns...doesn't get up for anything.

They definitely have unique personalities...and I think our personality is somehow attached to our spirit/soul...and makes us who we are....so I believe that animals have some kind of soul or else they couldn't have such a wide variety of personalities...they would just be instinct and habit.

Heck, even our fish (Sun fish) had different personalities...from the one that kept jumping out of the tank to commit suicide...to the one who recognized my husband and followed him around the room as much as he could (within tank) and was almost joyful to see him...to the two sneaky ones that acted like an evil gang...(one would act like there was nothing going on until he could lure the feeder fish near the one hiding behind the rock waiting to pounce.)

 

[exitstageright]

Since I early in our marriage, we have always had the same breed of dog (5 different dogs)...and most of them have been related. They are red-bone hound with some other hound mixed in there (Rhodesian Ridgeback and Walker, that I know of). Anyway, there are things that are characteristic about the breed and things about each dog that has been part of their individual personality. Pepper "prance" when I came out in the backyard...my husband said she only did it for me...she preferred to be an outside dog. She was a mean little pup and I had to love the "junk yard dog" out of her. Her mate, Red, preferred living in the house and thought he was a lap dog (all 100 lbs of him). As an unaltered male, he could show dominance issues...but at heart he was a big mushball...and scared to death of lightning. Peaches was the definition of a "boy and his dog"...and would do anything for my son. Hank scared many people...he had an evil look in his eye that I always watched...however, it never showed for our family...but my FIL and BIL were afraid of him and wouldn't come into our yard (funny, since we got Hank from that same BIL). Hank wouldn't "sit"...it turns out that it was a male dominance thing and not "he is just plain stupid"...he would sit for my husband in a heart beat. It took two weeks and a lot of work with him to get him to recognize that even though I was female, I was alpha over him. And our current one, Bear...he wouldn't hurt a fly and lazy as can be. He didn't get out bed to even check on all the commotion when I forgot my key once and had to crawl through my daughter's window to get back in the house (not an easy task). He also is an emotional eater...and when my son goes away for the weekend on scouting campouts, within a day, he has given up that my son is ever coming back...and just lays on his bed until he finally returns...doesn't get up for anything.

They definitely have unique personalities...and I think our personality is somehow attached to our spirit/soul...and makes us who we are....so I believe that animals have some kind of soul or else they couldn't have such a wide variety of personalities...they would just be instinct and habit.

Heck, even our fish (Sun fish) had different personalities...from the one that kept jumping out of the tank to commit suicide...to the one who recognized my husband and followed him around the room as much as he could (within tank) and was almost joyful to see him...to the two sneaky ones that acted like an evil gang...(one would act like there was nothing going on until he could lure the feeder fish near the one hiding behind the rock waiting to pounce.)

Animals do have their personalities alright. My second wife had a white female cat named Vanna,yes for Vanna White. One time I was in the bedroom.Vanna comes to me and starts "crying".I said,"What's the matter,Vanna? You've been fed. You've been watered." (remember that T.V.show "Lassie"? ) Vanna continues to cry while walking towards and into the kitchen. I followed her into the kitchen. I had forgotten that I left a pot of water on the stove. The water was boiling
rapidly. Therefore,Vanna was "warning" me about the boilng pot on the stove.

I had one cat,that I always feed soft cat food. One weekend,before I was going out of town,I decided to give her dry food,while leaving an extra bowl of water. The cat walked to the food,stared at the food,looked up at me,gave me a "disappointed " look,turned away from the food,and left.

 

[dayhiker]

black I have to agree with you.

One of my first pastors and I got talking about this idea of us having a spirit/soul/body or was a better definition two parts physical/non physical. We both tended to agree with the 3 part view. He gave the following definition for each part and I've not heard a better one in 35 years. With our body/brain our senses tell us about the physical world around us. With our soul/mind we know/sense ourselves, our emotions, feelings and knowledge. With our spirit we sense the spirit world/other spirit beings and we know God, angels, other humans who have passed on and even demons and fallen angels. Tho its clear to me we can't control the contacts with spirit beings and to some extent I believe God has limited the contact from this world into the spirit world. Others have told me they have some of this type of contact, I have almost none. So I don't deny their contact, I know those that I can't relate to the experiences they have.

It seems to me that animals function in all three areas. Animals area clearly more than physical beings with really food sensors and a brain to process that data.

exit ... that is an amazing story about the cat.

 

[blackribbon]

I tend to agree with a scenerio like that. We, as a society, tend to focus on a the "physical" side and call that "science"...and anything that can't be explained in physical terms is called "false" or "unscientific". To me that is almost a denial of God. Yes, mostly things around us happen in a predictable manner because that is how God designed it to happen...but it also denies that there is much more to "life" than the tangible and explainable.

I have always thought that the way a kitten plays is evidence that they can see through the veil that we can not. There are so many times when they move across the floor moving like they are playing with someone's long robe...and stalk things that don't appear to exist. I think I find it much easier to believe that they maybe really "see" something that we can't than believe that all cats have a vivid imagination.

I also think that experiencing death of someone extremely close to us pulls us closer to being able to see through to the spirit world...at least for a time. I have talked to too many widowed people who have had some incredible experiences that defy logic...and they certainly won't tell just anyone. One man (PhD in computer tech stuff) went so far as to measure the spot where he believed an experience happened ... only to find out the apparition was exactly his wife's height ... to the 3/4 inch that she always stated as her height.

We are definitely more than physical and scientific...there is a whole world out there that has not been explained to our human understanding, and we will probably will never understand until we are with Christ again.

The last couple days of my husband's life, he was in a coma-like state. He had a major seizure that had caused his brain to swell to the point that it had killed most of it's activity. The last couple days of his life were trying to determine if it was reversible or if his brain had died. Even when the tests were showing that he had zero brain activity, two tears fell from one eye. Once, when our kids came in to tell them they loved him and say goodbye...and once when I was talking to him. Even the doctor who believed he was brain dead, told me to keep talking to him because the hearing is the last sense to go...and he explained every procedure to my husband before performing it. This man was the head of the brain and spinal clinic at one of the best cancer hospitals in the world. His experiences had told him that life was not limited to a bunch of charts and tests...that there was more to it than the science that was around him. I know that I sensed my husband's presence...enough to recognized two times when it left his body...something about him went flat (not unlike when he was dead)...and yet came back shortly there after. The moniters didn't change but his whole essence did. I think his spirit left his body during those time and yet came back. One widow told me she felt her husband's spirit leave his body like a bird flying away. I think my husband's may have left his body but stayed around me for while after he died...either that or there was an incredible presence of angels in that hospital room. There was such an incredible aura of peace.

 

[dayhiker]

black,
I have read a few books on life after dead experiences. What you described is very consistent with the experiences recorded in those books.

I agree with the science and God thoughts as well. I sometimes word it this way to people. The instruments scientist design are designed to detect physical phenomenon. God is spirit. So the realms are different. It make no sense to limit the test to physical data (input) and say the output detects no spiritual data. Can't get a result from a study that's outside the input data.

 

[memoriesbymichelle]

blackribbon, I agree with you about getting closer to the veil that separates spirit and physical worlds when someone close to us dies or is dying. I had that kind of expericence with my husband too. I also think children or babies can see more clearly into the spiritual realm. My oldest son, when he was a baby, sometimes he would be intently looking up and smiling and I used to ask him all the time "are you seeing angels?" Of course he was too young to verbalize anything to me, but I do believe he did see angels.

As for animals in heaven Isaiah 11:6-10 describes animals and the change in the nature that they have now, so it leads me to believe that animals will be in heaven as this is decribing when Christ reigns, probably in the millennium.
6"The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, The leopard shall lie down with the young goat, The calf and the young lion and the fatling together; And a little child shall lead them. 7 The cow and the bear shall graze; Their young ones shall lie down together; And the lion shall eat straw like the ox. 8 The nursing child shall play by the cobra's hole, And the weaned child shall put his hand in the viper's den. 9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain, For the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord As the waters cover the sea. 10 "And in that day there shall be a Root of Jesse, Who shall stand as a banner to the people; For the Gentiles shall seek Him, And His resting place shall be glorious."

 

[blackribbon]

A widow friend that I know personally once told me this story. Her niece was under 2 years old when my friend's husband died of unspecified liver disease at age 48. (He was a very healthy man living a very healthy lifestyle.) Anyway, when this niece was almost 4, she asked her mom and aunt "Why did you tell me Uncle S- died?" They answered "Because he did". She then asked, "Then why is he always sitting at Aunt P-'s table? He likes to tickle me."

 

[memoriesbymichelle]

A widow friend that I know personally once told me this story. Her niece was under 2 years old when my friend's husband died of unspecified liver disease at age 48. (He was a very healthy man living a very healthy lifestyle.) Anyway, when this niece was almost 4, she asked her mom and aunt "Why did you tell me Uncle S- died?" They answered "Because he did". She then asked, "Then why is he always sitting at Aunt P-'s table? He likes to tickle me."

Wow! That is so cool!

 

[dayhiker]

Interesting story, Michelle. Ya, young kids do seem to have that ability.
One of the things mentioned by some of those that have had near death experiences is how hard they try to make contact with the poeple they love, but most didn't get any response. So while it happens, it seems to not happen as often as people would like it to.