The human ear. Product of Intelligent Design or mindless evolution?

[Joseph G]

THE HEARING SYSTEM - NOT BY CHANCE!

Evolution is supposed to be a mindless, random process that takes place over millions of years. If this is the case, how did the human hearing system arise, with its five separate components that don’t function without the others? Five separate parts to our hearing system all work in unison to enable us to hear, and none of the five make any sense by themselves. What good is an outer ear (engineered for capturing sound waves) if there’s not an ear drum to capture the sound wave pulses? What good is a pulsing ear drum without the three tiny bones behind it that use leverage to amplify the sound signal by a factor of 1.7 and connect to a water-charged cochlea filled with fluid? The cochlea converts the mechanical leverage to a hydraulic system that amplifies the signal another 22 times. And what good is all of this without the 20,000 tiny hair cells (stereocilia) inside the cochlea that convert the fluid movement into an electrochemical signal that we can immediately comprehend as speech?

Creationists see this as an intentional design by a Divine Creator. Evolutionists see this as the result of time + chance + mutuations + natural selection. Which explanation makes more sense? What creature would have devoted its genes and energies to crafting non-functional ear parts for generations while it waited for the fifth precision part to spontaneously appear?

Matthew 13:9-16 NIV

"Whoever has ears, let them hear.”
10 The disciples came to him and asked, “Why do you speak to the people in parables?”
11 He replied, “Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them.

12 Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them.
13 This is why I speak to them in parables: “Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand.

14 In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: “ ‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
15 For this people’s heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.’

16 But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear."

 

[Zaha Torte]

THE HEARING SYSTEM - NOT BY CHANCE!

Evolution is supposed to be a mindless, random process that takes place over millions of years. If this is the case, how did the human hearing system arise, with its five separate components that don’t function without the others? Five separate parts to our hearing system all work in unison to enable us to hear, and none of the five make any sense by themselves. What good is an outer ear (engineered for capturing sound waves) if there’s not an ear drum to capture the sound wave pulses? What good is a pulsing ear drum without the three tiny bones behind it that use leverage to amplify the sound signal by a factor of 1.7 and connect to a water-charged cochlea filled with fluid? The cochlea converts the mechanical leverage to a hydraulic system that amplifies the signal another 22 times. And what good is all of this without the 20,000 tiny hair cells (stereocilia) inside the cochlea that convert the fluid movement into an electrochemical signal that we can immediately comprehend as speech?

Creationists see this as an intentional design by a Divine Creator. Evolutionists see this as the result of time + chance + mutuations + natural selection. Which explanation makes more sense? What creature would have devoted its genes and energies to crafting non-functional ear parts for generations while it waited for the fifth precision part to spontaneously appear?

View attachment 355623

Matthew 13:9-16 NIV

"Whoever has ears, let them hear.”
10 The disciples came to him and asked, “Why do you speak to the people in parables?”
11 He replied, “Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them.

12 Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them.
13 This is why I speak to them in parables: “Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand.

14 In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: “ ‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
15 For this people’s heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.’

16 But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear."

"And in nothing doth man offend God, or against none is his wrath kindled, save those who confess not his hand in all things, and obey not his commandments." (Doctrine and Covenants 59:21)

 

[BCP1928]

Not a very effective argument for those who know what biologists believe the evolutionary pathways of the ear to have been. Right or wrong, what science has to say about the evolution of the ear is at least plausible. What you have presented to us is a straw man, a pretense of 'irreducible complexity.'

Theologically your argument is a complete failure, resting as it does on the false dichotomy that evolution rules out divine intention.

 

[Zaha Torte]

Not a very effective argument for those who know what biologists believe the evolutionary pathways of the ear to have been. Right or wrong, what science has to say about the evolution of the ear is at least plausible. What you have presented to us is a straw man, a pretense of 'irreducible complexity.'

Theologically your argument is a complete failure, resting as it does on the false dichotomy that evolution rules out divine intention.

I suppose it depends on what you mean by "evolution".

If you mean the development of the human ear - then evolution definitely rules out divine intention - since God created Man in His image - after His very likeness.

 

[BCP1928]

I suppose it depends on what you mean by "evolution".

If you mean the development of the human ear - then evolution definitely rules out divine intention - since God created Man in His image - after His very likeness.

Which is exactly why Joseph's argument fails. Evolution does not rule out divine authorship of our being, it rules out divine authorship of our being according to a literal interpretation of Genesis.

 

[Joseph G]

Which is exactly why Joseph's argument fails. Evolution does not rule out divine authorship of our being, it rules out divine authorship of our being according to a literal interpretation of Genesis.

Not my argument, bra. God's...

Romans 1:18-20 NIV

"18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.

20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse."

God has been nailing rebels for ~ 6000 years now, and will continue till the last trumpet. The ones who inherit eternal life are those who accept Jesus to be nailed in our place. Join us!

God bless.

biblegateway.com

 

[BCP1928]

Not my argument, bra. God's...

Romans 1:18-20 NIV

"18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.

20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse."

God has been nailing rebels for ~ 6000 years now, and will continue till the last trumpet. The ones who inherit eternal life are those who accept Jesus to be nailed in our place. Join us!

God bless.

biblegateway.com

You can't make God or evolution out of that. And trying to use the Bible to do it is a circular argument anyway.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Not my argument, bra. God's...

Romans 1:18-20 NIV

"18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.

20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse."

God has been nailing rebels for ~ 6000 years now, and will continue till the last trumpet. The ones who inherit eternal life are those who accept Jesus to be nailed in our place. Join us!

God bless.

biblegateway.com

That's Paul's argument/claim about what his god does, not an argument from his god.

If you are going to cut-and-past an argument from a website (the OP), it is good form to cite and link that site.

 

[Joseph G]

That's Paul's argument/claim about what his god does, not an argument from his god.

Paul knew his writings were inspired, thus from God - and when to differentiate such from his own opinions...

1 Corinthians 7:12

"To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer..."

And he wasn't alone in recognizing said inspiration in himself...

2 Peter 3:15

"Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him."

If you are going to cut-and-past an argument from a website (the OP), it is good form to cite and link that site.

Fair enough.

Site: Biblical Creation

Biblical Creation | Cleveland Heights OH

Biblical Creation, Cleveland Heights. 212,775 likes · 102,376 talking about this · 83 were here. We provide factual daily information that proves the Bible true through science and history.

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God bless!

 

[essentialsaltes]

An ear capable of hearing airborne sounds evolved independently at least six times among terrestrial vertebrate groups, including mammals, lizards, frogs, turtles, crocodiles, and birds. Yet although these ears may differ in some details, they all share certain features: an eardrumlike membrane to capture sound vibrations and small bones--such as the stapes--to transmit the sounds to the inner ear. Based on the fossil record, the earliest known ears of this type date to 200 million years ago or later.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Paul knew his writings were inspired, thus from God - and when to differentiate such from his own opinions...

again this is merely Paul's claim about the origin of his inspiration. I have no reason to accept it as fact.

1 Corinthians 7:12

"To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer..."

And he wasn't alone in recognizing said inspiration in himself...

2 Peter 3:15

"Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him."


Fair enough.

Site: Biblical Creation

Biblical Creation | Cleveland Heights OH

Biblical Creation, Cleveland Heights. 212,775 likes · 102,376 talking about this · 83 were here. We provide factual daily information that proves the Bible true through science and history.

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God bless!

That's for referencing your source.

 

[Joseph G]

again this is merely Paul's claim about the origin of his inspiration. I have no reason to accept it as fact.

That's for referencing your source.

Not to belabor, but as a point of curiosity, if you don't believe his writings are inspired, or I'm guessing any of the Bible, why do you extend any effort debating against it? Do you also go to other faith's boards and argue against them, or is it something unique to Christian Scriptures that offends you?

 

[BCP1928]

Not to belabor, but as a point of curiosity, if you don't believe his writings are inspired, or I'm guessing any of the Bible, why do you extend any effort debating against it? Do you also go to other faith's boards and argue against them, or is it something unique to Christian Scriptures that offends you?

We are not really arguing against the Scriptures, but against your misrepresentation of the theory of evolution.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Looking at the original post, what it really boils down is a classic example of incredulity. You cannot imagine the ear working or even having evolved, so you assign special creation to it, even though there is evidence of the ear having evolved many times in the past. So really, this is just an example of "I've already made up my mind, but I'm going to pretend I want a debate for no real reason!".

 

[Hans Blaster]

Not to belabor, but as a point of curiosity, if you don't believe his writings are inspired, or I'm guessing any of the Bible, why do you extend any effort debating against it? Do you also go to other faith's boards and argue against them, or is it something unique to Christian Scriptures that offends you?

I'm not debating Paul. I am pointing out that quoting his writing does not back your claims about the ear. Paul's writings would not be relevant if you hadn't quoted them. I am here to discuss science, and Paul wrote nothing on that topic.

 

[Joseph G]

Ok. So can we get to the nutcut? Do you object primarily that, unlike an ever-evolving theory like yours, Christians believe and preach the superiority of Scripture as unalterable fact? Is that the core of your angst? An over-arching compulsion to drag Scripture down to like, fallible theory since evolution cannot ever possibly aspire to rise any higher?

 

[Joseph G]

Looking at the original post, what it really boils down is a classic example of incredulity. You cannot imagine the ear working or even having evolved, so you assign special creation to it, even though there is evidence of the ear having evolved many times in the past. So really, this is just an example of "I've already made up my mind, but I'm going to pretend I want a debate for no real reason!".

What evidence?

 

[Joseph G]

I'm not debating Paul. I am pointing out that quoting his writing does not back your claims about the ear. Paul's writings would not be relevant if you hadn't quoted them. I am here to discuss science, and Paul wrote nothing on that topic.

You're not answering my question, Hans. Why Christianity? There aren't a plethora of secular boards you can opine on in peace to your heart's content? Why here?

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Ok. So can we get to the nutcut? Do you object primarily that, unlike an ever-evolving theory like yours, Christians believe and preach the superiority of Scripture as unalterable fact? Is that the core of your angst? An over-arching compulsion to drag Scripture down to like, fallible theory since evolution cannot ever possibly aspire to rise any higher?

Considering that neither one is similar and the acceptance of evolution is not needed for being a Christian...
Even St Augustine of Hippo cautioned against your approach (source)

Usually, even a non-Christian knows something about the earth, the heavens, and the other elements of this world, about the motion and orbit of the stars and even their size and relative positions, about the predictable eclipses of the sun and moon, the cycles of the years and the seasons, about the kinds of animals, shrubs, stones, and so forth, and this knowledge he holds to as being certain from reason and experience. Now, it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing for an infidel to hear a Christian, presumably giving the meaning of Holy Scripture, talking non-sense on these topics; and we should take all means to prevent such an embarrassing situation, in which people show up vast ignorance in a Christian and laugh it to scorn.

The shame is not so much that an ignorant individual is derided, but that people outside the household of the faith think our sacred writers held such opinions, and, to the great loss of those for whose salvation we toil, the writers of our Scripture are criticized and rejected as unlearned men. If they find a Christian mistaken in a field which they themselves know well and hear him maintaining his foolish opinions about our books, how are they going to believe those books in matters concerning the resurrection of the dead, the hope of eternal life, and the kingdom of heaven, when they think their pages are full of falsehoods on facts which they themselves have learnt from experience and the light of reason?


Reckless and incompetent expounders of holy Scripture bring untold trouble and sorrow on their wiser brethren when they are caught in one of their mischievous false opinions and are taken to task by those who are not bound by the authority of our sacred books. For then, to defend their utterly foolish and obviously untrue statements, they will try to call upon Holy Scripture for proof and even recite from memory many passages which they think support their position, although “they understand neither what they say nor the things about which they make assertion.”

 

[Hans Blaster]

You're not answering my question, Hans. Why Christianity? There aren't a plethora of secular boards you can opine on in peace to your heart's content? Why here?

Because this science board was the most interesting, for general pseudoscience and with plenty of the religiously derived pseudoscience of creationism.