The happy conclusions of the present gun debate.

OldWiseGuy

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It is probable that millions of others taking these medications did not have the same reaction as those listed here (if indeed a reaction leading to violence can even be proven). The conclusion that leaps into mind regarding these drugs is that those taking them must be reported to the proper agency, which will suspend their right to buy guns, and secure any guns they might have access to during their treatment. Of course the difficulty of this is obvious. Problematic as well is the likelihood that they will probably not get their guns rights back once lost.
 
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JGG

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It's also worth pointing out the same idea of correlation I suggested earlier. Perhaps it isn't the medication that is leading to their actions, but the fact that they all have some mental disturbance for which the medication was prescribed.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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How does that refute the fact that mass shootings happen in non gun free zones and people who are concealed carrying do not stop them?

Someone with a handgun has to be very close to the shooter at the time the shooting is happening or about to happen. The odds of this are very small. I can hit most anything within 150 yards with my rifle, but 20 yards is about the maximum effective distance with my handgun.
 
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AceHero

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They say, "Now's not the time," and by the time it's time to talk...there's another shooting.


Those people are downright kooks.


Let's see — the U.S. has 5.09 times the amount of guns per 100,000 people as Canada and experiences 4.72 times the firearm death rate. Looks pretty clear to me.

I find it "interesting" that, even though we have been getting reports of mass shootings, it seems a lot of people still do not buy guns. I haven't. I trust God with my life.

I think gun rights advocates put way too much confidence in their claim that taking away gun free zones will automatically result in shoppers and students carrying guns with them en masse.
 
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com7fy8

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We are more socialist, sure. Consider that perhaps we are more socialist because we do not feel entitled, or independent, not necessarily the other way around.
Ok, sounds good
I do think that Canadians tend to have genuine concern for their neighbour, and aren't prepared to step on them to get what we want.
All of us need to be like this.

But, "of course", each person can be different, in a group. But you say that Canadians "tend" to be unselfish. You do not say that every one is.

I think in America, in order to get yours, you have to take from someone else.
Well, this can be how a lot of Americans do things. And, for just one example, in order for us to have the low prices we have on certain products, we buy from China, which means that ones are working for rather low wages, in China, so we can have more for our wages while they do not have things that we have. So, I suppose this could be a way of taking from someone else so we can have what we want.

And, since this thread is about gun control . . . I'll say that ones in America might not themselves carry and use guns, but they can use people who have guns in order to enforce their getting what they want. So, there can be anti-gun folks who indeed are using guns to get what they want, but the guns they use just are not in their own hands.

And there are ones who are saying they are against people having guns, yet they are ok with killing unborn Americans, and they will use people with guns to defend the killing of unborn people. So, ones are ok with killing, when it suits their purpose, and using guns that they can control, if it suits their purpose. Killing is included in how they do things.

And, in order to have the lives they want, they can take life away from an unborn person. So, yes, in America ones do take in order to have what they want, in more ways than one.
 
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I'll further the bet by predicting that this will be the claim made by politicians seeking more restrictions on gun rights before anything is ever known about the shooter.
Well, the rational ppl who recgonize that ALL the mass shooting spurring this "restriction" debate, refuse to see the root cause of these shootings.

The elephant in the room is actually a two headed beast.

On one head, he ravages thru gun free cities where kids get "ILLEGAL" guns and kill themselves and innocents as well b/c someone is selling drugs on their corner, not wearing their colors, etc etc etc.
The other head of the beast lumbers in and out of psychiatric offices being prescribed God knows what which scrambles his/her mind to the point that everyone needs to die and he/she simply plots their rampage until such a time as they act upon it.

It doesnt matter how quick we jump to conclusions......we need only to look at the past history of these murders and see that 9/10, and in mass cases, 99/100 are either directly or indirectly linked by mental illness or gangland mentality.
 
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com7fy8

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Yeah, I'll bet you a penny that the next mass shooting will be committed by another person who fell thru the cracks of our broken mental healthcare system.
Well, how can people of this world know how to care for people with mental health problems? They use drugs and methods, for what can include a spiritual character problem. If you don't deal with the source, when it is spiritual and includes sin, then no method of chemicals and talking and behavior modification can really work right. If people have the character to kill people, because they do not know how to love, a chemical and methods can't change this; only God is able.

I'll further the bet by predicting that this will be the claim made by politicians seeking more restrictions on gun rights before anything is ever known about the shooter.
I just saw a documentary in which a killer said he couldn't remember shooting the woman. He claimed, therefore, that he was insane at the time. But he was already proven to make up lies to cover for himself. So, how can you go by what he would say to a psychiatrist? You can't "know" anything that he might tell you!

And I read that one predator "priest" lied to a "therapist", saying that by God's grace he was no longer violating boys . . . while in fact he was still doing it. So, if an evaluator just believes whatsoever a "patient" says, the evaluator is not going to know how the person really is.

Well, the rational ppl who recgonize that ALL the mass shooting spurring this "restriction" debate, refuse to see the root cause of these shootings.
root cause > I think it is sin. And when pretty much any person is effectively stopped from getting what that person treasures, he or she can become harmful and even a killer. Look at how people can kill their own unborn, just because they fear how their baby could interfere with the lives they want to live. The killer spirit is lurking behind any selfish way of living.

It doesnt matter how quick we jump to conclusions......we need only to look at the past history of these murders and see that 9/10, and in mass cases, 99/100 are either directly or indirectly linked by mental illness or gangland mentality.
Willingness to kill in order to get or protect what you want . . . this is not limited to being in gang members and people with more "obvious" mental issues. An everyday female can be psychologically terrorized into killing her own unborn, if she feels at risk of losing social support or the convenient life she wants to keep.

If you effectively mess with anyone having his or her pleasure which is a treasure for that person . . . anyone is at risk of acting like a lunatic.
 
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Aldebaran

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It's also worth pointing out the same idea of correlation I suggested earlier. Perhaps it isn't the medication that is leading to their actions, but the fact that they all have some mental disturbance for which the medication was prescribed.

Then it sounds like the medication didn't do what it was supposed to do. So why not blame the medication?
 
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com7fy8

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Then it sounds like the medication didn't do what it was supposed to do. So why not blame the medication?
In a mental health newsletter, I have read that mental health professionals know that medication can not cure a personality disorder.

A physical substance can not change a person's spiritual nature. Only God can. So, if secular people operate from the premise that there is only physical existence and no spiritual beings and therefore no spiritual-level character, then they can not effectively diagnose people so they can know the real problem and how to cure it. Only God is able to cure us at the spiritual roots of our emotional troubles and personality torments, for example 1 John 4:17.
 
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JGG

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Then it sounds like the medication didn't do what it was supposed to do. So why not blame the medication?

Well, when people use medication to treat any disorder there is a struggle to find the right medication. Doctors want to curb symptoms, but minimize side effects. You can't just say take some Valium and you'll feel better. Secondly, for the most part medication only ever really manages symptoms not the underlying problems. If someone suffers from a chemical imbalance, then all we can do is try to regulate those chemicals, we can't fix the reason they're imbalanced to begin with.

What you're suggesting is that when someone has a heart attack, and is put on medication for it, if they then have another heart attack we should blame the medication either because it must have caused the heart attack, or because it didn't prevent one. We should ignore the fact that the patient had a heart condition.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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How do you relate this to the gun violence problem?
 
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rambot

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It doesnt matter how quick we jump to conclusions......we need only to look at the past history of these murders and see that 9/10, and in mass cases, 99/100 are either directly or indirectly linked by mental illness or gangland mentality.
10/10 and 100/100 used a gun though.
 
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KarateCowboy

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This is really something. They actually have the nerve to demonize law abiding, responsible people. " clinging to their guns and religion ". It's like demonizing the thrifty savers when someone gambled himself into debt. " money control ". People like Obama who demonize the responsible... I see them as quite the threat to society.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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True. My credit card company demonizes me as a 'deadbeat' because I don't pay interest on a large balance.

"Dey's too much demonizin' goin' on roun' heah."
 
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TLK Valentine

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If they don't do it in a gun free zone, is the bet still on?
 
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bhsmte

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It depends what psychological issue the patient has, as to whether medication will be helpful.

You mention personality disorders and medication, is not often prescribed for these disorders, such as borderline personality disorder, because the abnormal behavior, is typically not driven by chemical issues in the brain.

For other psychological disorders, medications can be extremely helpful, as they do correct chemical imbalances, that are the main cause of abnormal behaviors.
 
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rambot

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A lot of people who've carried out mass murders would have described thsemlves as "law abiding responsibe pople" and often were that very thing. Up until 10 minutes before they shot up a bunch of folks.

It's too bad those people don't see how thier attitude contributes to a problem (albeit as a "sin of omission").
 
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KarateCowboy

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I know. And when a witch says she's not one, that's further proof, because it's exactly what you would expect a witch to say!
 
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