The greatest hypocrytes

[vincejohn]

Firstly I state that it is blessed to worship God on any day.
I consider the greatest hypocrytes the ministers who teach to pay tithes when this was a command given by God to Israel to pay ONLY to Levitecal priests. To prove you were a Levite you had to show actual documentation. And then these ministers trained by man doctrines teach you that the commandments have been abolished. They then tell you that the new Sabbath day rest is Sunday a man made commandment. So to take your money they show you Malaci 3 when they are not entitled to it and then teach you their new Sabbath day and lead you into foresaking Gods true Sabbath day.
'' To enter life keep the commandments '' Jesus Christ.
'' Not one jot or tittle shall be taken away from the law, He who teaches to keep these commandments shall be great in heaven and he who teaches not shall be least in heaven'' Jesus Christ.

 

[Willtor]

Sunday was adopted as the new Sabbath day because it was the day of Christ's resurrection. It was, in a sense, marking God's new Creation.

It might be beneficial to consider the reasons under which the Law was written the way it was. Not that it is insufficient, nor that it is false in any way, but that a particular interpretation of it may be inconsistent with the way it was intended, and for what purpose it exists.

I suppose the real question is: Do you think you should give money to your Church? Why or why not?

 

[NateTheGate]

we had a few weeks about this at our church, and the pastor was saying how he was mad at all the people who say "If you donate to our church or foundation, the Lord will return it to you with good fortune!" because that's not true, it's possible, but not likely. You should give to your church if you feel like it. If you're just doing it because everyone will think you're a bad person if you don't donate to the church, then you should find a new church. And if they're promising good fortune in exchange for donations, you should find a new church in that case too.

 

[Speeza]

Sunday was NOT adopted because Christ was sacrified on Sunday Willtor. Constantine adopted Sunday in 323(?) CE as the Christian holy day after eastern pagan practices which worshipped a sun god on "Sun"day - Constantine conflated the two very seperate faiths.

I have generally found Christians to be almost always the biggest hipocrites. My favorite is when one says "I don't believe Buddhism (or insert any Eastern practice) is a real religion." LOL. And what would there response be if a Buddhist said to them "I don't believe Christianity is a real religion"?

 

[vincejohn]

''And I cant stop If I say I'll never mention the Lord or speak in His name, His word burns in my heart like a fire. Its like a fire in my bones ,I am weary of holding it in.'' Jeremiah.

 

[Willtor]

Sunday was NOT adopted because Christ was sacrified on Sunday Willtor. Constantine adopted Sunday in 323(?) CE as the Christian holy day after eastern pagan practices which worshipped a sun god on "Sun"day - Constantine conflated the two very seperate faiths.

I have generally found Christians to be almost always the biggest hipocrites. My favorite is when one says "I don't believe Buddhism (or insert any Eastern practice) is a real religion." LOL. And what would there response be if a Buddhist said to them "I don't believe Christianity is a real religion"?

I didn't say he was sacrificed on Sunday. Merely that he was raised on a Sunday. We have it from Ignatius, Justin Martyr, and others that the practice of the Church was to meet on Sundays, at least as early as the second century. The notion that Constantine changed it to Sunday is bogus.

 

[vincejohn]

Well whoever changed it has now adopted it as a commandment and new Sabbath day. A commandment of man superceding the original given to Israel. The true Sabbath as explained to me by a Jewish person is Friday evening to Saturday evening. I light up a candle every Friday evening and then turn it off at bedtime and relight it on Saturday.

 

[bluered]

it does not matter

 

[vincejohn]

Yes it does matter.

 

[NateTheGate]

Jesus told us that the 2 greatest commandments were love the Lord your heart mind and soul, and love your neighbor as yourself. He also said that all of the laws we branched off from those 2. So as long as you do those, you're obeying all God's laws. So what does the sabbath fall under? You probably said Loving God, but it falls under both. Because when we go to church we worship and pray to God and show him our love for him, but we also pray for others and help others and comfort others. So if the sabbath is both of the great commandments, then it must be really important and we cannot disobey it in anyway. But Jesus and his diciples one day were picking wheat on the sabbath, that's not obeying the sabbath, and the pharisees asked him what was wrong with him, and he said that the sabbath is a day for doing good, not harm, he said if a shepherd's sheep falls into a ditch, should he abandon it there to die? Of course not. So if you're a doctor, you should still work on sunday, for the sick people need you. And a firefighter should work on the sabbath also, because we can't just leave a fire going until the sabbath is over. As long as we show kindness to others and love God every day and set aside time for just him, he'll be happy with you.

 

[Willtor]

Well whoever changed it has now adopted it as a commandment and new Sabbath day. A commandment of man superceding the original given to Israel. The true Sabbath as explained to me by a Jewish person is Friday evening to Saturday evening. I light up a candle every Friday evening and then turn it off at bedtime and relight it on Saturday.

Friday evening to Saturday evening is consistent with the ancient understanding of a day. They didn't measure from midnight to midnight like we do, today (no reason to).

My point, though, is not that it must be observed as Sunday, but that it is believed that the practice is of Apostolic origin. Whatever the origin, Ignatius cites his understanding of the Sabbath which marks the end of Creation. Was he wrong? I don't think so. Actually, this seems to be the foundation of the Sabbath (Exo 20:11). As a consequence, Ignatius points to the new Creation, which does not refute the old (there is still sin in the world, if I am not mistaken), but which is the basis for Christian perspective. Thus, Christians continue to mark the final day of Creation: Sunday.

 

[~A.Pure.Heart~]

Firstly I state that it is blessed to worship God on any day.
I consider the greatest hypocrytes the ministers who teach to pay tithes when this was a command given by God to Israel to pay ONLY to Levitecal priests. To prove you were a Levite you had to show actual documentation. And then these ministers trained by man doctrines teach you that the commandments have been abolished. They then tell you that the new Sabbath day rest is Sunday a man made commandment. So to take your money they show you Malaci 3 when they are not entitled to it and then teach you their new Sabbath day and lead you into foresaking Gods true Sabbath day.
'' To enter life keep the commandments '' Jesus Christ.
'' Not one jot or tittle shall be taken away from the law, He who teaches to keep these commandments shall be great in heaven and he who teaches not shall be least in heaven'' Jesus Christ.

It's only a hypocrisy if someone practices what they don't believe is true.

 

[vincejohn]

Jesus never broke any Sabbath laws. You are allowed to eat. Ignatious is not greater than the Bible.

 

[NateTheGate]

I didn't say that he broke the sabbath laws, but they thought he did. He was showing the people what you said, you can eat on the sabbath, and the other things I mentioned about the sabbath not being a day of harm

 

[Willtor]

Jesus never broke any Sabbath laws. You are allowed to eat. Ignatious is not greater than the Bible.

Nor do I think that he was asserting such a thing. However, he did venture an interpretation of the Scriptures that was widely held, and never once refuted by any other author (Orthodox or otherwise).

 

[vincejohn]

The Lord God spoke in Genesis that the Sabbath day would be a perpetual sign forever between Him and His children..the seventh day. But it is very difficult to go against what we have been brought up to believe when the word of God speaks otherwise.
''You break one commandment you have broken them all'' NT

 

[vincejohn]

Back soon Godwilling love you all in Holy Yeshua Jesus Christ. vinny

 

[Willtor]

The Lord God spoke in Genesis that the Sabbath day would be a perpetual sign forever between Him and His children..the seventh day. But it is very difficult to go against what we have been brought up to believe when the word of God speaks otherwise.
''You break one commandment you have broken them all'' NT

Let me give you an example of what I mean, that I think you can accept, and then I will relate it to the discussion in question.

When I was a child, I used to hate rainy days. Rain meant I still had to go to school, and it had the added benefit that it prevented me from playing outside (not that I was a particularly outdoorsy kid, but I sure didn't like to be limited). At that time, if I had read Matt 5:45, I might have been inclined to believe that God was bringing rain as a punishment; not specifically for me, but for both the righteous and unrighteous.

However, I now realize that in an agrarian society, rain is a blessing, not a curse. If I could go back in time and talk to my childhood self, would my childhood self be inclined to believe that I had become corrupted and wasn't paying attention to the obvious meaning of the passage? I hope not.

The actual meaning of a particular passage or doctrine is not always the most obvious, nor simplest do derive. Sometimes it takes some work, and may actually go against one's initial understanding.

That said, let me try to re-approach the notion of the Sabbath as a sign from God to Man. The world was created through and for Jesus Christ. Thus, in the Old Testament, the Sabbath arose to commemorate God's work and His sovereignty over His Creation. When Christ was raised from the dead, he heralded a new Creation. Christians, considering that the Sabbath should remain a sign from God to Man of His sovereignty over His Creation, chose to move the day of recognition to the end of the second, uncorruptable Creation.

You have argued in a way that causes me to believe that you believe that the movement was somehow a refutation of the first Creation. It is not so. The movement displays an acknowledgement of the fact that Christ through and for whom the first Creation was established, was also the One through and for whom the second Creation was established. By correlating the two, they signified a realization of the connection to the first.

What Ignatius (and the rest of the Church) understood, was that the Law was not refuted, but in fact it was kept. If the Sabbath had remained on Saturday, there was no acknowledgement of the new Creation, nor was there any connection between the God of the first and the God of the second. By moving it, they believed, as I do, that they were keeping the Law.

 

[Godslilgurlalways]

Okay, I went and found the verse you were talk about and it's talking about we rob God when we don't pay them verse below.

Malachi 3:8-9:Will a man rob God? Yet you rob me. "But you ask, 'How do we rob you?' In tithes and offerings. You are under a curse—the whole nation of you—because you are robbing me. This is from the NIV bible and below is the King James Verison.

Malachi 3:8-9: Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.


So if this was true that you only have to pray to to that type of preacher can you please write the verse out and what bible you got it from. B/c this doesn't add up with Lev. 27:30 or Dt. 12:17 or Mal. 3:10 if that was true it would go against what he already wrote it doesn't sound right God Bless and when I have money and things like that I pay my tiths God han't told me to stop or anyone else I know

 

[GrinningDwarf]

Yes it does matter.

Can you explain this in light of Romans 14:1-15:13? Specifically,

14:1Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. 2One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. 4Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.


5One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone. 8If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord.

9For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. 10You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat. 11It is written:
" 'As surely as I live,' says the Lord,
'every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will confess to God.' "12So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God. 13Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way. 14As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean. 15If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother for whom Christ died. 16Do not allow what you consider good to be spoken of as evil. 17For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men.

Seems to me that paul is saying here, effectively, if you want to worship on Sunday...great. If you want to worship on Saturday...great. Just worship and don't try to push your convictions off on others in these matters.