"The Greatest Conceivable Being"

[DogmaHunter]

You don't have to have access to nothing (a logical impossibility) to agree with Parmenides and Hume that from nothing, nothing comes. Nothing is a concept. That concept of the absence of everything, a universal negation.

Wait..... so in your opinion, nothing is a "logical impossibility"?
Nothingness is but a "concept"?

There goes your premise that first there was "nothing", I guess...
So, what are you talking about, really?

 

[DogmaHunter]

No i don't, but that's not even relevant.Not my statements, but they could have been, except for the definitiveness.It's not that relevant.

As causality is dependend on several ingredients being present, like a time dimension (causes happen BEFORE effects), I'ld say it is VERY VERY relevant.

 

[Hieronymus]

And how did you (or the one who originally said it) come up with this definition?

Philosophy and the meaning of words i guess.

Do you have an alternative view on this?

 

[DogmaHunter]

Philosophy and the meaning of words i guess.

Do you have an alternative view on this?

I like my definitions to be actually verifiable, instead of being dreamed up.

 

[Hieronymus]

As causality is dependend on several ingredients being present, like a time dimension (causes happen BEFORE effects), I'ld say it is VERY VERY relevant.

Then you're apparently incapable of logical abstract or conceptual thinking.

 

[Hieronymus]

I like my definitions to be actually verifiable, instead of being dreamed up.

Logic and reason, is what philosophy is based on, so you're just being silly.

 

[Hieronymus]

...in the universe.

Always, it's logical reasoning.

Science tells us that physics, including causality, breaks down at T = 0.

Exactly.
That's why we're asking what caused it.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Then you're apparently incapable of abstract of conceptual thinking.

What you really mean is "magical thinking".

Perhaps you care to actually respond to the post, instead of posting meaningless one-liners.

Again: causality is dependend on a time dimension, as causes happen BEFORE effects.
Time is an integral part of the universe. As such, there is no "before" T = 0.
To posit a cause BEFORE "T = 0" is like talking about a location north of the north pole.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Logic and reason, is what philosophy is based on, so you're just being silly.

Philosophy is useless here.

100 philosophers locked up in a room would never come up with the idea, for example, that time slows down relative to the observer as speed goes up.

Mere words and thought exercises are not going to make causality magically work in an environment where physics has broken down.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Always, it's logical reasoning.

Logical reasoning does not lead to the conclusion that the physics of the universe apply outside the universe.

Exactly.
That's why we're asking what caused it.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Logical reasoning does not lead to the conclusion that the physics of the universe apply outside the universe.

As I understand it, nowadays physicists (and scientists generally) don't really talk of "causes" anyway. It's about finding explanatory models that best account for the data.

 

[Hieronymus]

Logical reasoning does not lead to the conclusion that the physics of the universe apply outside the universe.

Correct, but we're not discussing physics.

It's okay.

 

[Hieronymus]

Philosophy is useless here.

Speak for yourself.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Correct, but we're not discussing physics.

Aren't we discussing the origins of the universe? If we are, then that's physics.

 

[Hieronymus]

Aren't we discussing the origins of the universe? If we are, then that's physics.

The origins of the universe are not physical.
At T=0 physics come into play, so apparently the cause of it is not physical.
You could say "Occams razor" and most will understand.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Correct, but we're not discussing physics.

Causality IS part of physics.

 

[DogmaHunter]

The origins of the universe are not physical.
At T=0 physics come into play, so apparently the cause of it is not physical.
You could say "Occams razor" and most will understand.

Causality is part of physics.

 

[Hieronymus]

No, it's logic.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

The origins of the universe are not physical.
At T=0 physics come into play, so apparently the cause of it is not physical.
You could say "Occams razor" and most will understand.

No, at that point, our understanding of physics breaks down.

 

[Hieronymus]

No, at that point, our understanding of physics breaks down.

But it's not about physics, it's about cause and effect, which are philosophical concepts, derived from logic and reason.
Like math perhaps.