"The Greatest Conceivable Being"

[anonymous person]

The thread I referenced is an apologetics thread.

The thread you referenced contains posts within in that are apologetic in nature which are prohibited in this forum.

 

[Davian]

No.

How could Jesus be alive after all this time?

 

[Davian]

...
The greatest conceivable being for example, would be morally perfect.

In the hypothetical let heaven stand for that eternal state of affairs wherein the redeemed dwell in intimate and uninterrupted communion and fellowship with God and hell stand for that eternal state of affairs wherein the unredeemed dwell apart from God.

Now, if such places existed, where would you prefer to dwell?

I am still not sure of what you mean by "God" or "morally perfect". Are we are speaking of, as we discussed here, your allegedly all-powerful-all-knowing deity that observes a child being raped, and has the ability to interfere, yet allows it to happen, and says nothing to anyone about it?

 

[toLiJC]

In another thread a poster asked for a refutation of the claim that God exists, and for purposes of this task he defined "God" as "The Greatest Conceivable Being".

I am wondering if we can expect persons who ask for putting their claim to scrutinity that they define their keyterm in a way that allows for it.
I don´t think that "The Greatest Conceivable Being exists" allows for serious investigation, mainly for two reasons:
1. It isn´t descriptive. It merely provides an unspecific value judgement, and on top of that it doesn´t provide any standards or criteria for determining "greatness".
2. "Conceivable" - by whom?

It´s like asking to disprove that "The Greatest Conceivable Lake" exists.

I wouldn´t even know how I could possibly go about investigating the accuracy of such vague, unspecific value judgements (of something that otherwise isn´t defined).

Unfortunately, said poster isn´t very cooperative, but refuses any help with making the claim in question sufficiently workable for the task he asks for.
Since the poster obviously leaves it to me to apply my subjective criteria of "Greatness" to given description of a certain being, the best I could come up with would be comparing existing god concepts to what I can conceive of as "greatest being" e.g. "I can conceive of a greater being than bible god, thus bible god isn´t "The Greatest Conceivable Being". Which, of course, is far from being able to demonstrate that the greatest being I can conceive of doesn´t exist.

So I thought I´d create this thread for constructive ideas regarding this issue.

ETA: The author of said thread emphasizes that he didn´t ask for a refutation of "God exists" but merely the "most persuasive argument" against it. Even though I do not see how this is of any relevance for the topic of this thread, I agree with him: There´s a difference between "refutation" and "most persuasive argument against". I apologize for my paraphrasing and hope that no major damage has been done.

how is it possible that such a brief definition of God be fully descriptive/expository, and why must be when either a man believes there is a God or not?!, because there have been many people who never believed there is a/in God even after they received many testimonies, explanations and a lot of evidence for His existence

Blessings

 

[anonymous person]

How could Jesus be alive after all this time?

Derail.

 

[anonymous person]

I am still not sure of what you mean by "God" or "morally perfect". Are we are speaking of, as we discussed here, your allegedly all-powerful-all-knowing deity that observes a child being raped, and has the ability to interfere, yet allows it to happen, and says nothing to anyone about it?

Derail

 

[Davian]

Derail.

Evasion. The subject is, "The Greatest Conceivable Being". Is not being alive greater than being dead?

 

[anonymous person]

Evasion. The subject is, "The Greatest Conceivable Being". Is not being alive greater than being dead?

I agree. Funny thing is, if I had made the statement that "it is greater to be alive than not", I would have had people acting astounded and bewildered and saying to me: "That is just a value judgment!!!!" or "How do you know that!!!???" or "That statement is not verifiable or falsifiable!!!!!"

I sure hope quatona asks you how you know it is greater to be alive than not. I can't wait to see this!

 

[Hieronymus]

God is not conceivable for man on earth.

 

[Davian]

Derail

Evasion. The subject is, "The Greatest Conceivable Being". I am just confirming that your conception of "The Greatest Conceivable Being" allows for that "being" to observe a child being raped, and has the ability to interfere, yet allows it to happen. Does not WLC have something you can cut and paste into this thread for this?

 

[Davian]

I agree. Funny thing is, if I had made the statement that "it is greater to be alive than not", I would have had people acting astounded and bewildered and saying to me: "That is just a value judgment!!!!" or "How do you know that!!!???" or "That statement is not verifiable or falsifiable!!!!!"

I sure hope quatona asks you how you know it is greater to be alive than not. I can't wait to see this!

In the meantime: how could Jesus be alive after all this time? Can't you just appeal to your defeater-defeater, or say "magic"?

But then, should the "The Greatest Conceivable Being" need to appeal to magic?

 

[Hieronymus]

Evasion. The subject is, "The Greatest Conceivable Being". I am just confirming that your conception of "The Greatest Conceivable Being" allows for that "being" to observe a child being raped, and has the ability to interfere, yet allows it to happen. Does not WLC have something you can cut and paste into this thread for this?

I don't know what WLC is, but i think every honest person will admit it's a painful truth that God allows suffering.
On the other hand, ironically, suffering and hitting the bottom of existence somehow (pick your horror scenario) often seems to draw a person to God, makes a man seek Him.
Also, justice will be done.
The unrepentant wicked will get their justice too, and the sufferer will be saved (at least, more likely).
But that's after this life in the flesh.
So yeah, the road can be extremely bumpy.
"Life sucks" for many people.
But the destination is apparently worth the "birth pains".
Ask any mother. (okay, most mothers..)

(edit: My apologies for writing this in "philosophy" subform, didn't pay attention...)

 

[anonymous person]

In the meantime: how could Jesus be alive after all this time? Can't you just appeal to your defeater-defeater, or say "magic"?

But then, should the "The Greatest Conceivable Being" need to appeal to magic?

If you can explain to me how Jesus being alive after all this time is pertinent to this thread subject I will answer your question.

 

[quatona]

how is it possible that such a brief definition of God be fully descriptive/expository, and why must be when either a man believes there is a God or not?!, because there have been many people who never believed there is a/in God even after they received many testimonies, explanations and a lot of evidence for His existence

I don´t understand what these questions have to do with the topic of the thread. Could you clarify how they are meant to address it, please?

 

[anonymous person]

I don´t understand what these questions have to do with the topic of the thread. Could you clarify how they are meant to address it, please?

Could you please address Davian's off-topicness as well?

 

[quatona]

Could you please address Davian's off-topicness as well?

I didn´t address off-topicness, I asked a poster who replied to me personally to explain how his response related to my OP.

No, I am not going to call each single off-topic post. I might, though, ask people who continuously try to derail this thread for their own purposes to refrain from doing so. Just like I did with you.

 

[quatona]

I agree. Funny thing is, if I had made the statement that "it is greater to be alive than not", I would have had people acting astounded and bewildered and saying to me: "That is just a value judgment!!!!" or "How do you know that!!!???" or "That statement is not verifiable or falsifiable!!!!!"

I sure hope quatona asks you how you know it is greater to be alive than not. I can't wait to see this!

That would be a completely on-topic question. Why don´t you ask him yourself? I mean, it would be enlightening to see two persons who claim to have a firm grasp on what´s "great/greater/greatest" discussing with each other - or even trying to tell each other that this can´t be known.

Btw. you never had me or anyone here using multiple exclamation or question marks.

 

[Davian]

I don't know what WLC is,

William Lane Craig. A Christian apologist, and a popular a cut-n-paste source for users in this forum such as anonymous person, Jeremy E Walker, and Elioenai26.

but i think every honest person will admit it's a painful truth that God allows suffering.

Just like he doesn't exist at all, I know.

But, the subject is "The Greatest Conceivable Being", and I was just recalling that A.P. does not think highly of those that allow such suffering to happen, hence my question to him on this.

link

 

[Hieronymus]

Aha, William Lane Craig, reasonable faith, the Kalam Cosmological Argument etc..
I like how he makes a minced meat out of Richard D. and other atheists / God-haters / theophobes / materialists, with sound arguments.
I guess it's why WLC is hated so much...

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Aha, William Lane Craig, reasonable faith, the Kalam Cosmological Argument etc..
I like how he makes a minced meat out of Richard D. and other atheists / God-haters / theophobes / materialists, with sound arguments.
I guess it's why WLC is hated so much...

You haven't watched many debates, have you?