The great thinker?

[paulnoel]

Dr Norman Maclean was walking with a forester friend one day when the conversation turned to evolution, which , for the forester, had replaced belief in God and the creation.
Said Dr Maclean, "You believe that all the beauty you can see came by evolution; but the question is, how did evolution come?" "By accident, so they say," was the reply. "Accident!" said Dr Maclean. "In the year 1863 two great scientists, Lord Kelvin and Baron Liebig, were walking in the country and came to a view like this. Do you believe, asked Lord Kelvin that the grass and flowers which we see around us grew by mere chemical forces? "no" Answered Baron Liebig, "No more than I could believe that a book of botany describing them could grow by mere chemical force."
Then Dr Maclean said to the forester, "If you came upon a book describing your conifers and all the trees in the forest, would you believe the book grew up by accident." Don't be so silly" said the forester, "a book requires a thinker behind it." "So does evolution," Dr Maclean concluded.

Just something to think about, no more, no less, just a thought. ​

 

[Valkhorn]

Here we go again.

Evolution has nothing to do with the origin of the universe.

 

[HRE]

Oi Vey.

I think I just hit my breaking point.

Goodbye everyone, at least until I restore some faith in my fellow humans...

 

[flameingcrouton]

whre exactly does evolution begin?

 

[mikeynov]

whre exactly does evolution begin?

Probably once you have self-replicators with heritable variation.

So, in principle, evolution could have been taking place in the hypothesized RNA world.

 

[tocis]

Dr Norman Maclean was walking with a forester friend one day when the conversation turned to evolution, which , for the forester, had replaced belief in God %()/%(&/=)($/% CARRIER LOST

PRATT firewall engaged - connection lost.

 

[GoSeminoles!]

The only interesting question contained in the OP is whether the poster has read any of this forum at all, ever. If so, then he would have known that his question has been asked and answered about a zillion times.

Yawn. Do something interesting.

 

[Dal M.]

At least he hasn't concluded that evolution equals atheism. Indeed, I wouldn't be surprised to hear a theistic evolutionist say something similar.

 

[Glass*Soul]

"Don't be so silly" said the forester, "a book requires a thinker behind it." "So does evolution," Dr Maclean concluded.

Books are not self-replicating. That's where this analogy breaks down.

 

[maha]

The OP did qualify it by saying it was just something to think about; no more, no less. However...

Here is something else to think about. Why do humans think that just because the sky is beautiful and flowers are pretty that there must be some intelligent design behind everything? It's easy to think that when looking at aesthetically pleasing components of nature, but it's picking and choosing. What about the really ugly and horrific stuff?

Why not look at another aspect of nature and tell me what the rationale behind the "intelligent design" of it was. Let's look at a lion for instance. She was severely injured by a pack of hyena and suffered a devastating injury to her thigh. She had an open wound about 10 inches long and three or four inches wide. Her flesh was exposed to the elements and became infected. After days of lingering in agony, without being able to walk, she eventually died--alone, cold, starving, and dehydrated. Is that the miraculous beauty that God created for Man to enjoy?

Someone might say, "Oh, well animals are different, they deserve to live and die like animals." So I'll propose another scenario in that case. What about a little 8 y/o girl lying in a hospital bed, periodically vomitting up blood and dying of cancer. Tell me about the beautiful wonder and awe that God intended for her to enjoy.

 

[Hydra009]

Here is something else to think about. Why do humans think that just because the sky is beautiful and flowers are pretty that there must be some intelligent design behind everything? It's easy to think that when looking at aesthetically pleasing components of nature, but it's picking and choosing. What about the really ugly and horrific stuff?

The Fall.

I agree, though, the claim is rife with congnitive dissonance.

Why not look at another aspect of nature and tell me what the rationale behind the "intelligent design" of it was. Let's look at a lion for instance. She was severely injured by a pack of hyena and suffered a devastating injury to her thigh. She had an open wound about 10 inches long and three or four inches wide. Her flesh was exposed to the elements and became infected. After days of lingering in agony, without being able to walk, she eventually died--alone, cold, starving, and dehydrated. Is that the miraculous beauty that God created for Man to enjoy?

That reminds me of a similar story: in the savannah at night, a leopard kills a gazelle and carries it up a tree to feast on it in peace. But a lioness, starving from a prolonged drought, climbs up that tree and takes the leopard's kill (the leopard abandons his kill and sleeps, hungry no doubt, on a higher branch), which is very unusual because lions are not nearly as good at climbing as leopards. During the night, the branch that the lioness was sleeping on breaks and the startled lioness crashes through several branches only to painfully whack a branch that doesn't break. So the lioness, with a broken back, hangs in pure agony for hours. When she fell, she dropped the gazelle carcass, which hyenas devour during her torment. The hyenas stick around for the larger meal, and sure enough, the lioness's branch eventually breaks and the hyenas messily devour her.

Like you said, stuff like this is difficult to reconcile with the concept of a loving God.

 

[Magnus Vile]

[size=+1]All Things Dull and Ugly [/size]

All things dull and ugly,
All creatures short and squat,
All things rude and nasty,
The Lord God made the lot.

Each little snake that poisons,
Each little wasp that stings,
He made their brutish venom.
He made their horrid wings.

All things sick and cancerous,
All evil great and small,
All things foul and dangerous,
The Lord God made them all.

Each nasty little hornet,
Each beastly little squid--
Who made the spikey urchin?
Who made the sharks? He did!

All things scabbed and ulcerous,
All pox both great and small,
Putrid, foul and gangrenous,
The Lord God made them all.

Amen.

Lyrics: Eric Idle
Music: Traditional
Arranged by: John Du Prez

 

[spanner365]

The Fall.

Silly you. The lion had to suffer because a human being ate a piece of fruit over six thousand years ago. When will you ever learn-God is a just God.

 

[billwald]

What does beauty have to do with evolution?

 

[Hydra009]

Books are not self-replicating. That's where this analogy breaks down.

Plus, books are known to be "designed" due to people actually watching them being made by other people. This analogy is obviously flawed.

What does beauty have to do with evolution?

The OP might be TE-oreinted, but the argument runs essentially the same lines as the argument for design that IDists use. Pretty flowers, therefore God.