Job 33:6

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If someone cannot accept this ^, then it is because there is something else stopping them. It is no longer a discussion of reason, science or evidence, but rather a discussion of personal feelings.

I'll tell ya, when i first was exposed to plate tectonics and uniformitarianism, I was devastated. I felt betrayed, I felt hurt, I felt defeated, and upset.

Because it felt like society, my friends, my family, my fellow people, had betrayed me. As if they had lied to me, about creation. I was really hurt.

But when you take that step, and you give plate tectonics a chance, and you test the ideas and study it and learn about it, you will find an entire world of scientific truth, and further, Gods enlightening truth, before you, Gods truth shown in ways that never before could ever be understood in such a beautiful way.

I was afraid of the unknown, afraid that i would leave God forever. But I came out in love with my God, and in awe of His power and beautiful creation, in ways that "flood geology" people will never see or know, or ever experience. and for that, I thank my Lord every day.

Best of luck to you @mindlight
 
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Blade

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One can get lost in this. All I will say is.. we know man is what 6k years old. But the earth? yeah..could have been here 1 or billions of years already. Yet if nothing is impossible with our Father. My dad who LOVED to show the SDA that lived behind us a (by mans words) 6million year old rock pig skull. At that time my dad was not saved lol.
 
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Job 33:6

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im going to throw one more wrench into "flood geology". Earlier we talked about the pre cambrian being pre flood and post cambrian being post flood. Well, if there are nests built by dinosaurs, what does that mean? Did the dinosaurs build their nests and give birth during the flood? Of course not. So, next thing you know we are adjusting things so that the cenozoic or post dinosaurs, are post flood rocks, and pre cenozoic, pre the K-T boundary, are pre flood rocks.

But this opens up a new set of problems. Now we have a whole succession of fauna, cambrian, ordovician, silurian, devonian, carboniferous, and permian rocks, full of fossils, in a succession predating the flood. Including...ding!

Old Earth Geology

All the rocks of new york, which pre date the mesozoic. Now we are in deep trouble, trying to explain the mountains of new york, without a Global flood to put it all down.
 
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MyGivenNameIsKeith

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the Bible states in Genesis 1:12 - "And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good." The questions you have for the order of plant life are explained right there when you take into account that the things were created in the order that the are listed. To examine the "why" of how the flood happened naturally would answer your questions more sufficiently. One can surmise throughout scriptures, it is revealed. Solomon stated that there was no new thing under the sun, so this would lead you to conclude that the end of the world is similar to the beginning. Hence the theory for an asteroid (the star of wormwood), causing the flood. In turn this would open up the deep (fountains of the deep), amidst a dry arid land where the first rain was not even seen until 1656 years after it was created according to the genealogy of Adam. Time and pressure are things people tend to overlook when it comes to historical timeline models because if you do not include specific events in observations and evidence, one draws the wrong conclusions. For example a diamond can be synthetically made given a piece of coal and enough heat and pressure, and significantly less time would be needed to produce it than to naturally let it happen over millions of years as science would tell you. But science itself proves it can be done without millions of years thereby refuting itself. Trust the word of God, rather than questioning it. I think God knows better than we do. This is the type of thinking that got Adam and Eve in trouble in Eden. They felt they knew better than God did according to what they thought. The Grand Canyon is a good display of historical evidence concerning rock layers though. And for a dessert, the only place "gopher wood" is found, is in North America near the Florida Georgia region near the state line. So truly Noah's ark would have been made in the USA. Hence why it never fell apart. Also, it may be concluded from scriptures that indeed land was all one mass at one time, and after the flood, was split up, as evidenced by the verses concerning Peleg and Reu, as it states because in those days was the earth divided.
 
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Anguspure

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Assuming that the geological rock layers are the result of the great flood and the fossils formed in them mainly due to the flood. Why did the fossils fall in the rock layers that they did?
Relative densities (of organisms) and successive waves of activity affecting different populations as the tectonic and flooding activity progressed.
It is also intersting that vertical fossilised trees have been observed passing through successive strata.
 
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Job 33:6

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Relative densities (of organisms) and successive waves of activity affecting different populations as the tectonic and flooding activity progressed.
It is also intersting that vertical fossilised trees have been observed passing through successive strata.


 
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dqhall

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Here is a cool tid bit as well. google the rate at which the continental plates move (about the rate our finger nails grow, 5 cm per year). Open up google earth, and measure the distance between the mid oceanic ridge and the eastern united states (3-4 hundred million cm), and take a wild guess as to how long at the current rate it would take for the continents, africa and the north america, to move as far away from eachother as they are today.

Then, just google the ages of rock along the coast of north america and africa.

You will find that the distance between north america and the mid oceanic ridge (some 400 million cm, divided by the rate at which continents move, 5cm per year, gives you 80 million years.

atlantic_seafloor_crust_age_globe_big.jpg


The same amount of time given by other independent dating methods.

This is like...not asking for much here, it could not be more simple and clear.
I did some undergraduate course work in geology. I was told at the mid-Atlantic rift zone a plate was moving at the rate of about an inch per year. Over the course of millions of years crust that was below the ocean was thrust up upon the continental plate boundary and onto dry land. This caused mountains to form. In the mountains are limestone fossils of shellfish. In other areas a gentle lifting of continental crust lifted hardened sediment beds above sea level without forming mountains. A basin might have thick sedimentary rock strata miles deep as the earth is very old. All this movement of the earth's crust causes earthquakes. In other areas one plate will plunge under another plate forming a deep oceanic trench such as the Marianas Trench. If God ever rescued a family and their livestock from a great flood, it must have been a smaller flood like what happens during when rivers flood after tropical storms or monsoonal rains. Hurricane Katrina killed 1800 people.
 
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dqhall

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The Anadarko Basin in Oklahoma contains several vertical miles of sedimentary rocks. Sediments such as sand, silt and clay became hardened into rock over eons of time. Geologists looking for oil studied drill core samples of the rocks in their search for oil. These sediments were deposited in a marine environment. Eons later after the column had hardened to rock under intense pressure and heat, the basin was lifted and the top layers of rock were exposed above sea level. The Himalayas are rising an inch a year. The East African Rift Valley is sinking. In Miami, not only are they dealing with sea level rise, but also land subsidence due to geological factors. Subsidence is cause some South Pacific islands to sink while the ocean rises.
 
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Anguspure

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Interesting videos.

Neither of them deny the contention that fossils, particularly tree fossils are laid down as a result of a catastrophic event and so the flood remains a possible explanation for the phenomena.

Although second one supplies an alternative way in by which trees might be found crossing strata, this is only a competing hypothesis which without corroborating evidence does nothing to injure the Creationist contention.

Furthermore nobody is claiming "slam dunk" evidence here. Rather the available evidence is used to support the story of the flood in a cumulative argument.
 
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Job 33:6

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Interesting videos.

Neither of them deny the contention that fossils, particularly tree fossils are laid down as a result of a catastrophic event and so the flood remains a possible explanation for the phenomena.

Although second one supplies an alternative way in by which trees might be found crossing strata, this is only a competing hypothesis which without corroborating evidence does nothing to injure the Creationist contention.

Furthermore nobody is claiming "slam dunk" evidence here. Rather the available evidence is used to support the story of the flood in a cumulative argument.

The bottom line is that, polystrate fossils just dont cross vast swatchs of geologic eras or eons or periods etc. Which basically defeats the whole point behind the young earth argument.

And yes, of course floods leave behind deposits, nothing new there. The key is being able to distinguish between a local catastrophic (or regular every day) flood, and a global one.

"Polystrate" Tree Fossils
 
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Anguspure

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The bottom line is that, polystrate fossils just dont cross vast swatchs of geologic eras or eons or periods etc. Which basically defeats the whole point behind the young earth argument.

And yes, of course floods leave behind deposits, nothing new there. The key is being able to distinguish between a local catastrophic (or regular every day) flood, and a global one.

"Polystrate" Tree Fossils
So we have a "slam dunk" defeater here? I doubt it. Man is still learning, but still hasn't learnt that he has much to learn.
 
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joshua 1 9

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This just isnt adding up. So dinosaurs did live before the flood, but for some reason, only show up in cenozoic rock. Why not in paleozoic?
They were destroyed when Pangea was broken up. Satan was tampering with God's creation to get His creation to destroy itself. Because he was angry with God for throwing him from Heaven down to the Earth.
 
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Job 33:6

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I think the value in old earth geology is the explanatory power.

Young earth ideas, if you really take time to challenge them, continually lead to confusion. You propose one idea, and you try to keep logic consistent as you carry that idea through tests of thought. And you will find yourself lost, time and time and time again (only after you acquire enough knowledge to recognize the challenges that are present).

I challenge both old and young earth concepts, regularly. Whether its at work when im studying some geology related concepts, or if im doing research or just as a hobby just going out and studying rocks. And time and time and time again, the young earth concepts only lead to confusion, or uncertainty.

But, with enough knowledge, through an old earth understanding of the earth, if you challenge ideas, and push those ideas to the limit, you will find, success, time and time again, as you test it, as you challenge it.

There will be those who deny old earth evidences. They will do so to the grave, regardless of if they know anything about geology at all.

But for those who are intellectually sincere, and for those who take time and put effort into learning and testing and understanding geology (which takes years and many headaches to do, its not easy), they will come to find that old earth geology, is logically superior, and has greater explanatory power than young earth catostrophism, 100% of the time and 100 fold.
 
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SkyWriting

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One answer I found in Answers in Genesis implies a gradual covering of the earth by the flood, superheated water from the deeps killing many of the marine organisms first.

There would still be evidence of "Mixed Layers" of fossil families everywhere you looked.
Both current marine animals and trilobites everywhere.
trilobites-1393889944421-articleLarge.jpg
 
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SkyWriting

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But for those who are intellectually sincere, and for those who take time and put effort into learning and testing and understanding geology (which takes years and many headaches to do, its not easy),

Many hours of study will get one an adequate understanding.
 
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Job 33:6

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Many hours of study will get one an adequate understanding.

I wish i could give a number. I think that if you get a 4 year degree or just enjoy reading a ton of books on geology, maybe after a few years, people might be able to hold a general discussion about the earth. Advanced geology would probably take getting a degree or reading through technical books, like...professional geologist study guides and things like that. Then the most experience i would say is going to be derived in the field, actually doing hands on work. You can read a million text books, but nothing really sizes up to physically seeing and working with things.

So, maybe just a few years of regular reading of books and research papers with a handful of field expeditions, at least would be enough to respond to my old earth geology posts.
 
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SkyWriting

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So, maybe just a few years of regular reading of books and research papers with a handful of field expeditions, at least would be enough to respond to my old earth geology posts.

Yes, it looks like the earth is old.
ALL past events are a matter of Faith.
 
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mindlight

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I wish i could give a number. I think that if you get a 4 year degree or just enjoy reading a ton of books on geology, maybe after a few years, people might be able to hold a general discussion about the earth. Advanced geology would probably take getting a degree or reading through technical books, like...professional geologist study guides and things like that. Then the most experience i would say is going to be derived in the field, actually doing hands on work. You can read a million text books, but nothing really sizes up to physically seeing and working with things.

So, maybe just a few years of regular reading of books and research papers with a handful of field expeditions, at least would be enough to respond to my old earth geology posts.

Yeh right!!! Let me rephrase what you said as I just read it.

"My learning and field experience means that I can explain and indeed determine in the first place the patterns in the rocks to a degree that no untrained expert can (untrained of course also includes creation scientists with PhDs and decades of field experience). Further that given my expertise in this and my understanding of geological processes which on occasions have produced analogous results to the ones we see I can explain how these patterns form at a distance of 1000s, no millions, no billions of years! My interpretation of the results that I have shared with so much authority must be the right one because I am the one who drew the picture or the diagram on which other people commentate in the first place. My analysis is so strong that it does not need an audit trail accounting for the millions of potential variables that might have influenced my conclusions. My expertise is so magnificent that I can certainly assert on the basis of my expertise that I am right and everyone who argues with me is wrong. I can account for all the localised exceptions to the statements that I make and provide the most reasonable sounding rationalisations as to why evidence is missing when it is."

Or am I wrong ?
 
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