The Gospel Under Siege

[Bible Highlighter]

Yes Sue I saw the ESV that you obviously quoted from after I posted. Thanks for getting back, I should have clarified that and saved you some typing .

You mentioned Roman's 8 out around the verses 3-4 as I recall. I like to read 1-10 where we find what Paul is talking about is the believers positional truth. This is not about single sin but for those who have Christ and the Spirit. The sinful flesh is dead. Note he doesn't say there is no sin, in fact calls the flesh sin and dead. It's an amazing portion. We can't walk according to the spirit unless we have The Spirit. Paul is saying out around verse 8-10 that this is these folks position. God doesn't judge us by the flesh but the spirit. But here it is in the ESV, take extra note of verses 9 and 10:
8 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.a]">[a] 2 For the law of the Spirit of life has set youb]">[b] free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. 3 For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin,c]">[c] he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. 6 For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. 7 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot. 8 Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him. 10 But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Romans 8:13 gives you two choices in life. Live after the flesh (sin) and die, vs. put to death the misdeeds of the body (sin) by the Spirit and live.

“Death” is the second death.
“Live” here is in reference to eternal life.

Romans 8:8 says
“So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.”

What is the flesh?

Galatians 5:19 says,
“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these ; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness,”

Most Christians who quote Romans 8:1 love to quote from a Modern Translation that removes the following key words of the truth.

Romans 8:1 (KJB) says,
“There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.”

 

[Christsfreeservant]

Romans 8:13 gives you two choices in life. Live after the flesh (sin) and die, vs. put to death the misdeeds of the body (sin) by the Spirit and live.

“Death” is the second death.
“Live” here is in reference to eternal life.

Romans 8:8 says
“So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.”

What is the flesh?

Galatians 5:19 says,
“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these ; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness,”

Most Christians who quote Romans 8:1 love to quote from a Modern Translation that removes the following key words of the truth.

Romans 8:1 (KJB) says,
“There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.”

I agree! Most modern translations, though, don't remove that phrase, they just don't have it in there twice.

Romans 8:1-4: “There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. 3 For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.”

Most "Christians" who don't like that phrase, don't like it in verse 4, either. They don't want to accept that if we don't walk according to the Spirit and if we do walk according to the flesh, that we are not going to inherit eternal life with God, but we will die in our sins. Thus, those are probably not real Christians.

 

[Dave G.]

Romans 8:13 gives you two choices in life. Live after the flesh (sin) and die, vs. put to death the misdeeds of the body (sin) by the Spirit and live.

“Death” is the second death.
“Live” here is in reference to eternal life.

Romans 8:8 says
“So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.”

What is the flesh?

Galatians 5:19 says,
“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these ; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness,”

Most Christians who quote Romans 8:1 love to quote from a Modern Translation that removes the following key words of the truth.

Romans 8:1 (KJB) says,
“There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.”

Yes, I like the old version of Romans 8:1 too and far too many preachers turn that comma into a period and never finish the statement ( I know some in fact). But I quoted what Sue uses to be on the same page with her.. However again, these people out in Romans 8:9-10 weren't doing that. It's clear to me that born again believers don't live by the flesh. I know when I received the Spirit, conviction against the fleshly acts kicked in. The Spirit will lead you away from sin. But when we sin ( because it does happen) we confess and He is just and right to forgive us 1 John 1:9. I call that leading by the flesh, which we just saw should be dead ! Non the less we live life in these bodies and our righteousness is in Christ not us who come to Him. 1 John 2:1 New King James Version
My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

One day we will have glorified bodies and sin will no longer be an issue. We don't need to be hemmed up over this stuff, lest we become like the pharisees. Your sin was dealt with at the cross, claim the victory with Him ! Meanwhile, I doubt the individual in church who had a short burst of emotionalism, raised his or her hand to receive Christ then rolled on out of there to their old lives living like hell itself, ever received the Spirit. They weren't transformed. Those who continue ( constantly) in the flesh weren't saved. I know from my own life though that you can be changed very quickly still having some things that need sorting out. This is why sanctification is an ongoing process. But we are saved by grace through faith ( Ephesians 2:8-9 ), you will never get to heaven having received Christ by works. You don't get Him by works. He made that perfectly evident when with us on earth in story after story. Salvation is salvation unto good works. It's not that there are no works, they just don't save you, the 613 laws never did anything but show or reveal sin. Jesus came to wrap that up and He says He did it in His two commands, to love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind and soul. He said the second is like it, to love your neighbor as yourself. With these two commands he said all the law is fulfilled in Matthew 22:40 and reiterated in Galatians 5:14. IE it's a finished work, He did it at the cross where there was blood and when He rose again from the grave you can be sure the devil said oh cr*p.. Done deal, the veil was torn, everyone has access . It Is Finished. Do we live in sin, no. Is there sin, yes. This is the very conflict Paul writes so much about. But alas we have an advocate, not a scape goat. It's not an annual repeated sacrifice, it's one time forever. In that there is one salvation, your sins were washed by the blood. We are free of the bonds of sin in Him, that bond was broken by the blood of Christ and when we accept Him there is a change, you should be set free not captured. We just read of that in those first verses of Romans 8.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I agree! Most modern translations, though, don't remove that phrase, they just don't have it in there twice.

Romans 8:1-4: “There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. 3 For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.”

Most "Christians" who don't like that phrase, don't like it in verse 4, either. They don't want to accept that if we don't walk according to the Spirit and if we do walk according to the flesh, that we are not going to inherit eternal life with God, but we will die in our sins. Thus, those are probably not real Christians.

Dear Sue:

I did not want to get into this kind of discussion.
But seeing you are wanting to continue this kind of discussion, I cannot help but to take a stand for the truth (So that you may know).

Okay, getting down to business:

Romans 8:1 is not repeated exactly anywhere else in the Bible. Romans 8:4 is refering to walking not after the flesh but after the Spirit in regards to fulfillling the righteousness of the Law. Romans 8:4 does not mention the “Condemnation” like Romans 8:1 does. We learn about the Condemnation in John 3:19-21.

19 “And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.” (John 3:19-21).​

The Condemnation is that light is come into the world (JESUS) and men loved darkness (sin) rather than the light (JESUS) because their deeds were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the light.

Strange how many Christians today think they can sin and still be saved. Apparently they do not understand what John 3:19-21 plainly says.

Anyways, getting back on topic, Romans 8:1 says that there is no condemnation (i.e. the condemnation mentioned in John 3:19-21) to those who are in Christ Jesus who WALK NOT AFTER THE FLESH BUT AFTER THE SPIRIT. Romans 8:13 is the closest to what Romans 8:1 says, but it does not mention the word condemnation (Which is key). For the Belief Alone Proponent or the Sin and Still Be Saved Salvationist will say that Romans 8:13 is dealing with physical death and not spiritual death in the Lake of Fire if they live after the flesh. They can twist and distort Scripture if Romans 8:1 is not there in it's entirety. Hence, why many of them (not all of them) prefer Modern Translations.

The majority of the New Testament portions of Modern Translations is based on the Greek texts from Westcott and Hort who were appeared to be Christian but they were occultists. They based their Greek text on two manuscripts. One manuscript was from an Orthodox monastry, and the other was from a Catholic vault. So pretty much all your Modern Translations are Catholic/Orthodox in origin. For the Catholics tried to stop the spread of the King James Bible with the gunpowder plot in blowing up a large section of New England along with it's king. Now, I do not want to say anymore without condemning myself on the forums. But hopefully you can put two and two together and figure it out that the Modern Translations (While helpful sometimes in updating the 1600's English) should not be our final Word of authority.

In fact, I hope you will at least look at the CF thread link I provided.

30 Reasons why the KJB is the divine and pure Word of God for today.

 

[Christsfreeservant]

Dear Sue:

Romans 8:1 is not repeated exactly anywhere else in the Bible. Romans 8:4 is refering to walking not after the flesh but after the Spirit in regards to fulfillling the righteousness of the Law. Romans 8:4 does not mention the “Condemnation” like Romans 8:1 does...

"There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. 3 For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. 6 For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. 7 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot. 8 Those who are in the flesh cannot please God."

It is all one complete thought. The word "for" ties the verses together. So, the "no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus" carries over and continues throughout the complete thought. There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus because the law of the Spirit of life set us free from the law of sin and death, because God has done what the law could not do, thus, by sending his Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Basically the thought is this. The law could not save us because it was weakened by the flesh. We could never be perfect. We could not keep the law perfectly. The people in the OT were not saved by keeping the law, because they could not keep it perfectly. They were saved the same way we are, by faith in Jesus Christ. Theirs was a looking forward to the promise and ours is looking back to the promise being fulfilled in Christ.

But the Lord did make it clear that a life of disobedience = unbelief, and in Hebrews 3-4, we are told that we are to consider what happened to the Israelites in the wilderness who did not enter into God's eternal rest because of disobedience; because of unbelief, so that we don't do what they did and thus we not enter into God's rest.

Ok, so for those in Christ Jesus, we are not under condemnation because of what Jesus did for us on that cross in putting our sin to death and delivering us from our slavery to sin. But it doesn't end there. He didn't die just so we would no longer be under condemnation and so we could be forgiven our sins and go to heaven when we die. He did this "in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit."

Okay, so what is this saying? Verse four refers back to verse 1. Jesus, in his death, satisfied the righteous requirement of the law for us who are in Christ Jesus so that we would no longer be under condemnation. But, who are we who are in Christ Jesus and who are no longer under condemnation? We are those who walk (in lifestyle, in conduct, in practice) NOT according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.

And, this message is taught all throughout the NT, that we must walk according to the Spirit and not according to the flesh if we want to have eternal life with God and if we want to not be under condemnation. For, if we walk according to the flesh (in darkness), we are going to die in our sins, not have eternal life with God. For, our salvation is not a one-time experience. It is a walk of faith that must continue till the day we die.

So, if we read this as one complete thought, the message has not been lost. We can't quote verse 1 out of context and build a doctrine around it, just like we can't quote Eph 2:8-9 or Rom 10:9-10 independent of their context and build a doctrine of salvation around those verses. The consistent message throughout the NT is that our faith and our salvation are present tense or they are not there. And, our salvation is not just forgiveness of sins but it is deliverance from slavery to sin and empowerment to live righteously. If we are depending on some words we said in a prayer once, we are in for a big surprise on judgment day.

Anyway, I don't believe the message is lost in the NIV84, the ESV or the NASB. The message is still clear that the only way we are not under condemnation is if we walk according to the Spirit and not according to the flesh; if we sow to the Spirit and not to the flesh; if we practice righteousness and not wickedness. This is all over the NT.

But, that is all I am going to say on this subject and I won't discuss the KJV vs other versions any further. I just wanted you to know that v 1 ties into 2 which ties into 3 which ties into 4 and they are all one thought, so the message is not lost.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

"There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. 3 For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. 6 For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. 7 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot. 8 Those who are in the flesh cannot please God."

It is all one complete thought. The word "for" ties the verses together. So, the "no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus" carries over and continues throughout the complete thought. There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus because the law of the Spirit of life set us free from the law of sin and death, because God has done what the law could not do, thus, by sending his Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Basically the thought is this. The law could not save us because it was weakened by the flesh. We could never be perfect. We could not keep the law perfectly. The people in the OT were not saved by keeping the law, because they could not keep it perfectly. They were saved the same way we are, by faith in Jesus Christ. Theirs was a looking forward to the promise and ours is looking back to the promise being fulfilled in Christ.

But the Lord did make it clear that a life of disobedience = unbelief, and in Hebrews 3-4, we are told that we are to consider what happened to the Israelites in the wilderness who did not enter into God's eternal rest because of disobedience; because of unbelief, so that we don't do what they did and thus we not enter into God's rest.

Ok, so for those in Christ Jesus, we are not under condemnation because of what Jesus did for us on that cross in putting our sin to death and delivering us from our slavery to sin. But it doesn't end there. He didn't die just so we would no longer be under condemnation and so we could be forgiven our sins and go to heaven when we die. He did this "in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit."

Okay, so what is this saying? Verse four refers back to verse 1. Jesus, in his death, satisfied the righteous requirement of the law for us who are in Christ Jesus so that we would no longer be under condemnation. But, who are we who are in Christ Jesus and who are no longer under condemnation? We are those who walk (in lifestyle, in conduct, in practice) NOT according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.

And, this message is taught all throughout the NT, that we must walk according to the Spirit and not according to the flesh if we want to have eternal life with God and if we want to not be under condemnation. For, if we walk according to the flesh (in darkness), we are going to die in our sins, not have eternal life with God. For, our salvation is not a one-time experience. It is a walk of faith that must continue till the day we die.

So, if we read this as one complete thought, the message has not been lost. We can't quote verse 1 out of context and build a doctrine around it, just like we can't quote Eph 2:8-9 or Rom 10:9-10 independent of their context and build a doctrine of salvation around those verses. The consistent message throughout the NT is that our faith and our salvation are present tense or they are not there. And, our salvation is not just forgiveness of sins but it is deliverance from slavery to sin and empowerment to live righteously. If we are depending on some words we said in a prayer once, we are in for a big surprise on judgment day.

Anyway, I don't believe the message is lost in the NIV84, the ESV or the NASB. The message is still clear that the only way we are not under condemnation is if we walk according to the Spirit and not according to the flesh; if we sow to the Spirit and not to the flesh; if we practice righteousness and not wickedness. This is all over the NT.

But, that is all I am going to say on this subject and I won't discuss the KJV vs other versions any further. I just wanted you to know that v 1 ties into 2 which ties into 3 which ties into 4 and they are all one thought, so the message is not lost.

Dear Sue:

I use Modern Translations all the time (to help update the 1600's English), but I do not make them my final Word of authority because they do not all say the same thing. I also use older dictionaries to help understand what certain words in the KJB says. The problem with Modern Translations is that they place the devil's name in them, as well. Modern Translations water down holy living, the incarnation, the Trinity, the blood atonement. Most do not want to see this truth.

Anyways, in regards to your reply to my mention on how Modern Translations corrupt Romans 8:1:

Well, I am not buying the whole complete thought explanation on Romans. Romans 8:1 in the KJB is a unique truth that is one link in a chain that ties Paul's whole message to the Romans together. Romans 8:1 is altered in Modern Translations to fit those who want to justify sin. Romans 8:1 says “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.” (KJB). Sue, I do not get any impression that the whole chapter says this unique truth. The “condemnation” is mentioned in John 3:19-21, and Jude 1:4 in a big way. Jude 1:4 says, “For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.” (KJB).

1 John 5:7 is also another unique truth in the KJB that is removed from Modern Translations.

“For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.” (1 John 5:7) (KJB).

It is the only place in the BIble that point blank tells us about the Trinity. Yet, this precious truth is removed from most Modern Translations. I have made my case already in the thread link provided. I am sorry to hear my case was not convincing. All I can do is point you to the truth and you can research it for yourself.

I am going to strive to move on soon from this discussion.

May God's good ways be upon you.

I made :..

 

[Bible Highlighter]

To all:

It's not only important to recognize that we must live holy after God's grace, but we have to play ball according to what His Word actually says. I reminded again of 1 Kings 13:11-26 of the man of God who did not listen to God's Word and he followed the message of a false prophet. Do we have His correct Word? Are we truly following His Word? Or are we trying to justify our own path and way? Do we have the pure Word of God? I pray that we will all find that Word and follow it.

Blessings to you all in the Lord.
May His love and mercy be upon you all.

With loving kindness to you in Christ Jesus.

Sincerely,

~ BH.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Yes, I like the old version of Romans 8:1 too and far too many preachers turn that comma into a period and never finish the statement ( I know some in fact).

I am not sure you understand what Romans 8:1 says.
It is saying that if a believer is not walking after the Spirit and they are walking after the flesh (i.e. sin), then they are under the “Condemnation” mentioned in John 3:19-21, and Jude 1:4.

But I quoted what Sue uses to be on the same page with her.. However again, these people out in Romans 8:9-10 weren't doing that. It's clear to me that born again believers don't live by the flesh.

This is nonsensical to give warnings to the believer if condemnation was never a problem for them.

In Romans 11:20-22, we learn that we can be cut off just like the Jews if we do not continue in God’s goodness.

I know when I received the Spirit, conviction against the fleshly acts kicked in. The Spirit will lead you away from sin. But when we sin ( because it does happen) we confess and He is just and right to forgive us 1 John 1:9. I call that leading by the flesh, which we just saw should be dead ! Non the less we live life in these bodies and our righteousness is in Christ not us who come to Him. 1 John 2:1 New King James Version
My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

John told us to “sin not” in 1 John 2:1, he did not say, “strive not to sin, even though you will always sin in this life.” John actually mean the words, “sin not.” Jesus said to “sin no more” to two people (John 5:14) (John 8:11).

One day we will have glorified bodies and sin will no longer be an issue. We don't need to be hemmed up over this stuff, lest we become like the pharisees. Your sin was dealt with at the cross, claim the victory with Him ! Meanwhile, I doubt the individual in church who had a short burst of emotionalism, raised his or her hand to receive Christ then rolled on out of there to their old lives living like hell itself, ever received the Spirit. They weren't transformed. Those who continue ( constantly) in the flesh weren't saved. I know from my own life though that you can be changed very quickly still having some things that need sorting out. This is why sanctification is an ongoing process. But we are saved by grace through faith ( Ephesians 2:8-9 ), you will never get to heaven having received Christ by works. You don't get Him by works. He made that perfectly evident when with us on earth in story after story. Salvation is salvation unto good works. It's not that there are no works, they just don't save you, the 613 laws never did anything but show or reveal sin. Jesus came to wrap that up and He says He did it in His two commands, to love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind and soul. He said the second is like it, to love your neighbor as yourself. With these two commands he said all the law is fulfilled in Matthew 22:40 and reiterated in Galatians 5:14. IE it's a finished work, He did it at the cross where there was blood and when He rose again from the grave you can be sure the devil said oh cr*p.. Done deal, the veil was torn, everyone has access . It Is Finished. Do we live in sin, no. Is there sin, yes. This is the very conflict Paul writes so much about. But alas we have an advocate, not a scape goat. It's not an annual repeated sacrifice, it's one time forever. In that there is one salvation, your sins were washed by the blood. We are free of the bonds of sin in Him, that bond was broken by the blood of Christ and when we accept Him there is a change, you should be set free not captured. We just read of that in those first verses of Romans 8.

The problem is that you believe that all sin was paid for by Jesus by your having a belief alone in Jesus. We are told to work out our salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12). We know that Jesus is the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him (Hebrews 5:9). How can we obey if we say that we can never obey? It is a contradiction. We cannot admit that we will always disobey and yet we can obey, too. One is either for obedience or not. We can strive to obey God and honestly stumble, but to set out with a mindset that says we must always sin is not what the Bible teaches. Paul says, “...let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.” (2 Corinthians 7:1). This does not sound like your belief lines up with this verse (among many of the verses in the Bible). 1 John 2:4 says, “He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.” How can one say they can keep His commandments if they admit they will break them again at some point in the future? It makes no sense. I doubt John was referring to sometimes keeping God's commandments in 1 John 2:4.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The gospel is under siege.

The true gospel of grace that teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world is under attack.

“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;” (Titus 2:11-12).

For men say today that we cannot live righteously and godly in this present world as a part of God's saving grace. They will say you will always commit some kind of sin (i.e. mortal sin). Paul tells us to cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit perfecting holiness in the fear of God (2 Corinthians 7:1). Many in the Belief Alone camp will say that you sin the body and yet you do not sin the spirit because Jesus paid for all your sins (including future sin). Yet, Paul says that we are to cleanse ourselves from all filthiness in the flesh AND SPIRIT perfecting holiness in the fear of God. Why fear God if there is nothing that can jeopardize our salvation after receiving the Lord?