The Gospel Plus Nothing

RobertPate · Sep 21, 2022

If it is the Gospel plus something, like works and obedience, then it is not the Gospel.

God requires two things for the salvation of fallen man.

1. A life of perfect obedience according to God's Holy Law.

2. A perfect atonement for the sins of all of humanity.

Jesus in our name and on our behalf, has victoriously met both of these Requirements. This is why Paul said to the Colossians, "You are complete in him" Colossians 2:10.

Proof that Jesus has defeated sin, death and the devil is that Jesus now sits in heaven as, "The King of Kings and the Lord of Lords" Revelation 19:16.

All that is required of us is that we believe in Jesus, John 3:15, Plus nothing. If you add something to this Gospel, it is a perversion of the Gospel and is under the judgment of God, Galatians 1:6-10.

2PhiloVoid · Sep 21, 2022

Robert Pate said:
If it is the Gospel plus something, like works and obedience, then it is not the Gospel.

God requires two things for the salvation of fallen man.

1. A life of perfect obedience according to God's Holy Law.

2. A perfect atonement for the sins of all of humanity.

Jesus in our name and on our behalf, has victoriously met both of these Requirements. This is why Paul said to the Colossians, "You are complete in him" Colossians 2:10.

Proof that Jesus has defeated sin, death and the devil is that Jesus now sits in heaven as, "The King of Kings and the Lord of Lords" Revelation 19:16.

All that is required of us is that we believe in Jesus, John 3:15, Plus nothing. If you add something to this Gospel, it is a perversion of the Gospel and is under the judgment of God, Galatians 1:6-10.

Well, at least we all know that we're not saved by mere belief in the person of Jesus ... we do have to strive in faith as best we can to "live lives" worthy of Him. The rest of the New Testament ---beyond those few favorite verses that some folks like to quote repeatedly ad nauseum--- teaches us to 'be faithful,' and not just to merely believe.

Otherwise, we might do something silly like being racists and/or klanning on other people, all the while thinking "we're saved 'cuz we're special (maybe white too) and we believe in Jesus the right way !!"

RobertPate · Sep 21, 2022

2PhiloVoid said:
Well, at least we all know that we're not saved by mere belief in the person of Jesus ... we do have to strive in faith as best we can to "live lives" worthy of Him. The rest of the New Testament ---beyond those few favorite verses that some folks like to quote repeatedly ad nauseum--- teaches us to 'be faithful,' and not just to merely believe.

Otherwise, we might do something silly like being racists and/or klanning on other people, all the while thinking "we're saved 'cuz we're special (maybe white too) and we believe in Jesus the right way !!"

You believe that you can live a life worthy of him? Paul said that he counted all things as dung that he might win Christ, Philippians 3:8.

Clare73 · Sep 21, 2022

Robert Pate said:
If it is the Gospel plus something, like works and obedience, then it is not the Gospel.
God requires two things for the salvation of fallen man.
1. A life of perfect obedience according to God's Holy Law.
2. A perfect atonement for the sins of all of humanity.
Jesus in our name and on our behalf, has victoriously met both of these Requirements. This is why Paul said to the Colossians, "You are complete in him" Colossians 2:10.
Proof that Jesus has defeated sin, death and the devil is that Jesus now sits in heaven as, "The King of Kings and the Lord of Lords" Revelation 19:16.

All that is required of us is that we believe in Jesus, John 3:15, Plus nothing. If you add something to this Gospel, it is a perversion of the Gospel and is under the judgment of God, Galatians 1:6-10.

Some feel (Paul disagrees, so do I) that others should not be corrected (even though they correct others), so going with Paul here, let's cut to the chase and get down to the Scriptures (if you know them) which make this easy and clear.

There are two parts to the Christian life: entrance and maintenance.

Works of obedience do not count toward its entrance; i.e., salvation, justification (Ephesians 2:8-9;
Romans 3:28),
but they are necessary for its maintenance: "Without holiness, no one will see the Lord."
(Hebrews 12:14)

2PhiloVoid · Sep 21, 2022

Robert Pate said:
You believe that you can live a life worthy of him? Paul said that he counted all things as dung that he might win Christ, Philippians 3:8.

No, I didn't say that "I can succeed on my own" in achieving righteousness before God, Robert. Why would you read into what I said previously in this way?

And if you're going to reference Paul's letter to the Philippians, then we can both read the entirety of what he said to the Phillippian church and see that the "all things" he was referring to pertained only to, and specfically to, his former pharisaical adherence to the Law of Moses. When he spoke of rubbish, he wasn't also including our daily decision to make a concerted effort in faith in Christ to live as far apart from sin as we possibly can and to love others.

RobertPate · Sep 21, 2022

Clare73 said:
Some feel (Paul disagrees, so do I) that others should not be corrected (even though they correct others), so going with Paul here, let's cut to the chase and get down to the Scriptures (if you know them) which make this easy and clear.

There are two parts to the Christian life: entrance and maintenance.

Works of obedience do not count toward its entrance; i.e., salvation, justification (Ephesians 2:8-9;
Romans 3:28),
but they are necessary for its maintenance: "Without holiness, no one will see the Lord."
(Hebrews 12:14)

The Lord equips the believer with the Holy Spirit. "For we are his workmanship, created in Jesus Christ unto good works, which God has ordained that we should walk in them" Ephesians 2:10. So that you don't have to try and be good enough to be saved.

RobertPate · Sep 21, 2022

2PhiloVoid said:
No, I didn't say that "I can succeed on my own" in achieving righteousness before God, Robert. Why would you read into what I said previously in this way?

And if you're going to reference Paul's letter to the Philippians, then we can both read the entirety of what he said to the Phillippian church and see that the "all things" he was referring to pertained only to, and specfically to, his former pharisaical adherence to the Law of Moses. When he spoke of rubbish, he wasn't also including our daily decision to make a concerted effort in faith in Christ to live as far apart from sin as we possibly can and to love others.

Christians do not have a righteousness that God will accept. We are accepted only in Christ and because of Christ. Christ is the Christians righteousness.

Soyeong · Sep 21, 2022

Robert Pate said:
If it is the Gospel plus something, like works and obedience, then it is not the Gospel.

God requires two things for the salvation of fallen man.

1. A life of perfect obedience according to God's Holy Law.

2. A perfect atonement for the sins of all of humanity.

Jesus in our name and on our behalf, has victoriously met both of these Requirements. This is why Paul said to the Colossians, "You are complete in him" Colossians 2:10.

Proof that Jesus has defeated sin, death and the devil is that Jesus now sits in heaven as, "The King of Kings and the Lord of Lords" Revelation 19:16.

All that is required of us is that we believe in Jesus, John 3:15, Plus nothing. If you add something to this Gospel, it is a perversion of the Gospel and is under the judgment of God, Galatians 1:6-10.

Nowhere does the Bible say that God requires perfect obedience to His law for salvation, but rather God's law itself came with instructions for what to do when His people sinned. Further even if someone did have perfect obedience to God's law, then they still would not earn their salvation as a wage (Romans 4:4-5), so that has always been a fundamental misunderstanding of the goal of the law. In 1 John 2:6, those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked, but you want to be complete in Christ instead of walking in the same way he walked, so you are rejecting the way to be complete in Christ and the way to believe in him. In Matthew 4:17-23, Christ began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, yet the Gospel you are promoting rejects the Gospel of Christ. God's law is His instructions for how to believe in Him, but you want to believe in Him instead of following those instructions. Galatians 1:6-10 should not be interpreted as rejecting the Gospel of Christ, but rather the Gospel of Christ is Paul's Gospel, which you are rejecting.

Clare73 · Sep 21, 2022

Clare73 said:
Some feel (Paul disagrees, so do I) that others should not be corrected (even though they themselves correct others), but I'm going with Paul here, so let's cut to the chase and
get directly to the Scriptures (which it seems you do not know)
which make things easier, more simple and more clear.

There are two parts to the Christian life: entrance and maintenance.
Works of obedience do not count toward its entrance; i.e., salvation, justification (Ephesians 2:8-9; Romans 3:28),
but they are necessary for its maintenance: "Without holiness, no one will see the Lord."
(Hebrews 12:14)

Robert Pate said:
The Lord equips the believer with the Holy Spirit. "For we are his workmanship, created in Jesus Christ unto good works, which God has ordained that we should walk in them" Ephesians 2:10. So that you don't have to try and be good enough to be saved.

Well, that explains a lot. . .
How did you not notice the two stages of the Christian life and the different Scriptural methods employed therein?
You did not respond to those Scriptures.
Knowledge of Scripture is required to understand NT doctrine.

And what do you think it means in Ephesians 2:10 "to walk in good works?"

Soyeong · Sep 21, 2022

Robert Pate said:
You believe that you can live a life worthy of him? Paul said that he counted all things as dung that he might win Christ, Philippians 3:8.

In Matthew 7:23, Christ said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so that should cause you to reconsider promoting being workers of lawlessness. Furthermore, Matthew 7:23 means that knowing Christ is the goal of the law, completely undermines interpreting Philippians 3:8 as saying that we just need to know Christ and are free to be workers of lawlessness. Rather, what Paul referred to as dung was obeying the law without being focused on knowing Christ and thus missing the whole goal of the law.

Robert Pate said:
The Lord equips the believer with the Holy Spirit. "For we are his workmanship, created in Jesus Christ unto good works, which God has ordained that we should walk in them" Ephesians 2:10. So that you don't have to try and be good enough to be saved.

God's law is His instructions for equipping us to do every good work, so it is contradictory to think that our we are created in Jesus Christ to do good works while speaking against obeying God's law. Obedience to God's law has never been about trying to be good enough to be saved.

Robert Pate said:
Christians do not have a righteousness that God will accept. We are accepted only in Christ and because of Christ. Christ is the Christians righteousness.

It it pointless for God to give instructions while also refusing to accept our obedience to His instructions as if what He wants is our disobedience. Christ expressed his righteousness by living in obedience to God's law, so that is also the way that we live when he is our righteousness.

RobertPate · Sep 21, 2022

Soyeong said:
Nowhere does the Bible say that God requires perfect obedience to His law for salvation, but rather God's law itself came with instructions for what to do when His people sinned. Further even if someone did have perfect obedience to God's law, then they still would not earn their salvation as a wage (Romans 4:4-5), so that has always been a fundamental misunderstanding of the goal of the law. In 1 John 2:6, those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked, but you want to be complete in Christ instead of walking in the same way he walked, so you are rejecting the way to be complete in Christ and the way to believe in him. In Matthew 4:17-23, Christ began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, yet the Gospel you are promoting rejects the Gospel of Christ. God's law is His instructions for how to believe in Him, but you want to believe in Him instead of following those instructions. Galatians 1:6-10 should not be interpreted as rejecting the Gospel of Christ, but rather the Gospel of Christ is Paul's Gospel, which you are rejecting.

The law demands perfection, Jesus said, "Be perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect" Matthew 5:48. Anything less than perfect is sin.

"For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that does not continue in all things that are written in the book of the law to do them" Galatians 3:10.

How are you doing with that. There are hundreds of laws and commandments that are written in the book of the law. Do tell us that you are doing them, and I will show you a hypocrite.

RobertPate · Sep 21, 2022

Soyeong said:
In Matthew 7:23, Christ said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so that should cause you to reconsider promoting being workers of lawlessness. Furthermore, Matthew 7:23 means that knowing Christ is the goal of the law, completely undermines interpreting Philippians 3:8 as saying that we just need to know Christ and are free to be workers of lawlessness. Rather, what Paul referred to as dung was obeying the law without being focused on knowing Christ and thus missing the whole goal of the law.

God's law is His instructions for equipping us to do every good work, so it is contradictory to think that our we are created in Jesus Christ to do good works while speaking against obeying God's law. Obedience to God's law has never been about trying to be good enough to be saved.

It it pointless for God to give instructions while also refusing to accept our obedience to His instructions as if what He wants is our disobedience. Christ expressed his righteousness by living in obedience to God's law, so that is also the way that we live when he is our righteousness.

You have the same doctrine as the Pharisees. It is all about you and your obedience. All of the Pharisees went to hell because they thought that their obedience was going to save them.

Under the New Covenant Paul said that the law had been abolished, Ephesians 2:15. Jesus nailed it to his cross, Colossians 2:14. Christians are not led by laws, rules and religion, they are motivated by their Love for Christ and his Gospel.

Ligurian · Sep 21, 2022

Robert Pate said:
If it is the Gospel plus something, like works and obedience, then it is not the Gospel

...to the gentiles, which all of Asia had turned away from in 2 Timothy 1:15.

RobertPate · Sep 21, 2022

Other Sheep said:
...to the gentiles, which all of Asia had turned away from in 2 Timothy 1:15.

The age of apostacy was just beginning.

Ligurian · Sep 21, 2022

Robert Pate said:
The law demands perfection, Jesus said, "Be perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect" Matthew 5:48. Anything less than perfect is sin.

Some people quote from the Gospel of the Kingdom who don't even read the whole chapter of Matthew 5. Didn't you skip the part where if your brother has something against you, go make peace with him, and then give your gift at the altar? If a brother has something against you, that thing is sin. Go read the two verses just after the Lord's Prayer in Matthew 6... they say forgive if you want to be forgiven by the Father.
Those verses are repentance and forgiveness... which is the foundation of the Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven.

Soyeong · Sep 21, 2022

Robert Pate said:
The law demands perfection, Jesus said, "Be perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect" Matthew 5:48. Anything less than perfect is sin.

The word means to be full or complete. In Matthew 5:43-48, Jesus spoke about having a love that was full or complete, where we do not just love those who love us, but also love our enemies. Nothing in this passage has anything to do with saying that we need to have sinless obedience to in order to earn our salvation.

"For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that does not continue in all things that are written in the book of the law to do them" Galatians 3:10.

How are you doing with that. There are hundreds of laws and commandments that are written in the book of the law. Do tell us that you are doing them, and I will show you a hypocrite.

Click to expand...

If you believe that cursed is everyone who does not continue to do all things that are written in the Book of the Law, then you should speak in favor of continuing to do all things that are written in the Book of the law rather than speaking against it as if you if you want yourself and those who listen to you to be cursed. Again, the Book of the Law came with instructions for how to repent when the people sinned, so doing that is part of continuing to do everything that is in the Book of the Law. Repentance doesn't change the fact that we have already fallen short of perfect obedience, so the fact that repentance has value demonstrates that we don't need to have perfect obedience.

Psalm 27 · Sep 21, 2022

It's a difficult one this. Wesley believed that we should not wait passively for sanctification, but should strive to enter in. It is only by His divine, and transforming power, that we can. He does it/did it. All glory to The Lord!

Ligurian · Sep 21, 2022

Robert Pate said:
The age of apostacy was just beginning.

Apostate from Paul, but turned towards the Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven which was preached prior to Paul coming back from Arabia.

Clare73 · Sep 21, 2022

Psalm 27 said:
It's a difficult one this. Wesley believed that we should not wait passively for sanctification, but should strive to enter in. It is only by His divine, and transforming power, that we can. He does it/did it. All glory to The Lord!

That puts Wesley in agreement with Paul in Romans 6:16-19.

Ligurian · Sep 21, 2022

Psalm 27 said:
It's a difficult one this. Wesley believed that we should not wait passively for sanctification

The Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven says the word of God is sanctification for the 12 Disciples.

John 17:17 Sanctify them through Thy truth: Thy word is truth.

John 15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

John 17:6-8 I have manifested Thy name unto the men which Thou gavest Me out of the world: Thine they were and Thou gavest them Me and they have kept Thy word.[7] Now they have known that all things whatsoever Thou hast given Me are of Thee.[8] For I have given unto them the words which Thou gavest Me, and they have received them and have known surely that I came out from Thee, and they have believed that Thou didst send Me.

Which goes back to Deuteronomy 18:18-19, where a prophet like unto Moses (who was given the Law), would come in the Father's name and speak the words the Father put in His mouth to them. Which is confirmed in John 12:44-50, with the same words, which say this is the Father's Commandment given to the Son.

The Gospel Plus Nothing

Well-Known Member

Feel'n the Burn of Philosophy!

Well-Known Member

Blood-bought

Feel'n the Burn of Philosophy!

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Blood-bought

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Cro-Magnon

Well-Known Member

Cro-Magnon

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Cro-Magnon

Blood-bought

Cro-Magnon

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency