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The Good Samaritan

Discussion in 'Struggles by Non-Christians' started by John Helpher, Jan 19, 2021.

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  1. John Helpher

    John Helpher John 3:16 Supporter

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    I recently watched this video. It's about 7 minutes. It deals with an issue that I've felt inspired by for some time because it just feels right. The idea is that the good Samaritan didn't have the correct theology or religion. He was considered a heretic by those who did have the correct religion (i.e. the Jews).

    And yet, in this story, the Samaritan is the good guy simply because he showed love to his neighbor. No special religious rituals, or sacraments, or prayers were needed. Just love for neighbor. The title could be changed to something like the Good Muslim, or the Good Hindu, or the Good Prostitute, or perhaps even the Good Atheist and the lesson would remain the same; what God is really looking for is a willingness to love our neighbor and in so doing, we will come to recognize a love for him. That's why I've posted the video in this section. I think it has a lot of potential for common ground since every human can understand the benefits of love for one another.

    What do others think?

     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2021
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  2. pescador

    pescador Newbie Supporter

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    Don't forget that in Luke 10:13-32 -- A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side -- both a (temple) priest and a Levite ignored the man when they descended from Jerusalem. So their religion did them no good; they did not love their neighbor.
     
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  3. Halbhh

    Halbhh Everything You say is Life to me Supporter

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    I think God helps those who are truly humble (in their hearts).

    (this isn't just an idea or reasonable theory tho, rather, I'm the one learning --)

    Psalm 138:6; Proverbs 3:34; Proverbs 29:23; Matthew 23:12; Luke 1:52; James 4:6; 1 Peter 5:5
    “God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble.”
     
  4. JackRT

    JackRT Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Many Jews had a strong tendency to be very exclusive particularly where Gentiles and/or Samaritans were concerned. I am not sure why a distinction is made between the temple priest and the Levite because in fact only Levites could be priests so they were actually both Levites. It is interesting that at the end of the story the Samaritan is justified but is still a Samaritan. It is also worthwhile to point out that Pharisees were not priests and rarely, if ever, Levites.
     
  5. John Helpher

    John Helpher John 3:16 Supporter

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    Perhaps Jesus wanted to make it all the more clear that religious association makes no difference to God (i.e. he is no respecter of persons). I think this would address your comment that the Pharisees were not priests. It really doesn't matter what title we have, whether priest, Pharisee, Hindu, prostitute, Atheist or whatever; the lesson remains the same. God looks at the heart.
     
  6. xaris

    xaris Active Member

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    Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
    (Joh 14:6)

    His perfect obedience is sufficient for me and no amount of social justice will bring me to honor other gods.
     
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  7. John Helpher

    John Helpher John 3:16 Supporter

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    Huh?
     
  8. St_Worm2

    St_Worm2 Simul Justus et Peccator Supporter

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    Hello John, I believe that one of the important points of the parable is the fact it was the two Jews (the priest and the Levite) who did not have the "correct religion", though they certainly should have because they both (no doubt) knew the Law of God far better than the Samaritan did (Samaritans were Jews who had intermarried with non-Jews and who failed to keep the entirety of the Law and the Jewish Traditions, though apparently, this Samaritan understood what the Lord actually meant in Leviticus 19:18 far better than they did :preach:).

    Jesus used the parable to instruct the Jewish lawyer, who had just posed the question to Him, "who is my neighbor" in Luke 10:29, because he (the Jewish lawyer) seemed to be of the same mind as the priest and the Levite in the parable. So, the lawyer (like the priest and the Levite in the story) "knew" the Law, but he didn't really obey it, because he failed to put what it told him to do into practice!
    It's my hope that I am simply misunderstanding what you are saying somehow (in this last section of your OP), because several of the points that you make I would classify as being very unusual for a Christian.

    First off, while it seems clear that the Samaritan chose to obey the Law in this case .. e.g. Leviticus 19:18, and the priest and Levite did not, are you saying that the reason for this is due to the fact that the Jews practice, "special religious rituals, partake in the sacraments, and pray" and the Samaritan does not :scratch: If so, why do you believe that this is true? IOW, what is it about the religious rituals, the sacraments, and/or praying that stopped the two Jews in the story from choosing to properly obey the Law :scratch:

    Secondly, where does the parable connect "doing good" (apart from knowing God, and apart, therefore, from His will and from His word) with a non-Christian finally being able to finally "recognize their love for Him" :scratch: Quite frankly, it sounds like you are saying that Muslims, Hindus, prostitutes and Atheists ~never~ do good for anyone else (which we all know is not the case), the proof of which being the fact that they do not "recognize their love for God"!

    Finally, if all that God was looking for from us is "neighbor love" to be saved, then why the Incarnation, and why the Cross :scratch:

    If what you say is actually true, then neither the life that the Lord Jesus lived among us, and for us, nor His horrible death in our stead on the Cross (to atone for our sins and to satisfy the wrath that His Father has against us) would have been necessary for our salvation .. cf Romans 5:8-10.

    As I said earlier, surely, as a Christian, you didn't mean some of the things you said to be taken in the way that I just did, but that's how I read them, just FYI.

    --David
    p.s. - for reference sake and for the sake of discussion, here's the parable of the Good Samaritan, and the section of Luke 10 that leads up to it.

    Luke 10
    25 A lawyer stood up and put Him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?”
    26 And He said to him, “What is written in the Law? How does it read to you?”
    27 And he answered, “YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND; AND YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.”
    28 And He said to him, “You have answered correctly; DO THIS AND YOU WILL LIVE.”
    29 But wishing to justify himself, he said to Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?

    The Good Samaritan

    30 Jesus replied and said, “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among robbers, and they stripped him and beat him, and went away leaving him half dead.
    31 “And by chance a priest was going down on that road, and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.
    32 “Likewise a Levite also, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side.
    33 “But a Samaritan, who was on a journey, came upon him; and when he saw him, he felt compassion,
    34 and came to him and bandaged up his wounds, pouring oil and wine on them; and he put him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn and took care of him.
    35 “On the next day he took out two denarii and gave them to the innkeeper and said, ‘Take care of him; and whatever more you spend, when I return I will repay you.’
    36 “Which of these three do you think proved to be a neighbor to the man who fell into the robbers’ hands?”
    37 And he said, “The one who showed mercy toward him.” Then Jesus said to him, “Go and do the same.”
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2021
  9. John Helpher

    John Helpher John 3:16 Supporter

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    No, they did have the correct religion. They were the children of God. I mean, Jesus came to change the emphasis of what it meant to be a child of God, but it wasn't until he died on the cross that the new Covenant was set in concrete by God himself; he miraculously tore the thick, heavy curtain in the temple where the Jews believed that God lived.

    That was an important part of the lesson; having correct religious theology does not make one right with God.

    It takes effort to love your neighbor. Sometimes it takes sacrifice, whether that be time, skills, resources or even your own life. That's just part of what makes love what it is. Sometimes, we don't want the hard work, effort and sacrifice required to love. Sometimes, we want a shortcut. Sometimes, we want the cheaper option. That's what people do with religious jargon, rituals, and sacraments. They poor some water on their head and convince themselves that they are clean. They say a ritual prayer and believe they're saved. They attend ritual services at a prescribed location and feel good about their spirituality as a result. They make long, pleasant speeches about how wonderful the Lord is and convince themselves that God is pleased with such displays.

    None of these things require the kind of effort the Good Samaritan showed. That's what the pharisees had done. It's why Jesus said, "why do you call me, 'Lord', but do not obey me" and "this people honor me with their lips, but their heart is far from me".

    God is the source of love. No one can love without some kind of connection with him. Anyone who shows love is interacting with God's spirit, even if that person does not consciously recognize it as such. They don't need to make a ritual recitation of special prayers in order for God to see that the person is sincere despite whatever else may be wrong or mistaken in their perspective. Yes, God does want every human to consciously recognize him and give his the credit he deserves, but he also prefers ignorant sincerity to self-righteous boasting.

    A lot of professing Christians like to make much ado about how wonderful the Lord is, but they don't love their neighbor. Jesus said that kind of lukewarmness makes God sick.

    I don't understand this part. I'm saying the can replace the main character with just about anyone and the lesson will be the same; God wants us to demonstrate our love through our actions and he will appreciate anyone who does so.

    Would you mind elaborating on what you mean by this?

    Maybe I'm not getting you right, but it sounds like you're suggesting that our attempts to show love to our neighbor somehow contradicts Jesus' death on the cross? I don't understand that at all. The command is to love God and our neighbor. That is our responsibility. That is the standard and Jesus made it clear that he expects obedience. We will get it wrong at times; for most of us we'll get it wrong many times. That's what grace is for; we get another chance even when we fail. Grace isn't there as an excuse to do nothing.
     
  10. St_Worm2

    St_Worm2 Simul Justus et Peccator Supporter

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    Having a "correct religious theology" does not make one "wrong" with God either ;) (in fact, I do not believe that it's possible to be "right" with Him apart from having such knowledge)

    However, failing to have "correct religion" (which in the case of the priest and the Levite, meant failing to put the theology that they knew so well into practice) does :preach: Knowing, ~properly~ understanding, and then practicing what you preach/practicing what your religious theology from God's word tells you is the good and right thing to do, is what the parable of The Good Samaritan is all about.

    To be clear, Samaritans were considered second-rate Jews, but Jews they were, nevertheless (granted, they married those who were not Jews), and as Jews, they would have certainly been well-acquainted with Jewish laws that are as basic to Judaism as Deuteronomy 6:4-5 and Leviticus 19:18 are, so the "Good Samaritan", who had a "correct religious theology" in this case (just like the priest and the Levite did), also had "correct religion" (which the priest and the Levite did not), because the Samaritan chose to put his (correct) understanding of God's law into practice.

    Finally, while Jesus came to change certain things, He never changed the OT teaching from Leviticus 19:18 about loving your neighbor as yourself, rather He corrected the Jews (incorrect) "Tradition" concerning it (which did not recognize non-Jews as "neighbors"). Then He expanded our understanding even further, and He emphasized our need to put that command (that "correct religious theology") into practice (not only commanding us to love our neighbors as ourselves (Leviticus 19:18), but to love our enemies as well .. Matthew 5:44-48).

    I'll be back to finish up the rest of my reply (Dv).

    --David
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2021
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  11. John Helpher

    John Helpher John 3:16 Supporter

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    Okay, but that's contrary to the lesson of the parable. You don't need right theology to be right with God. Perhaps that is somewhat of a misnomer; it would be more clear to say that love for your neighbor is correct theology. Anyone saying that you must perform some ritual is likely taking you away from correct theology.
     
  12. St_Worm2

    St_Worm2 Simul Justus et Peccator Supporter

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    Again John, this parable has nothing to do with religion, other than the fact that "true" religion is far more than head knowledge (especially incorrect head knowledge like the priest and the Levite had), because a person demonstrates that his/her religion is true when they ~practice~ what they know and preach :preach:

    There is nothing at all wrong, in fact, there is everything right with possessing correct religious knowledge, and/or with religious practices such as the Lord's Supper, baptism, praying, etc., as these things are NOT the problem, rather, they are intended to help us regularly make "correct religion" possible (and they are part of the practice of "correct religion" too).
    I agree with the first half of your sentence, but not with the second. First and foremost, God wants people to know Him and love Him, and He wants to know us too (intimately/as His children), because anyone who does not have that kind of intimate knowledge of Him does not know Him, and such a person cannot choose to do His will (to be clear, He wants people to have this knowledge of Him principally for ~our~ sakes, not for His).
    I'll try ;) I said, "if all that God is looking for from us is "neighbor love" to be saved, then why the Incarnation, and why the Cross".

    God sent His Son here to do for us what we could not do for ourselves. He lead a perfectly righteous life before His Father as a man on our behalf (IOW, He led the righteous life that we needed to lead, on our behalf), and He died in our place on the Cross to atone for/pay the price for our sins (as a perfectly innocent man), because the cost for us would have been far too high for us to pay, eternity in Hell.

    So, if all God is looking for is our choosing to be neighborly, what purpose was there in His Son coming here as a man, and then dying that gruesome death on the Cross. If the Incarnation and, especially the Cross, were not ABSOULTELY necessary for our salvation, that would mean that God is a monster, not a loving Father, yes? You continue:
    If that's what you think that I'm suggesting, then you are definitely not understanding what I mean ;)

    What I'm responding to of yours is this: "the Samaritan is the good guy simply because he showed love to his neighbor. No special religious rituals, or sacraments, or prayers were needed. Just love for neighbor. The title could be changed to something like the Good Muslim, or the Good Hindu, or the Good Prostitute, or perhaps even the Good Atheist and the lesson would remain the same; what God is really looking for is a willingness to love our neighbor and in so doing, we will come to recognize a love for him."

    While it's true that, neighbor love, is a big part of what God is looking for .. where His "saints" are concerned .. that's hardly His priority where "unbelievers" are concerned. Rather, His ~only~ concern for them is their choosing to come to saving faith in His Son.. cf John 6:29, because prior to that relationship with Him being established, NOTHING else is possible for them (including "doing good" in God's eyes, because 1. they've failed to do the only thing that God has asked them to do, the only thing that matters at that point, and 2. someone who does not know God in a saving way cannot know what His will for them .. or for anyone else .. truly is).

    --David
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2021
  13. John Helpher

    John Helpher John 3:16 Supporter

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    It's weird that you use this kind of phrasing. "Being neighborly" isn't the same as loving your neighbor, at least, not in the context that Jesus described it in the parable of the Samaritan. Being neighborly is a colloquialism which essentially means that you simply be polite to your neighbors. You say good morning if you see them on your way to work. You let them borrow a cup of sugar if they come asking. You say you're fine when they ask how you are and you turn a blind eye if they steal a pen from work; that kind of thing.

    It's almost like you're trying to minimize what it means to love your neighbor. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you. I have a penchant for expressing myself in a grumpy way, so I don't want to come across as just dumping on you. I don't know if you watched the video but in the exchange between Jesus the and lawyer who instigated this parable, the lawyer asked what he must do to be saved. Jesus rejoined by asking him what the law says. The lawyer correctly responded that he should love God and his neighbor. Jesus replied, "Yeah, that's right. Do that".

    The lawyer's pride was hurt by such a simple answer. He seemed to expect some kind of argument. Instead, the simplicity of Jesus' answer made his challenge look foolish, so he tried to justify himself by retorting, "who is my neighbor"!

    In response, Jesus told the parable. You seem to be doing something similar with this "be neighborly" thing; it's like you feel offended.

    I think this comment confirms my previous suspicion. You feel offended that God may be pleased with a Hindu who loves his neighbor. In your mind, him being different from what you think is religiously acceptable should automatically disqualify him. If he doesn't say the right things, if he doesn't perform the correct rituals, if he doesn't read the correct holy writings, if he doesn't attend service at the correct religious building, then all his neighbor-loving is a waste.

    That is exactly opposite to the lesson of the Samaritan parable.
     
  14. St_Worm2

    St_Worm2 Simul Justus et Peccator Supporter

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    Hello again John, because I'm disagreeing with some of what your saying doesn't mean that I'm offended, I simply believe that you are wrong in those areas, that's all (I'm not offended, just to be clear :)) Nor do I feel like you are "dumping on me" (and I appreciate the fact that you are not :ebil:).

    It's not as easy to discern what people are really trying to say in online discussions, because we don't have facial and vocal inflections to help us (or body language, which is helpful as well). So let's take the time to make sure that we are understanding each other, particularly when something that one of us says seems odd ;)

    Getting back to your post now, I believe that you are correct about the lawyer's pride being hurt, as he certainly realized that he 'should' have known the answer to his own question w/o asking Jesus!

    That said, let's take another look at the exchange that the lawyer had with the Lord. The lawyer asked Jesus what he needed to do to inherit eternal life, and the Lord answered Him with a question (because He knew that as a lawyer in 1st Century Israel, he was an expert in the Law of God and should have known the answer to the question before he asked it).

    The thing is, take a close look at his (Scriptural) answer to Jesus' probing question. Do you believe that the lawyer was capable of doing what the Bible (and the Lord) told him that he needed to do to inherit eternal life? (see the text in bold below) Is anyone, except for Jesus, capable of doing so? Do you believe that you could? In fact, have you ever done so even once in your entire life? I know that I haven't been able to!!

    Of course, even if someone was able to do so "once", "once" will not do the trick, even if such a feat was possible. Rather, you would need to do so in the same way Jesus did, perfectly/without fail, from birth to death, because if you didn't, you would need Him to be your Savior instead of your guide.

    IOW, works righteousness only "works"/makes someone "righteous" if that someone actually "keeps" the entire Law .. perfectly .. e.g. James 2:10-11.

    Of course, since the text tells us that the lawyer immediately sought to "justify himself" (concerning the loving of his neighbor that he wasn't doing), we know that he knew that he hadn't loved his neighbor as he should have. And realizing that he failed the easy test, that of loving his neighbor as himself, he didn't even bother trying to justify himself about his lack of love for God.

    Luke 10
    25 A lawyer stood up and put Him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?”
    26 And He said to him, “What is written in the Law? How does it read to you?”
    27 And he answered, “YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND; AND YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.”
    28 And He said to him, “You have answered correctly; DO THIS AND YOU WILL LIVE.
    29 But wishing to justify himself, he said to Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”
    Finally, the NT tells us this (see below) about salvation (not to be cruel, but because of concern that people need to know truth about salvation). The last passage below is from the Apostle Peter, the first two verses are from the Lord Himself.

    John 3
    18 He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

    John 14
    6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me.

    Acts of the Apostles 4
    12 There is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved.”
    --David

    James 2
    10 Whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point, he has become guilty of all of it.
    11 For He who said, “DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY,” also said, “DO NOT COMMIT MURDER.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.

     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2021
  15. John Helpher

    John Helpher John 3:16 Supporter

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    Sometimes, maybe. But, in this case, I think it is easy. What really are you upset with? God appreciates anyone who shows love to his neighbor. That may include a Hindu, Muslim, prostitute, drug addict, or Atheist.

    Why does that bother you so much? You should make it as clear as possible.
     
  16. St_Worm2

    St_Worm2 Simul Justus et Peccator Supporter

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    Hi John, if I gave you the impression that I am somehow "upset" about the thought of God appreciating a non-Christian who loves his neighbor, then I apologize, because I certainly didn't mean to imply that!

    I'm not upset, but I am concerned, because NO ONE is saved by their choice to "do good" (whether it's a Christian who is perfectly and lovingly performing the express will of God as a good deed for His glory, or simply an Atheist who is "doing good" on his own/in the human sense), our good works do not save us/do not get us to Heaven (Jesus' works, done on our behalf, do).

    The Father sent His Son here to save the wicked who know that they need Him as their Savior, not the righteous who think that they do not :preach:

    As the Lord Jesus tells us,

    Mark 2
    17 “It is not those who are healthy who need a physician, but those who are sick; I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”

    And as the Apostle Paul also pointed out,

    Romans 4
    5 To the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness.

    So, we are saved by grace through faith, APART from anything that 'we' do (be it good or bad) .. e.g. Ephesians 2:8-9.

    --David

    Titus 3
    5 He saved us, ~not~ on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy.


     
  17. John Helpher

    John Helpher John 3:16 Supporter

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    Concerned. Upset. In this case it's just semantics.

    That's not consistent with the lesson from the parable. God is looking for people who love their neighbor. Love is an action. Why are you so resistant to that?
     
  18. St_Worm2

    St_Worm2 Simul Justus et Peccator Supporter

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    Actually, it's not the same thing at all.
    Well, we're posting on a board that's intended for non-Christians (who are struggling to understand part or all of the Christian faith properly) to ask questions and to get answers about it. I'm "resistant" when a Christian (such as yourself) is telling them that all God is interested in having them do is to "be good", because that could not be farther from the truth (His truth).

    Quite frankly, if we were capable of "being/doing good" ourselves in His eyes, we wouldn't need a Savior, would we ;)

    I'm sorry, but I've got to call it a night. If you'd like to continue, I'll be back after work tomorrow (Dv).

    God bless you!

    --David

    Romans 5
    8 God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
    9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.
    10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
     
  19. Grumman Tomcat

    Grumman Tomcat Living in the Misinformation Age Staff Member Administrator CF Staff Trainer Supporter

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  20. ewq1938

    ewq1938 It's ok to be wrong but it's not ok to stay wrong. Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    thread closed permanently RV's 3.jpg
     
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