The Good Lord made them all

[Xeno.of.athens]

In my neighbourhood there is an abundant population of birds and little critters as well as insects. All made by Gd, all proclaiming his goodness and glory. At least that is how I like to think of it, I prefer not to think too long and hard on the struggle to survive and the diseases that make survival difficult. So, the other day as I sat on a chair on my front porch watching the world and its animal inhabitants I noticed a bird watching me. A magpie, which may have been a spy, for all I know.

She, I suspect it is female, was quite intently watching me. And I wondered what she was thinking about as she watched.

Is there a theological issue here? Yes, in a way there is, what is the meaning of animal intelligence, emotion, and suffering in the world created by God?

 

[bling]

This world was made the best for humans to fulfill their earthly objective.

 

[Clare73]

In my neighbourhood there is an abundant population of birds and little critters as well as insects. All made by Gd, all proclaiming his goodness and glory. At least that is how I like to think of it, I prefer not to think too long and hard on the struggle to survive and the diseases that make survival difficult. So, the other day as I sat on a chair on my front porch watching the world and its animal inhabitants I noticed a bird watching me. A magpie, which may have been a spy, for all I know.
View attachment 328795
She, I suspect it is female, was quite intently watching me. And I wondered what she was thinking about as she watched.

Is there a theological issue here? Yes, in a way there is, what is the meaning of animal intelligence, emotion, and suffering in the world created by God?

The suffering is the result of the fall.

The creation of them is for their beauty, glory and wonder of the earth, showing forth the same of God.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

The suffering is the result of the fall.

The creation of them is for their beauty, glory and wonder of the earth, showing forth the same of God.

Why are the birds punished when they did not fall?

 

[Clare73]

Why are the birds punished when they did not fall?

The same reason I am punished, and I did not fall.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

The same reason I am punished, and I did not fall.

Have you never sinned?

 

[PuerAzaelis]

Whoever therefore is not illuminated by splendors as great as those to be found in created things is blind; whoever fails to heed outcries so great is deaf; whoever fails to praise God on account of all these his effects is mute; whoever does not turn from such great signs to their first principle is a fool. - Therefore, open your eyes, rouse the ears of your spirit, release you lips, and apply your heart, that you may see, hear, praise, love and worship, magnify and honor your God in all creatures, or else perhaps the whole world may rise up against you.

Saint Bonaventure, quoted in David Bentley Hart. The Doors of the Sea: Where Was God in the Tsunami? (Kindle Locations 462-466). Kindle Edition.

 

[Clare73]

Have you never sinned?

Relevance? (1Jn 1:8-10)

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Relevance? (1Jn 1:8-10)

You wrote " I did not fall." so I wondered if you wanted to claim sinlessness for yourself.

 

[Clare73]

You wrote " I did not fall." so I wondered if you wanted to claim sinlessness for yourself.

It's not about sinlessness (1Jn :8-10).

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

It's not about sinlessness (1Jn :8-10).

Please, say what it is allegedly about.

 

[PsaltiChrysostom]

If human beings treated one another's personal property the way they treat their environment, we would view that behavior as anti-social. We would impose the judicial measures necessary to restore wrongly appropriated personal possessions. It is therefore appropriate, for us to seek ethical, legal recourse where possible, in matters of ecological crimes.

It follows that, to commit a crime against the natural world, is a sin. For humans to cause species to become extinct and to destroy the biological diversity of God's creation... for humans to degrade the integrity of Earth by causing changes in its climate, by stripping the Earth of its natural forests, or destroying its wetlands... for humans to injure other humans with disease... for humans to contaminate the Earth's waters, its land, its air, and its life, with poisonous substances... these are sins.

In prayer, we ask for the forgiveness of sins committed both willingly and unwillingly. And it is certainly God's forgiveness, which we must ask, for causing harm to His Own Creation.

Thus we begin the process of healing our worldly environment which was blessed with Beauty and created by God. Then we may also begin to participate responsibly, as persons making informed choices in both the integrated whole of creation, and within our own souls.

ECUMENICAL PATRIARCH BARTHOLOMEW 1997

 

[Clare73]

Please, say what it is allegedly about.

It's about the consequences throughout creation of Adam's rebellion.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

It's about the consequences throughout creation of Adam's rebellion.

Birds are affected by Adam's fall? Is that your thesis?

 

[Clare73]

Birds are affected by Adam's fall? Is that your thesis?

Actually, it's not my thesis, it's the thesis of Ro 8:19-23.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Actually, it's not my thesis, it's the thesis of Ro 8:19-23.

And what, exactly do you say, is taught by Saint Paul in Romans 8:19-23?

 

[Clare73]

And what, exactly do you say, is taught by Saint Paul in Romans 8:19-23?

Exactly what it states.

Paul personifies creation as a woman in labor waiting for the birth of her child.
All of creation, both animate and inanimate, suffered the consequences of Adam's rebellion (Ge 3:17-19) and, apart from humans, waits for those who are now the sons of God to be manifested at the resurrection, creation not being destined for annihilation, but for renewal (2 Pe 3:13), where living things will no longer be subject to death and decay as they are now, and where the born again's possession of the Holy Spirit is evidence not only of their present salvation (vv. 14, 16), but also a pledge of and down payment on their future inheritance (2 Co 1:22, 5:5, Eph 1:14).
Christians are already sons of God, but the resurrection is the full realization of our inheritance in Christ, it being the final stage of our adoption, where the first stage was predestination of our adoption (Eph 1:5), and the second stage is our present inclusion in the children of God (v.14, Gal 3:26)

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Exactly what it states?

I see, then nothing relevant?

 

[Clare73]

I see, then nothing relevant?

You think it states nothing relevant?

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

You think it states nothing relevant?

Oh no, quite the contrary, saint Paul's writing is relevant to all manner of things. I think you've not explained anything and hence the posts you've written are not relevant.