THE FULFILLMENT OF DANIEL 9

David Kent said:

Of course you are correct for once. The whole prophecy is about the messiah not the antichrist. He was cut off in the midst of the prophetic week as well as the literal week,.

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Douggg said:

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You are making assumptions here. One that the 70th week is future - false. Two that the little horn is the prince who shall come - false. 3 that that prince will confirm the covenant- false. The 69th week expired when Jesus, Messiah the Prince came. He was the most Holy that was anointed. His ministry was for ½ week, when he was cut off after he confirmed the covenant with his blood shed for many at the last supper. The last ½ week ministry was continued to be offered to the Jews (many) by his disciples till the gospel was opened up to the gentiles at the conversion of Cornelius and his family. The prince who was to come is Titus whose people, the Roman soldiers destroyed the temple against his orders.

David Kent said:

You are making assumptions here. One that the 70th week is future - false.

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David, the 70th week is 7 years long.

The time of the end vision of the little horn person stopping the daily sacrifice and committing the transgress of desolation in Daniel 8:12-14 is 2300 days long. And cannot fit into only 1260 days.

The 7 year 70th week is also in Ezekiel 38-39, latter days, latter years. It is the 7 years following Gog/Magog.

Douggg said:

David, the 70th week is 7 years long.

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False. The 7 years is not a true interpretation. The final week of Daniel 9:27 has to do with Messiah the Prince, Christ, and His New Testament Congregation whom He has confirmed a covenant with His Blood (Heb 9). Not so-called antichrist and peace treaty with national Israel.

The 70th week is the whole New Testament period from the Cross to the Second Coming, with short season of apostasy and desolation of the NT congregation prior to the Consummation.

Douggg said:

The time of the end vision of the little horn person stopping the daily sacrifice and committing the transgress of desolation in Daniel 8:12-14 is 2300 days long. And cannot fit into only 1260 days.

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Incorrect. The Little Horn represents the power of Satan for a short season that can end the daily sacrifice necessary for salvation after the two Witnesses' testimony is finished. Nothing to do with physical temple or animal sacrifice.

Douggg said:

The 7 year 70th week is also in Ezekiel 38-39, latter days, latter years. It is the 7 years following Gog/Magog.

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Again, incorrect. The Battle of Gog and Magog "IS" the battle of Armageddon. Not 7 years prior to fit false premillennialism doctrine.

David Kent said:

As the 69th week had expired at his baptism, he must have been announcing that the 70th week was a jubilee. He was cut off in the midst of the week, a literal week as well as a prophetic week.. And confirmed the covenant with the Jews during that ½ week. he continued the ministry by the Holy Spirit for a further ½ week until the opening up of the gospel to Cornelius and then to the gentiles.

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Jesus is the 70th week. There is no period of time called the 70th week. No Scripture states Jesus was cut off after 3.5 years.

Daniel 9:27 is not the same week as the 70th week. Daniel 9:27 is the days of the sounding of the 7th Trumpet.

The verse just states that at some point after the 69th week, Jesus will be cut off. Jesus is Messiah the Prince. These verses are for Israel as a nation, not people in general. Jesus is also the Prince to come. The Prince to come part will finish the 70 weeks after the Second Coming of the Prince.

Since the 70 weeks started in the first year of Cyrus, more than 69 weeks or 483 years passed even before Jesus was born. Only two people even remembered the prophecy, Anna and Simeon. Every one else had to be given a wake up call to remember.

Jesus as Christ has been accomplished. Jesus as King is still future over the nation of Israel.

TribulationSigns said:

Again, incorrect. The Battle of Gog and Magog "IS" the battle of Armageddon. Not 7 years prior to fit false premillennialism doctrine.

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Incorrect. The gathering of Gog and Magog is a thousand years after Armageddon. Not even the same battle configuration.

Armageddon is Satan defending Jerusalem against Jesus coming to take the throne back. A thousand years later, Satan is loosed to decieve people to rebel against Jesus on the throne.

Armageddon is at the end of Satan's 42 months.

The Gog Magog event is at the end of Satan being bound for a thousand years.

Neither of these 2 events are Zechariah 14.

Daniel 9:27 is not about the 70th week, and is not a set of 7 years. Daniel 9:27 is a set of 7 days, and is the sounding of the 7th Trumpet. The AoD is the third woe.

"and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

This period is the 42 months given to Satan in Revelation 13. This is the third woe that is in the midst of the week of the 7th Trumpet sounding.

Not your explanation to make Amil work for you.

Timtofly said:

This period is the 42 months given to Satan in Revelation 13. This is the third woe that is in the midst of the week of the 7th Trumpet sounding.

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It is 42 years in Revelation, half of seven years. Daniel 9:27 the confirming of the Mt. Sinai covenant is for 7 years, as that is cycle that Moses required it be done in Deuteronomy 31:9-13.

Also the "week" of Daniel 9:27 has to be 7 years in order to fit the 2300 days of Daniel 8:12-14 into it.

Douggg said:

It is 42 years in Revelation, half of seven years. Daniel 9:27 the confirming of the Mt. Sinai covenant is for 7 years, as that is cycle that Moses required it be done in Deuteronomy 31:9-13.

Also the "week" of Daniel 9:27 has to be 7 years in order to fit the 2300 days of Daniel 8:12-14 into it.

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The NT is the only Covenant in Daniel 9.

Daniel 8:12-14 is not about the 7th Trumpet.

Daniel 8 was Hanukkah, the event that made it necessary for a cleansing of the Temple was Antiochus Epiphanes. Daniel 8 was the well known event that Jesus was alluding to in Matthew 24:15. Such an occurrence will happen when the Atonement Covenant is confirmed at the 7th Trumpet. Or those 42 months will not happen at all. Daniel 8 was already fulfilled. Matthew 24:15 is still future and not a set period of time, like what happened, that is commemorated by Hanukkah.

The week in Daniel 9:27 is a week of days, not years. Daniel 9 is the oasis of hope in the midst of earthly kingdoms doing violence and God's judgments. But that hope will not be full and truly describing earth until all of Adam's dead corruptible flesh is removed at the Second Coming.

While the Cross was the physical point in time for us to see God at work in redeeming mankind, the Second Coming will be the lifting of the spiritual veil that is preventing us from seeing the entire plan at work on the earth. There is no going back to confirm anything from Mount Sinai.

Paul said Sinai was:

"For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all."

The Law of Moses was under the bondage of sin. The NT is the Covenant that is confirmed in Daniel 9:27. Jesus confirms this Atonement agreement that was in place before creation itself. That is why the Lamb's book of life was unsealed. That is why the final harvest happens during the Trumpets and Thunders. This 7th Trumpet confirmation is to determine who is still named in the Lamb's book of life, and who will be removed. At the point of the 7th Trumpet those beheaded are still in the Lamb's book of life. But the confirmation is to see if there are any left who will be beheaded. If God in His foreknowledge confirms there are no souls left who will choose to be beheaded instead of taking the mark, then that is the end. There will be no 42 month extension of grace and mercy. So saying this 42 months or 1260 days has to happen, means you know there will be some who will be beheaded. Not because John said it would happen. You have to know the future not written. John saw the worse case scenario.

And even before the 7th Trumpet, John saw 7 Thunders, that he was not even allowed to write down in the book of Revelation.

So not even the church, nor those of Israel, will be on earth at that time, as that time does not even pertain to them. Nor were we told what to even prepare for. The best news we can give the lost is that God will kill them all and send them to the LOF. At least from the book of Revelation. The good news is in the Gospel.

TribulationSigns said:

False. The 7 years is not a true interpretation. The final week of Daniel 9:27 has to do with Messiah the Prince, Christ, and His New Testament Congregation whom He has confirmed a covenant with His Blood (Heb 9). Not so-called antichrist and peace treaty with national Israel.

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False, Daniel 9:27 shows the future literal human man identified by the 3 names in the (Little Horn/Man Of Sin/The Beast) who causes abomination and desolation, Jesus has no identification whatsoever as you claim

Timtofly said:

The NT is the only Covenant in Daniel 9.

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What covenant is it that the law of Moses found ?

Daniel 9:11 Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him.

Timtofly said:

And even before the 7th Trumpet, John saw 7 Thunders, that he was not even allowed to write down in the book of Revelation

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Strange teaching.

Does anyone have any idea what Revelation 10 is about?

David Kent said:

Strange teaching.

Does anyone have any idea what Revelation 10 is about?

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The seven thunders were thunder-like voices that sounded in heaven. John heard what they said but was told not to write what they said down.

imo, my guess is that the voices uttered the name of the beast king in whatever they said. It could be for other reason(s), that's just my guess. What do you, and others here, think ?

Revelation 10 overall, the mighty angel is saying in the days of the voice of the 7 angel (the 7th trumpet angel - the third woe announcing angel) - the mystery of God as He has declared to his servants the prophets should be finished.

So that leaves the reader with two questions:
1. What is the mystery of God ?
2. When are the days of the 7th angel ?

The 7th angels sounds in Revelation 11, right after the two witnesses leave this earth, after their 1260 days are over. Those same 1260 days are in Revelation 12:6 as well. So right after the 1260 days, what happens in Revelation 12:7-9,?

Satan and his angels are cast down to earth - his mystical kingdom of Mystery, Babylon the great is fallen is fallen in Revelation 18.

Satan will have but a little time left - the time/times/half time of Revelation 12:14.

So the mystery of God in Revelation 10:7 is how God is going to start dismantling Satan and his angels' kingdom - and bringing judgment on Satan to be a terror no more, and judgment on his cohorts the 1/3 of the rebellious angels and the demons.

Where-ever we read about them in heaven rejoicing, it also includes the good angels rejoicing as well - who a third of their kind rebelled with Satan in the early days of the creation of the earth. So there is power conflict between the angels themselves. Michael and his angels will war against Satan and his angels in Revelation 12:7-9.

Douggg said:

The seven thunders were thunder-like voices that sounded in heaven. John heard what they said but was told not to write what they said down.

imo, my guess is that the voices uttered the name of the beast king in whatever they said. It could be for other reason(s), that's just my guess. What do you, and others here, think ?

Revelation 10 overall, the mighty angel is saying in the days of the voice of the 7 angel (the 7th trumpet angel - the third woe announcing angel) - the mystery of God as He has declared to his servants the prophets should be finished.

So that leaves the reader with two questions:
1. What is the mystery of God ?
2. When are the days of the 7th angel ?

The 7th angels sounds in Revelation 11, right after the two witnesses leave this earth, after their 1260 days are over. Those same 1260 days are in Revelation 12:6 as well. So right after the 1260 days, what happens in Revelation 12:7-9,?

Satan and his angels are cast down to earth - his mystical kingdom of Mystery, Babylon the great is fallen is fallen in Revelation 18.

Satan will have but a little time left - the time/times/half time of Revelation 12:14.

So the mystery of God in Revelation 10:7 is how God is going to start dismantling Satan and his angels' kingdom - and bringing judgment on Satan to be a terror no more, and judgment on his cohorts the 1/3 of the rebellious angels and the demons.

Where-ever we read about them in heaven rejoicing, it also includes the good angels rejoicing as well - who a third of their kind rebelled with Satan in the early days of the creation of the earth. So there is power conflict between the angels themselves. Michael and his angels will war against Satan and his angels in Revelation 12:7-9.

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As you say it is a guess. Doesn't tell us what the vision means.

David Kent said:

As you say it is a guess. Doesn't tell us what the vision means.

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The seven thunders since it was not released what they uttered, don't reveal what the mystery of God is. But other information revealed the days in which the seven angel sounds - does.

Douggg said:

The seven thunders were thunder-like voices that sounded in heaven. John heard what they said but was told not to write what they said down.

imo, my guess is that the voices uttered the name of the beast king in whatever they said. It could be for other reason(s), that's just my guess. What do you, and others here, think ?

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Ok Doug I have some notes on the seven thunders, let me know what you think.





In Revelation 10:3-4 the mighty angel that came down from heaven cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices. And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.

The mighty angel is on earth when he cries out with the loud voice because in Revelation 10:1-2 he comes down from heaven and has one foot on the sea and the other on earth. After this angel cries, the seven thunders utter their voices. It would seem that the seven thunders are on earth or sea or perhaps both earth and sea when they utter their voices because another voice comes from heaven and tells John not to write it down. John appears to be with the mighty angel on the earth and sea which is why he states the voice came from heaven, meaning that voice came from a place where John was not, otherwise John would’ve just stated he heard a voice if he was in heaven. Based on this we could conclude that the voice of the seven thunders was uttered at the same location of the mighty angel and where John was because he didn’t declare they came from heaven or any other place.

What the seven thunders uttered is sealed. In Revelation 12:3 the dragon has seven heads and in Revelation 20:2-3 the dragon, serpent which is the devil and Satan has a seal put upon him.



Question, can the voice of the seven thunders be the voice of the seven heads on Satan or the beasts?

grafted branch said:

Question, can the voice of the seven thunders be the voice of the seven heads on Satan or the beasts?

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Well, you make some interesting points and an overall good analysis of the text.

We don't know the source of the seven thunders. But we can know that because in verse 3 it says voices plural - that the source is likely seven persons.

3 And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices.

I would rule out it being the voices of the seven heads - because those are a sequence of 7 kings, and 5 of them were dead at the time of John. And I don't think their voices could be mistaken or described as thunders. And I don't think the thunders are from any source of Satan.

In Revelation 8:2 there are seven angels (given trumpets) and in Revelation 15:1 and Revelation 16:1 it appears to be the same seven angels that will pour out the vials of God's wrath. Look at those three passages and see what you think?

So given the importance of those seven angels in both the trumpets and the vials - it could be that those same seven angels are the ones speaking that are the seven thunders voices.

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btw, since the mighty angel in verse 2 stands on both the earth and the seas - makes Revelation 12:12 the third woe as affecting the inhabiters of the earth and sea, make more sense.

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Douggg said:

And I don't think the thunders are from any source of Satan.

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Yea I would agree, the most likely source of the thunder is Godly and not Satanic as thunder and lightning is almost always associated with God.

But we do have Luke 10:18 I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven and 2 Corinthians 11:14 where Satan is transformed into an angel of light. So I guess an argument could be made that in certain instances Satan can be associated with thunder, even if indirectly.

Douggg said:

I don't think the thunders are from any source of Satan.

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I have a lot of notes on this and sometimes I forget why I even put them there, ha ha.

Ok, I have Amos 3:7 in my notes which says Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets. Since the seven thunders are sealed and have not been written down, if their voices are Godly then what they said will have to be revealed. If the voices are satanic then they will not have to be revealed.

What are your thoughts on when or how what the seven thunders said gets revealed?

grafted branch said:

I have a lot of notes on this and sometimes I forget why I even put them there, ha ha.

Ok, I have Amos 3:7 in my notes which says Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets. Since the seven thunders are sealed and have not been written down, if their voices are Godly then what they said will have to be revealed. If the voices are satanic then they will not have to be revealed.

What are your thoughts on when or how what the seven thunders said gets revealed?

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Maybe by the two witnesses (who prophesy in Revelation 11:3) in their final 75 days, after the Abomination of Desolation image is setup (Day 1185) and when the beast king is making war on them during that time..

Day 1............two witnesses.........Day 1185 AoD......(75 days)........... Day 1260, the two witnesses killed.

3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

They may reveal what the seven thunders said in declarations against the beast king...
1.......
2.....
3....
4.....
5.....
6.....
7....

Truth7t7 said:

False, Daniel 9:27 shows the future literal human man identified by the 3 names in the (Little Horn/Man Of Sin/The Beast) who causes abomination and desolation, Jesus has no identification whatsoever as you claim

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That is too bad. Have fun with your flawed doctrine