• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
  • We hope the site problems here are now solved, however, if you still have any issues, please start a ticket in Contact Us

The Four Gospels

Status
Not open for further replies.

@@Paul@@

The Key that Fits:Acts 28
Mar 24, 2004
3,050
72
55
Seattle
✟26,081.00
Faith
Baptist
AV1611 said:
Ahhh a common mistake...1 Galatians is referring to:

"The test of the Gospel is grace. If the message excludes grace, or mingles law with grace as the means of either of justification or sanctification Galatians 2:21; 3:1-3 or denies the fact or guilt of sin which alone gives grace its occasion and opportunity, it is "another" gospel, and the preacher of it is under the anathema of God Galatians 1:8,9." (Scofield 1917 notes)
Grace indeed...
Act 15:10-11 KJV
(10) Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
(11) But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we (Jews) shall be saved, even as they (Gentiles).

:)

Thanks for posting the notes from, "How to Enjoy the Bible" AV. :thumbsup:
 
Upvote 0

thereselittleflower

Well-Known Member
Nov 9, 2003
34,832
1,526
✟65,355.00
Faith
Catholic
@@Paul@@ said:
Great!!

Now, here's a good thread on that subject...
http://www.christianforums.com/t733391
...if you're interested. :wave:



Eph 5:31-32 KJV


(31) For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
(32) This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

If the "great mystery" is that the Church has replaced Israel as the bride... then it's not so "great" is it? Seeing how some 90% of christians accept the title of Bride.
That is a misapplication of the scripture . .

The Great Mystery is how a man and wife can become ONE flesh . . it is a contradiction . . they do not just come together to have sexual relations, they actually become one flesh . .

We don't understand what God has intended by this . . and it is a type of what God is doing in the Church . . this is why the Church is described in this passage as both the body and bride/wife of Christ . .

Eve was of Adam's literal body, and also his bride/wife . . They are one who became two to become one again . . This is a "type" of the Church and God's relationship with Her.

The Church is one and two as well . . Body and Bride of Christ .. both



Let's look at those two verses again:
Eph 5:31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.


Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.


What does that "BUT" really signify?




Let's look!
G1161


δέ

de

deh

A primary particle (adversative or continuative); but, and, etc.: - also, and, but, moreover, now [often unexpressed in English].



Let's look at a literal translation:


(YLT) this secret is great, and I speak in regard to Christ and to the assembly; (Church)



But alas, the great mystery pertains to the TWO being one flesh. Whoever the TWO are. :)
On the contrary . we do know who Paul is speaking of . . a natural man and wife . . .. and spirtually Christ and His Church! :)






Now, on the "Eternal Gospel" or "Everlasting Gospel"...
Rom 1:20-21 KJV


(20) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
(21) Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Rev 14:6-7 KJV
(6) And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
(7) Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

I feel it's called the everlasting gospel because it's been around from the creation of the world.
Well, thank you for sharing your opinion as to why it is called the "everlasting" Gospel . .. let's take a look at how that measures up to the facts:



Let's look at the Greek word translated "everlasting" here - it is the equivilant of "OLAM" in the Hebrew, which means for the age, or "age-during":
G166


αἰώνιος

aiōnios

ahee-o'-nee-os

From G165; perpetual (also used of past time, or past and future as well)



The Gospel started to be proclaimed in Genesis, when God told the serpent
Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.


Jesus is the lamb who was slain from the foundations of the world . .


This is the Good News . . and God started to proclaim it Himself in Gen 3:15 to our first parents and our enemy, the devil . . .


It is the Gospel that has been placed into the hands of the Church . . .


There is only ONE Gospel . . .

The Gospel was revealed little by little until Christ, in whom is the fulness of all the Good News proclaimed from the beginning of the world revealed the fulness of God's plan of redemtion for all men, Jew and Gentile together . .


There are not "4" gospels . . this is dispensationalist teaching which is not based on any SOLID evidence . . .


One can make a very elaborate drawing of what one believes . . but a picture does not make it true . . We are so easily moved into accepting something as authoritative, factual and truthful simply because of how it is presented.



How it is presented makes it no more true . .



The Mormons have charts similar to the one in the OP . ..





Peace to all!




 
Upvote 0

thereselittleflower

Well-Known Member
Nov 9, 2003
34,832
1,526
✟65,355.00
Faith
Catholic
I want to elaborate on the the correlation between Adam and Eve and Christ and the Church . .


Eve was given to Adam as his bride . . she became his wife . .

She came out of his side while he slept . . and when he took her to himself he said
Gen 2:23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

for she literally came out of him . . of his flesh and bone:


Now we turn to see Christ hanging on the cross . . He has died for our sin . .

Now a soldier pierces His side with a spear and out pours His blood - blood and water . .

From His side, while He "slept" in death while hanging on the Cross, came forth OUT OF HIS SIDE that from Him from which the Church would be born . . His blood and water, just as out from the side of Adam, while he slept, came forth that from which Eve would be made . . . His flesh and bone.


As Eve came from that which came from the side of Adam while he slept, so does The Church come from that which came from the side of Christ while he "slept" in death . .

As Eve was given, flesh of his flesh, bone of his bone, to Adam as his bride after being brought forth from his side, so is the Church given to Christ as His Bride. Christ presents His Church to Himself as His bride as Paul speaks of in Eph 5. after being brought forth from His side.
Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
Eph 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

Eph 5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

It is interesting that the "it" in these verses referring to the Church are the neuter pronoun . . and can mean "she, it, he" . . . It is also interesting that no translation translates it as "him" . . most as "it", but some do give this word a gender in our English . . and when they do, it is "HER"

Here is one Literal translation:
(ALT) The husbands, be loving your* own wives, just as also Christ loved the Assembly and gave Himself [or, handed Himself over] on her behalf,

Here is another translation:
(EMTV) Husbands, love your own wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her,

No translation says "and gave Himself for him"!

That is because it is understood that the context mandates that if any gender is asigned, that it must be the feminine gender . . .

To bring this further home, Paul goes on to say:
Eph 5:28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.

"SO" - what does this word above signify?

Let's look!
G3779

οὕτω

houtō

hoo'-to

Or, before a vowel, οὕτως houtōs hoo'-toce.

From G3778; in this way (referring to what precedes or follows): - after that, after (in) this manner, as, even (so), for all that, like (-wise), no more, on this fashion (-wise), so (in like manner), thus, what.



G3779

οὕτω

houtō

Thayer Definition:

1) in this manner, thus, so

Part of Speech: adverb

A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G3778


Paul is clearly telling husbands to love their wives as Christ loves the Church linking the idea of marriage between a husband and wife to the relationship of Christ with the Church . one in which the Church is His Bride.


That Paul goes on to speak of the Church being the body of Christ as well only serves to cemment and bring home the idea that just as Eve came from Adams body and is flesh of his flesh and bone of his bones, so the Church comes from Christ's Body .. and IS His Body as well as, like Eve, His BRIDE!


It is so simply understood when one takes the plain reading of the text and does not try to force an understanding demanded by a belief system that is not based on anything solid . .

To sawdust and others, I hope you will look at this passage simply keeping mind the above. :)


Peace to all!


 
Upvote 0

@@Paul@@

The Key that Fits:Acts 28
Mar 24, 2004
3,050
72
55
Seattle
✟26,081.00
Faith
Baptist
Well, it must have been buried somewhere or back on another page...

Rev 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel (G2098) to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,​
Here an angel was flying in heaven and he had the everlasting gospel to preach to people on the earth...

G2098
εὐαγγέλιον
euaggelion
yoo-ang-ghel'-ee-on
From the same as G2097; a good message, that is, the gospel: - gospel.​
...and the everlasting gospel has something to do with good news, a good message... simple enough.
Rev 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.​
Is it safe to assume the everlasting gospel contains the phrase "Fear God, and give glory to him...and worship him that made heaven..."?

1) Is that what we are called to do? and 2) sense when does a "gospel" ONLY pertain to salvation?

I have a new gospel for you: "You're getting a raise!!"
 
Upvote 0

thereselittleflower

Well-Known Member
Nov 9, 2003
34,832
1,526
✟65,355.00
Faith
Catholic
@@Paul@@ said:
Well, it must have been buried somewhere or back on another page...
Actually, it a few posts up from yours. I said this . perhaps it was not so easy to make the conncection between "gospel" and "good news"

tlf: Jesus is the lamb who was slain from the foundations of the world . .


This is the Good News . . and God started to proclaim it Himself in Gen 3:15 to our first parents and our enemy, the devil . . .



It is the Gospel that has been placed into the hands of the Church . . .


There is only ONE Gospel . . .

The Gospel was revealed little by little until Christ, in whom is the fulness of all the Good News proclaimed from the beginning of the world revealed the fulness of God's plan of redemtion for all men, Jew and Gentile together . .
I hope that was helpful . .

Rev 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel (G2098) to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
Here an angel was flying in heaven and he had the everlasting gospel to preach to people on the earth...



G2098

εὐαγγέλιον
euaggelion
yoo-ang-ghel'-ee-on
From the same as G2097; a good message, that is, the gospel: - gospel.
...and the everlasting gospel has something to do with good news, a good message... simple enough.
Yes that is what I was saying above. . the Gospel is the Good News. :)

Rev 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.​
Is it safe to assume the everlasting gospel contains the phrase "Fear God, and give glory to him...and worship him that made heaven..."?
Is that not what the Gospel of Christ bids us also to do even now?

1) Is that what we are called to do?
Isn't it Paul?

and 2) sense when does a "gospel" ONLY pertain to salvation?

I have a new gospel for you: "You're getting a raise!!"
Since when does "angel" only apply to what we commonly think of as angelic beings? ;)


Angel is from the Greek word "aggelos" "angelos" which simply means messenger . .

Gospel simply means good news. . . that is why we say The Gospel of Christ.


Paul . . I don't see anything in your post that at all deals with the issue of 4 gosels versus ONE Gospel . .

When the New Testament refers to "the Gospel", it is always referring to the one and same Gospel of Jesus Christ.

The New Testament NEVER refers to "A" Gospel unless it is referring to a FALSE Gospel!!


There is only ONE Gospel


And that is the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.



Peace to all!
 
Upvote 0

@@Paul@@

The Key that Fits:Acts 28
Mar 24, 2004
3,050
72
55
Seattle
✟26,081.00
Faith
Baptist
thereselittleflower said:
Actually, it a few posts up from yours. I said this . perhaps it was not so easy to make the conncection between "gospel" and "good news"

tlf: Jesus is the lamb who was slain from the foundations of the world . .


This is the Good News . . and God started to proclaim it Himself in Gen 3:15 to our first parents and our enemy, the devil . . .



It is the Gospel that has been placed into the hands of the Church . . .


There is only ONE Gospel . . .

The Gospel was revealed little by little until Christ, in whom is the fulness of all the Good News proclaimed from the beginning of the world revealed the fulness of God's plan of redemtion for all men, Jew and Gentile together . .
I hope that was helpful . .


Yes that is what I was saying above. . the Gospel is the Good News. :)

Is that not what the Gospel of Christ bids us also to do even now?


Isn't it Paul?


Since when does "angel" only apply to what we commonly think of as angelic beings? ;)


Angel is from the Greek word "aggelos" "angelos" which simply means messenger . .

Gospel simply means good news. . . that is why we say The Gospel of Christ.


Paul . . I don't see anything in your post that at all deals with the issue of 4 gosels versus ONE Gospel . .

When the New Testament refers to "the Gospel", it is always referring to the one and same Gospel of Jesus Christ.

The New Testament NEVER refers to "A" Gospel unless it is referring to a FALSE Gospel!!


There is only ONE Gospel


And that is the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.



Peace to all!
Thanks for sharing... I do not agree...

Abraham believed God and it was counted as righteousness...
Gal 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.​
Did He believe the Gospel?? NO.

That's at least two "good news".
 
Upvote 0

Terral

Senior Member
Sep 5, 2004
1,635
49
Visit site
✟36,357.00
Faith
Christian
Hi AV:
AV >> Hopefully this will show you are not 100% correct and not 100% wrong:

That is a very good cut from Larkin’s book which shows a period of transition. The problem with the drawing is that he says ‘ages’ instead of ‘dispensations.’ The ‘dispensation of God’s grace’ (Eph. 3:2) began with the conversion of Paul in Acts 9. We should remember that Christ’s work on the cross is the ‘provision’ through which sins could then be forgiven through obedience to the Gospel (Rom. 16:25-27). Since Christ revealed the ‘gospel I preach among the Gentiles' (Gal. 2:2) down the road a piece (Gal. 1:11+12), then we cannot start the dispensation at Calvary or Pentecost. To do so infers that folks could become members of this dispensation apart from the Gospel.


In Christ,

Terral

 
Upvote 0

Iosias

Senior Contributor
Jul 18, 2004
8,171
227
✟9,648.00
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Private
Terral said:
Hi AV:

That is a very good cut from Larkin’s book which shows a period of transition. The problem with the drawing is that he says ‘ages’ instead of ‘dispensations.’ The ‘dispensation of God’s grace’ (Eph. 3:2) began with the conversion of Paul in Acts 9. We should remember that Christ’s work on the cross is the ‘provision’ through which sins could then be forgiven through obedience to the Gospel (Rom. 16:25-27). Since Christ revealed the ‘gospel I preach among the Gentiles' (Gal. 2:2) down the road a piece (Gal. 1:11+12), then we cannot start the dispensation at Calvary or Pentecost. To do so infers that folks could become members of this dispensation apart from the Gospel.


In Christ,

Terral

But surely the new revelation could tell us when the dispensation begins? And then if the new revelation points to t beginning at Pentecost then surely that is where it must begin.

May I pose the question to you: When did the church begin?
 
Upvote 0

Terral

Senior Member
Sep 5, 2004
1,635
49
Visit site
✟36,357.00
Faith
Christian
AV:
AV >> But surely the new revelation could tell us when the dispensation begins? And then if the new revelation points to a beginning at Pentecost then surely that is where it must begin. May I pose the question to you: When did the church begin?

Your post lacks context to anything posted above or any reference to Scripture. When John the Baptist appeared to Israel, there were only Jews under Mosaic Law and Gentiles without the Law. God began to gather members of the ‘bride’ (John 3:29) as a new ‘dispensation’ through the offering of the ‘gospel of the kingdom.’ Matt. 4:23, 9:35, etc. This is the same ‘church’ (Matt. 18:17) that Christ would give over to Peter (Matt. 16:16-19) upon His ascension into heaven. This is the same ‘church’ that Peter continued to build in Acts 2 that is mentioned in acts 5:11. Acts speaks of that Kingdom church under Peter here:
“So the church throughout all Judea and Galilee and Samaria enjoyed peace, being built up; and going on in the fear of the Lord and in the comfort of the Holy Spirit, it continued to increase.” Acts 9:31.

“The news about them reached the ears of the church at Jerusalem, and they sent Barnabas off to Antioch.” Acts 11:22.


Paul, Barnabas and Titus met with this Kingdom church in Jerusalem in Acts 15.
“When they arrived at Jerusalem, they were received by the church and the apostles and the elders, and they reported all that God had done with them. But some of the sect of the Pharisees who had believed stood up, saying, "It is necessary to circumcise them and to direct them to observe the Law of Moses.” Acts 15:4+5.

“Then it seemed good to the apostles and the elders, with the whole church, to choose men from among them to send to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas--Judas called Barsabbas, and Silas, leading men among the brethren.” Acts 15:22.


Note carefully that there is a sect of Pharisees attached to this ‘church in Jerusalem’ who are causing problems for the Gentile churches under the stewardship of the Apostle Paul. You should come to realize that Peter, John and James are pillars (Gal. 2:9) of the Kingdom church and therefore keeping every aspect of Mosaic Law, according to Christ’s commands in Matt. 5:18. There are thousands of believers here who are ‘zealous for the Law’ (Acts 21:20), according to James’ commands in James 2:10. Paul and Barnabas sat on the opposite side of the table from the pillars of this Kingdom church to submit the ‘gospel I preach among the Gentiles.’ Gal. 2:2. This meeting marks the spot where the Kingdom church came to realize that all of these Grace churches under the stewardship of the Apostle Paul were under a totally new dispensation. This is why James hands down the decree:
"Therefore it is my judgment that we do not trouble those who are turning to God from among the Gentiles . . .” Acts 15:19.

Paul confirms this in his Epistle to the Galatians:
“But on the contrary, seeing that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been to the circumcised (for He who effectually worked for Peter in his apostleship to the circumcised effectually worked for me also to the Gentiles), and recognizing the grace that had been given to me, James and Cephas and John, who were reputed to be pillars, gave to me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, so that we go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.” Gal. 2:7-9.

Peter, John and James would continue to head the Kingdom church in Jerusalem as the ‘sons of the bridal chamber’ (Mark 2:19) in hope that Israel would repent and return (Acts 3:19-21). This Kingdom dispensation became dormant with the destruction of Jerusalem, as the Kingdom then had no hub in the prophetic Promised Land for the kingdom disciples to be gathered. All of those who had been saved through obedience to the ‘gospel of the kingdom’ were then ‘cut off’ (Rev. 20:4). Those are the souls from the ‘early rain’ (James 5:7) who shall rule with Christ on thrones judging Israel for the thousand years. Elijah shall return to restore all things (Matt. 17:10+11) and gather members to the ‘bride’ during the coming restored Kingdom of Israel on the earth, and the ‘late rains’ of James 5:7. He will be preparing the prophetic bride for the return of the Lord (Matt. 24:30) and their gathering in Matt. 24:31.
AV >> May I pose the question to you: When did the church begin?

Your question is phrased in such a way, as to make allowances for only one new dispensation in our New Testament. How many times did Acts tell the story of the conversion of the Apostle Paul? Once, twice or three times? Acts 9, 22, 26? Christ came in water AND in blood. 1John 5:6. Nothing written above has application to the ‘body of Christ’ (Eph. 4:12) and the mystery ‘church’ (Eph. 5:32), according to the ‘dispensation of God’s grace’ (Eph. 3:2) given to the Apostle Paul for us today. Our “Christ’s body” (1Cor. 12:27) church began with the conversion of the Apostle Paul, and the steward to which this ‘dispensation of God’s grace’ (Eph. 3:2) was given. Peter’s ‘kingdom of priests’ and ‘holy nation’ (Exodus 19:6, 1Pet. 2:9) ‘church’ (Matt. 16:16-19) was most definitely seen by the OT Prophets. Isa. 40:3, Mal. 3:1, Joel 2:28-32, etc.. Hosea was given to see that the Lord God would betroth Israel to Himself (Hosea 2:19+20) and that the ‘Bridegroom’ would have His ‘bride’ (John 3:29). None of the OT Prophets were given to see the Apostle Paul, our gospel, our church or that Christ would be the ‘Head’ of a ‘body.’ Eph. 5:30. This is why the ‘mystery is great’ (Eph. 5:32) regarding our ‘body of Christ’ (Eph. 4:12) church (Col. 1:24) in the world today.

Acts 2 is all about the continuation of the Kingdom church from Matt. 16:16-19, as the Holy Spirit then began to fulfill Prophecy by offering the Kingdom to Israel. Peter is preaching the same repentance and baptism ‘for the forgiveness of sins’ (Acts 2:38) as John the Baptist (Acts 1:5) preached from the very beginning. Mark 1:4. The second ‘new dispensation’ came into being through the conversion of the Apostle Paul (Acts 9), and members were then added according to the ‘gospel’ (1Cor. 15:1-4) he received through a ‘revelation of Jesus Christ.’ Gal. 1:11+12. The Gospel of the Kingdom (Matt. 24:14), which Paul refers to as ‘preaching the kingdom’ (Acts 20:25) sees a steady decrease throughout the Book of Acts, until the Apostle Paul finally turns to the Gentiles exclusively in Acts 28:28. Again, our mystery church of today is according to the ‘dispensation of God’s grace’ given to the Apostle Paul for us that could not come into being until his conversion. Paul’s ‘my gospel’ (Rom. 16:25) has Christ’s precious blood for our redemption (Eph. 1:7) while Peter’s has water (Acts 2:38). Paul is revealing the ‘mystery of the gospel’ (Eph. 6:19) while Peter is fulfilling Prophecy. This explains why Paul uses the term ‘mystery’ twenty times while Hebrews, James, Peter and John never use it even once. We see Paul addressing Gentiles directly (Rom. 11:13, Eph. 3:1+2), while again Hebrews, James, Peter and John ever address the Gentiles in the first person one time. Paul is writing the “Lord’s Commandment” (1Cor. 14:37+38) to the ‘body of Christ’ in the world today, while the others are writing to the Kingdom church of the coming restored Kingdom of God on earth. Rightly dividing the word of truth is dividing the water part from the blood part of NT Scripture.

In Christ,

Terral
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.