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The four good archangels.

Hoshiyya

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Hoshiyya, very good points that you made and very intriguing. Something that I have never even considered to be a possibility. But when one really looks into this it would make perfect sense and probably answers a lot of questions.

At the time of Moses and through out history wasn't Egypt the most powerful country and influenced many?

Moses when he was taken in by Pharoah's daughter would he not have been brought up to partake of the witchcraft and magic? Surely he would have been taught this being so close to the Pharoah of his time. And I am sure that he saw the many mysterious things going on.

Moriah Ruth

Shalom Moriah Ruth,

" At the time of Moses and through out history wasn't Egypt the most powerful country and influenced many?"

It certainly was. It pretty much held the position that Rome would later have, and which position the US holds now.

" Moses when he was taken in by Pharoah's daughter would he not have been brought up to partake of the witchcraft and magic? Surely he would have been taught this being so close to the Pharoah of his time. And I am sure that he saw the many mysterious things going on. "

Great observation. And this probably explains why the Egyptian sorcerors (two of them are identified as Jannes and Jambres in 2 Ti. 3:8) would consider Moses a rival magician, drawing upon the same forces that they had mastered.
 
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Moriah Ruth 777

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Hi Hoshiyya,

You stated, "Great observation. And this probably explains why the Egyptian sorcerors (two of them are identified as Jannes and Jambres in 2 Ti. 3:8) would consider Moses a rival magician, drawing upon the same forces that they had mastered."

Wow, I never would have thought that the verse 2 Timothy 3:18 would refer to Moses and Jannes and Jambres in the context as you had shared. However your thought could be correct, for which I would not have clued in. Thank you for this input.

Moriah Ruth
 
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visionary

Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I.
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According to rabbinical tradition they were the two chiefs of the magicians at the court of Pharaoh who foretold the birth of Moses, "the destroyer of the land of Egypt," thereby causing the cruel edicts of Pharaoh (Soṭah 11a; Sanh. 106a). JANNES AND JAMBRES - JewishEncyclopedia.com
 
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rick357

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Hi Hoshiyya,

You stated, "Great observation. And this probably explains why the Egyptian sorcerors (two of them are identified as Jannes and Jambres in 2 Ti. 3:8) would consider Moses a rival magician, drawing upon the same forces that they had mastered."

Wow, I never would have thought that the verse 2 Timothy 3:18 would refer to Moses and Jannes and Jambres in the context as you had shared. However your thought could be correct, for which I would not have clued in. Thank you for this input.

Moriah Ruth

Great perspective on false teachers...believing their carnal understanding and use of scripture comes from same source as the truth the Spirit leads us to in scripture
This is good stuff....I knew they were magicians who with stood Moses but didnt know they considered Moses a magician.
 
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xTx

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Why ....what has happened to Uriel and Raphael...I know the ten tribes are dispersed but what of these angles....seems something is missing or my perception is amiss...

Hope this helps -

Remembering Saint Raphael
One of my favourite books of the bible is the Book Of Tobias (Tobit).

Chapter 5 - Tobias meets the Archangel Saint Raphael

[5] Then Tobias going forth, found a beautiful young man, standing girded, and as it were ready to walk.

[6] And not knowing that he was an angel of God, he saluted him, and said: From whence art thou, good young man? [7] But he answered: Of the children of Israel. And Tobias said to him: Knowest thou the way that leadeth to the country of the Medes? [8] And he answered: I know it: and I have often walked through all the ways thereof, and I have abode with Gabelus our brother, who dwelleth at Rages a city of the Medes, which is situate in the mount of Ecbatana. [9] And Tobias said to him: Stay for me, I beseech thee, till I tell these same things to my father. [10] Then Tobias going in told all these things to his father. Upon which his father being in admiration, desired that he would come in unto him.

[11] So going in he saluted him, and said: Joy be to thee always. [12] And Tobias said: What manner of joy shall be to me, who sit in darkness, and see not the light of heaven? [13] And the young man said to him: Be of good courage, thy cure from God is at hand. [14] And Tobias said to him: Canst thou conduct my son to Gabelus at Rages, a city of the Medes? and when thou shalt return, I will pay thee thy hire. [15] And the angel said to him: I will conduct him thither, and bring him back to thee.

[16] And Tobias said to him: I pray thee, tell me, of what family, or what tribe art thou? [17] And Raphael the angel answered: Dost thou seek the family of him thou hirest, or the hired servant himself to go with thy son? [18] But lest I should make thee uneasy, I am Azarias the son of the great Ananias. [19] And Tobias answered: Thou art of a great family. But I pray thee be not angry that I desired to know thy family. [20] And the angel said to him: I will lead thy son safe, and bring him to thee again safe.

Notes: [18] Azarias: The angel took the form of Azarias: and therefore might call himself by the name of the man whom he personated. Azarias, in Hebrew, signifies the help of God, and Ananias the grace of God.

[21] And Tobias answering, said: May you have a good journey, and God be with you in your way, and his angel accompany you.

Source: Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible, Book Of Tobias (Tobit) Chapter 5

Chapter 6

2 The boy left with the angel, and the dog followed behind. The two walked on, and when the first evening came they camped beside the Tigris.

Source: Tobit - Chapter 6 - Bible - Catholic Online

Chapter 8

1 When they had finished eating and drinking and it seemed time to go to bed, the young man was taken from the dining room to the bedroom.

2 Tobias remembered Raphael's advice; he went to his bag, took the fish's heart and liver out of it and put some on the burning incense.

3 The reek of the fish distressed the demon, who fled through the air to Egypt. Raphael pursued him there, shackled him and strangled him forthwith.

Source: Bible - Catholic Online

Saint Raphael's feast day is celebrated on September 29th.


Prayer to St. Raphael, Angel of Happy Meetings

O Raphael, lead us towards those we are waiting for, those who are waiting for us! Raphael, Angel of Happy Meetings, lead us by the hand towards those we are looking for! May all our movements, all their movements, be guided by your Light and transfigured by your Joy.

Angel Guide of Tobias, lay the request we now address to you at the feet of Him on whose unveiled Face you are privileged to gaze. Lonely and tired, crushed by the separations and sorrows of earth, we feel the need of calling to you and of pleading for the protection of your wings, so that we may not be as strangers in the Province of Joy, all ignorant of the concerns of our country.

Remember the weak, you who are strong--you whose home lies beyond the region of thunder, in a land that is always peaceful, always serene, and bright with the resplendent glory of God. Amen.
 
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visionary

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Great perspective on false teachers...believing their carnal understanding and use of scripture comes from same source as the truth the Spirit leads us to in scripture
This is good stuff....I knew they were magicians who with stood Moses but didn't know they considered Moses a magician.
I think the magicians thought that Moses was using the same tricks as they were. They wouldn't believe that they were dealing with the real God and Moses was really only the messenger.
 
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Hoshiyya

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I think the magicians thought that Moses was using the same tricks as they were. They wouldn't believe that they were dealing with the real God and Moses was really only the messenger.

Yes. And moreover Simon Magus basically says the same thing to the Apostles, revealing he thought the spirit was all a natural force that sorcerors could tap into (Acts 8:18-19).
 
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