Let me ask this, how far does the so called well documented cultures date back to? And what if the flood did happen earlier on say for example more than 4500 years ago?
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the flood
- Thread starter Brotha Ballew
- Start date
****** News just in ******
Bible wrong on many accounts. Not a reliable history text. Not a science text.
I'm a Christian but I don't own a Bible. It's about as useful as the Cliff Notes version of War and Peace.
Bible wrong on many accounts. Not a reliable history text. Not a science text.
I'm a Christian but I don't own a Bible. It's about as useful as the Cliff Notes version of War and Peace.
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Dont know about the first one, Ill let others field it.
but I do know that If the flood happend later than say 4500 (already a slight stretch date to begin with) then the geneologies of the bible are wrong, they do not give us the correct dates, and are possibly unreliable for telling the age of the earth. It would also push the age of the earth back beyond 6000 years.
One thing to note, is that a creationist group (ICR) has already done this. They have accepted tree ring dating as accurate enough that they have pushed the flood back quite a few years, as one of the oldest living trees dates older the standard YEC flood date.
but I do know that If the flood happend later than say 4500 (already a slight stretch date to begin with) then the geneologies of the bible are wrong, they do not give us the correct dates, and are possibly unreliable for telling the age of the earth. It would also push the age of the earth back beyond 6000 years.
One thing to note, is that a creationist group (ICR) has already done this. They have accepted tree ring dating as accurate enough that they have pushed the flood back quite a few years, as one of the oldest living trees dates older the standard YEC flood date.
Alessandro said:
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So how old was the flood dated, well by them ICR at least? It is generally believed that the earth is between or around 6-10 thousand years old, so it would still fit I guess.
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Because of tree rings, they pushed the date of creation back at last 3000 years and they had to evoke the appearance of age theory (not really a theory and not a good idea for christians who believe in a truthfull god, but it was their call) to keep from needing to push it back further.
The danger to pushing the flood back, is that if you want to continue reading the bible literaly, it puts some strain on that, and there are certain events that happend after the flood that tie in with history, push the flood too far back and you start to have civilizations as being much older than they really were.
Now, here is a question, where do you get 10,000 years from?
The danger to pushing the flood back, is that if you want to continue reading the bible literaly, it puts some strain on that, and there are certain events that happend after the flood that tie in with history, push the flood too far back and you start to have civilizations as being much older than they really were.
Now, here is a question, where do you get 10,000 years from?
Alessandro said:
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It is the given estimate, between 6 and 10 thousand, being no more than 10 thousand, but I would lean towards 6 thousand more.
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Given estimate from where?
By who?
Using what data?
How does the data come to this conclusion?
By who?
Using what data?
How does the data come to this conclusion?
Alessandro said:
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In regards to the 6000 year estimate it is calculated as you know, in regards to the 10000 year estimate that I would not know.
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It would be interesting to know, as I doubt its biblically literal.
As ICR gives the oldest date the earth could have been based on the Genealogies (the same ones that give us a 6000 year old earth) as around 7500 years old.
To go beyond that I would assume you would have to start either interpreting the bible different, or ignore the Genealogies as an accurate measuring device for the age of the earth.
On a side note, dating the flood with the bible is interesting, as each creationist group seems to have given it a different date.
Hovind gives it a date around 4500 years ago.
Ussher (the original) gives it a date of around 4355 years ago.
AIG in general gives it a date of around 4300 years ago.
Another paper at AIG gives it a date of around 4000 years ago.
Each group used the bible only and each group claims that their interpretation of the bible is literal, and thus their date is correct.
As ICR gives the oldest date the earth could have been based on the Genealogies (the same ones that give us a 6000 year old earth) as around 7500 years old.
To go beyond that I would assume you would have to start either interpreting the bible different, or ignore the Genealogies as an accurate measuring device for the age of the earth.
On a side note, dating the flood with the bible is interesting, as each creationist group seems to have given it a different date.
Hovind gives it a date around 4500 years ago.
Ussher (the original) gives it a date of around 4355 years ago.
AIG in general gives it a date of around 4300 years ago.
Another paper at AIG gives it a date of around 4000 years ago.
Each group used the bible only and each group claims that their interpretation of the bible is literal, and thus their date is correct.
Alessandro said:
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Yes, and if the quoted range is 6-10 kyr then the error is 40%. Contrast that to the age of the earth estimates that are in agreement to within 1%.Arikay said:
Cheers
Joe Meert
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The age of earth is estimated between 6000 and 7500, and the flood to be 4000-4500 years ago, that is good enough.
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No,
the age of the Earth is estimated as 4.57 Gyr.
No accepted evidence for a global flood.
the age of the Earth is estimated as 4.57 Gyr.
No accepted evidence for a global flood.
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J
Jet Black
Guest
fine, explain all the falsifications then. explain why there is no dynamical reason for the universe to have started 6000 years or so ago. explain why there is a dynamical reason for it to have started 14 billion years ago. explain trace fossils, the conconino sandstones, the oklo phenomenon, the ratio of elements, endogenous retroviral sequences ad nauseum. these are but a few smallthings that falsify a yound earth. need I go on?
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So, then you are saying that a tree survived the global flood without ever recording the event, since the current oldest living tree is Older than 4500 years. and even ICR accepts its age.
Alessandro said:
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All I need to know is that from the creation account to today it is only thousands of years, what happened before that I do not know.
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But Alessandro, your view is considered by most people to be an outdated, fringe viewpoint.
My 'view' as you put it is the commonly accepted age as expressed by most of the scientific, educational, governmental and religious communities of the world.
My 'view' as you put it is the commonly accepted age as expressed by most of the scientific, educational, governmental and religious communities of the world.
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