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lucaspa

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gillfrost said:
By Brother here has a point. If it HAD been falsified (truethfully falsified) then dont you think everyone would hear about it. It sounds like a pretty significant find to me. Please enlighten us as to the proof against the flood.
Everyone did hear about it. What we have now are a few people who refuse to listen.

I suggest you start with Davis A. Young's The Biblical Flood: A Case History of the Church's Response to Extrabiblical Evidence and then go to Genesis and Geology by CC Gillespie. You will get the history there.

Initially, the Flood was proposed as the source of all geological formations and rocks. Then it was realized that igneous rock could not be caused by a flood. Then it was realized that metamorphic rock could not be caused by a flood.

By 1800 only the most superficial layers of rock were said to be caused by the Flood. By 1831 even these had been falsified. It was in that year that Rev. Adam Sedgwick stepped down as President of the Royal Geological Society. In his farewell address he announced that the Flood was finally falsified.
"Having been myself a believer, and, to the best of my power, a propagator of what I now regard as a philosophical heresy ... I think it right, as one of my last acts before I quit this Chair, thus publicly to read my recantation. ...
"We ought, indeed, to have paused before we first adopted the diluvian theory, and referred all our old superficial gravel to the action of the Mosaic Flood. For of man, and the works of his hands, we have not yet found a single trace among the remnants of a former world entombed in these ancient deposits." Adam Sedgwick's presidential address to the Geological Society, 1831

That's part of the address.

If you want to get specific:

1. Mile thick salt deposits in Utah and under Lake Erie, formed by evaporation, could not have happened during a Flood. Since they are buried beneath "Flood" sediments, they cannot be evaporation of Flood waters. If they were there before the Flood, the Flood would have dissolved them.

2. Volcanic cones in Auvergne, France. These are very delicate cones whose bases are covered with sedimentary rock laid down after the volcanoes become dormant. If these sediments are from the Flood (as Flood Geology says), then the waters of the Flood would have collapsed the cones.

3. Varves in many places, including the Green River varves.
http://www.glenn.morton.btinternet.co.uk/greenriver.htm
http://gsa.confex.com/gsa/2002AM/finalprogram/session_3276.htm

4. Yellowstone forests:
"In Yellowstone Park there is a stratigraphic section of 2000 feet exposed which shows 18 successive petrified forests. Each forest grew to maturity before it was wiped out with a lava flow. The lava had to be weathered into soil before the next forest could even start. Further this is only a small section of stratigraphic column in this area. It would be most difficult for flood geology to account for these facts."
JL Kulp, Flood geology, J. American Scientific Affiliation, 2: 1-15, 1950.

Kulp is being polite. It's impossible for Flood Geology to account for those facts. There is no way these deposits could be laid down by a Flood.

"I went on to criticize the flood geology of Whitcomb and Morris, introducing some still valid geological arguments that had not previously appeared in discussions of the deluge.
1. I argued that known rates of heat flow from bodies of crystallizing magma pose problems for those who contend that all fossil-bearing rocks were laid down during the single year of the biblical flood. On the New Jersey side of the Hudson River opposite Manhattan, there is a geological formation known as the Palisades sill, a thick sheet of rock of igneous origin that intruded into red sandstones and shales, Flood geologists of the Whitcomb-Morris school hold that the sand-stones and shales were laid down during the course of the flood, and hence they would logically have to assert that the magma was injected into this material during the course of the flood, cooled, hardened, tilted, and eroded before the other flood sediments settled atop it. But this would not have been possible. We know on the basis of heat flow considerations and the thickness of the sill that it would have taken several hundred years to cool and crystallize in the way it now appears. Indeed, many other much larger igneous rock bodies would have re-quired thousands to hundreds of thousands of years to lose their heat in order to crystallize. Flood geologists have made little attempt to refute this line of evidence.
2. Radiometric dating of igneous formations of the sort men-tioned above - formations that according to the Whitcomb-Morris theory must have been produced within the space of a single year -suggest that they are in fact millions of years old. These figures are consistent with ages predicted on the basis of stratigraphical relation-ships with the intruded rocks. Similar examples can be multiplied many times over
3. The phenomena of metamorphism also pose problems for flood geology. In some localities, fossils are found in rocks that also bear evidence of having undergone significant changes (metamorphism) as a result of having been exposed to very high temperatures and pressures. The problem for flood geologists is to show how a sedimen-tary rock, which they contend was formed at the surface of the earth during the course of the flood, could have been buried and heated fast enough to metamorphose. Both heat flow theory and known rates of chemical reactions indicate that such rocks could not possibly have undergone the observed metamorphism within a single year
4. A wealth of evidence associated with modern discoveries about continental drift and sea floor spreading indicate that various kinds of rocks - including varieties that the flood geologists maintain were formed during the course of the flood - must have been formed both before and after the separation of continents. If the flood geologists are right, this would imply that the continents must have been drifting apart substantially during the course of the flood. But thousands of miles of continental drift within the space of a few months is completely inconsistent with any known rates of drift.
I concluded the book with a look at Scripture, arguing that the biblical data (Gen. 2 in particular) suggest that pre-flood geography was fundamentally the same as post-flood geography which precludes the possibility of a global deluge involving a wholesale reorganization of terrestrial surface features. I also affirmed my belief that the biblical flood was in fact a historical event and not merely myth or legend. It was my intent to show how Christians could endorse the idea of a historical flood without having to commit themselves to a flood geology theory that is thoroughly in conflict with the data of creation." Davis A Young, The Biblical Flood, Pp 273-274.
 
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lucaspa

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Brotha Ballew said:
well we can make it a scientific debate right now
No, we can't. Scientifically, the issue was settled long ago. Once a theory is falsified, that's it. And the Flood was falsified.

Now, those threads contain a lot of data. Please go thru them. They represent a lot of time and effort by posters and it is impolite to ask us to post it all again because you are too lazy to click on a link.
 
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Arikay

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Everyone didn't hear about it because it was falsified around 200 years ago, (before darwin even).

I believe the original finds (by christians BTW) was the geological column and fossils. It has yet been explain how the flood formed the geological column or how it placed the fossils in them the specific way they are.

Currently the only places that believe the global flood still happend are creationist organizations, and they aren't known for truthful information. :)
 
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lucaspa

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Brotha Ballew said:
the man who left his chair as you spoke about is no reason for me not to believe, as when i said that darwin became a christian you said that was no reason. i must go now
Haven't you done this before when confronted with the evidence?

By all means. Believe in God. Darwin did when he wrote Origin of the Species. Sedgwick did when he refuted the Flood. Sedgwick remained a Christian.
 
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Phred

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Brotha Ballew said:
the man who left his chair as you spoke about is no reason for me not to believe, as when i said that darwin became a christian you said that was no reason. i must go now
Think brotha... there is nothing that would convince you to not believe. So why are you asking?
 
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Mechanical Bliss

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Brotha Ballew said:
start wherever you want
Which stratum or sequence of strata in the sedimentary rock record are suppoedly representative of this event? If not all of them, it might be easiest to give a range based upon the accepted geologic timescale. This will allow for specific answers relevant to what you claim represents the flood period and will also serve as a reference in case you decide you need to change your mind and/or move the goalposts around. It's always good to establish a firm framework for the discussion first, as there are simply way to many features that falsify the flood to simply list.
 
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lucaspa

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Brotha Ballew said:
the man who left his chair as you spoke about is no reason for me not to believe, as when i said that darwin became a christian you said that was no reason.
Sedgwick is a reason, because he based his conclusions on the data. You based your assertion that Darwin became a Christian on a falsehood. Apples and oranges.

What Sedgwick shows is that the data existed by 1831 to falsify the Flood. Enough evidence to convince the most prominent geologist in the world, head of the Royal Geological Society and an Anglican minister. A perfect position to evaluate the evidence without bias.
 
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lucaspa

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Mechanical Bliss said:
Which stratum or sequence of strata in the sedimentary rock record are suppoedly representative of this event? If not all of them, it might be easiest to give a range based upon the accepted geologic timescale. This will allow for specific answers relevant to what you claim represents the flood period and will also serve as a reference in case you decide you need to change your mind and/or move the goalposts around. It's always good to establish a firm framework for the discussion first, as there are simply way to many features that falsify the flood to simply list.
Sorry, Mechanical, but Brotha has run away. He won't be back.
 
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platzapS

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To give you a possible answer, Brotha--Many who believe in a global flood think that earth was mainly of a tropical or temperate climate. Pretty much, the whole world was like the Garden of Eden. I've heard that the Noah's Flood created many of the deserts, canyons, and mountain ranges.

Many, however, do not accept a global flood, because much science suggests otherwise.
 
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Mechanical Bliss

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Mechanical Bliss said:
Which stratum or sequence of strata in the sedimentary rock record are suppoedly representative of this event? If not all of them, it might be easiest to give a range based upon the accepted geologic timescale. This will allow for specific answers relevant to what you claim represents the flood period and will also serve as a reference in case you decide you need to change your mind and/or move the goalposts around. It's always good to establish a firm framework for the discussion first, as there are simply way to many features that falsify the flood to simply list.
Bumped since the OPer is back.
 
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JGMEERT

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LOL! Ask for specifics and the post is doomed. This has been my experience for 7+ years of debate. Heck, even YEC are starting to admit that they have no idea when the flood started and ended. Kurt Wise told me so last year at GSA (Geological Society of America).
John Morris writes:
“For example, if accelerated decay occurred only during the Flood, then strata which were laid down before the Flood should show different ratios of radioisotopes and daughter products than strata laid down during or following the Flood. Because there are still major differences of opinion about the location of the Flood boundaries, this is expected to be difficult. In fact, a study of the distribution of the parent and daughter elements relative to the Flood may go a long way toward helping define the boundaries of Flood strata.” John Morris, “Introduction,” in Vardiman et al, editors, Radioactivity and the Age of the Earth, (El Cajon: ICR and CRS, 2000), p. 8
and

Andrew Snelling writes:
It may well be that these halo data also help to resolve where the Creation and Flood boundaries are in the geologic record.” A. A. Snelling, “Radiohalos,” in Vardiman et al, editors, Radioisotopes and the Age of the Earth, (El Cajon: ICR and CRS, 2000), p. 455
JM: One wonders where the defining event in earth history has gone. No one seems to be able to locate it, yet they are willing to claim it is THE EVENT in geological history.

Cheers

Joe Meert
 
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Mechanical Bliss

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Mechanical Bliss said:
Which stratum or sequence of strata in the sedimentary rock record are suppoedly representative of this event? If not all of them, it might be easiest to give a range based upon the accepted geologic timescale. This will allow for specific answers relevant to what you claim represents the flood period and will also serve as a reference in case you decide you need to change your mind and/or move the goalposts around. It's always good to establish a firm framework for the discussion first, as there are simply way to many features that falsify the flood to simply list.
Bumped because the OPer is back again. Will this just go unaddressed as usual?
 
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JGMEERT

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Alessandro said:
So far both sides list their views as what really happenend, and personally I'm with the Bible in regards to the flood being global.
JM: Any evidence? Or just an opinion? So far, all the geologic evidence proves no global flood.

Cheers

Joe Meert
 
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