The Flood

[Josh1]

Mechanical Bliss:The accretion of matter in the solar system and gravity.

Where did the matter come from? Where did the gravity come from?

Mechanical BLiss:and that negates modern science how exactly?

Seeing how we disagree,it seems like a lot. But I would like say we are not discussing science here. Evolution is a religion. There are no facts to this theory.

Mechanical Bliss:No, I'd say definitely not. Besides, it seems like you're arguing purely from personal incredulity rather than knowledge from actually studying science.

Please tell me the experiment that proved something came from nothing. Personal incredulous has nothing to do with it. I want facts. If I drove up to your college, could you make something come from nothing? No, you could not.

Everything has had a creator,this should not be different. What great invention came about without a creator. God Bless

 

[Arikay]

What about a refutation of most of his arguments, will that do?

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/hovind/howgood.html

Although i am expecting this to be "not enough" to convince you.

Arikay:1) You never answered my question,
if we showed DrDino lied to you, would you still believe him?

The anser is no. If you showed me beyond a shadow of a doubt that he was wrong then I would not believe him. But so far all I have got is a bunch of assumptions. Dr.Hovind is not right on everything,neither am I, and neither are any of yall. So if your just gonna try pinpoint some little things and say because of that I should disreguard all of what he says,its not gonna work.

 

[Josh1]

DrLao:

Doesn't it also say in that verse that the heavens are held up and unfurled like a tent?

Ah, here it is...

Isaiah 40:22
"He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in."

The heavens are above the earth like a canopy or tent. You can't pitch a tent around a sphere. You do it over a flat surface. So, the second half here also says the Earth is flat.

Lao, how many times have you read through the Bible with an open mind. This is a metaphor. It also says that men are like grasshoppers. Are we grasshoppers? Of course not. It's just commenting on how God created the earth. The Heavens are above us.

Gracchus:
Bravo, Josh1! Your arguments refuted, you nevertheless deny defeat and proclaim a draw. You are not the first and I dare say you will not be the last creationist to use this smoke-screen tactic.

Smoke screen? This is a question that no evolutionist can answer and it is not science. So it should not be taught in schools. That was my whole point in the beginning. I do not believe I proclaimed a draw. Please give me more detail. God Bless.

 

[Jet Black]

Where did the matter come from? Where did the gravity come from?

all this line of thought will ever reduce to, is where did the universe come from. as yet this is not a question science can answer. however once the universe started, everything else is just natural processes and physical laws. There are a number of possible "first causes" and deity is just one of them.

Seeing how we disagree,it seems like a lot. But I would like say we are not discussing science here. Evolution is a religion. There are no facts to this theory.

yes there are.

Please tell me the experiment that proved something came from nothing.

no-one ever said something came from nothing. however there are alot of people who say that people say something comes from nothing.

Everything has had a creator,this should not be different.

perhaps everything does have a creator, but that does not mean the creator is intelligent, sentient, all poweful and/or benevolent.

 

[Jet Black]

there should be a delete post option.

 

[Arikay]

Well, you could always fake a deleted post by editing what you type to *post deleted by user* or something like that.

 

[Jet Black]

Well, you could always fake a deleted post by editing what you type to *post deleted by user* or something like that.

how about a comedy *post deleted by moderator for irrefutably destroying young earth creationism* option?

 

[Josh1]

jet black:There are a number of possible "first causes" and deity is just one of them.

So you admit that ours is just as good. My point exactly. They should both be taught in school. In my own opinion,Deity is better because the world has to have a creator.

jet black:no-one ever said something came from nothing. however there are alot of people who say that people say something comes from nothing.

Yeah they did.

jet black:perhaps everything does have a creator, but that does not mean the creator is intelligent, sentient, all poweful and/or benevolent.

Evidently this creator is pretty smart. He has created something that no man could even comprehend of creating.

jet black: how about a comedy *post deleted by moderator for irrefutably destroying young earth creationism* option?

It would have to be a comedy,cause in reality, thats what your theory is. It will never happen. God Bless.

 

[Jet Black]

jet black:There are a number of possible "first causes" and deity is just one of them.

So you admit that ours is just as good. My point exactly. They should both be taught in school. In my own opinion,Deity is better because the world has to have a creator.

well you can say we don't know how the big bang started in schools, and tell them that it could have been one of a number of explanations, of which deity is only one it would be a bit confusing to tell children about logical necessity, quantum fluctiuations and ekpyrotic, but if you want to, then sure. Your opinion is your opinion. the universe does not "need" a creator, at least not an intelligent one. if you can demonstrate why it needs a creator, then feel free.

jet black:no-one ever said something came from nothing. however there are alot of people who say that people say something comes from nothing.

Yeah they did.

well they were wrong if they said that.

jet black:perhaps everything does have a creator, but that does not mean the creator is intelligent, sentient, all poweful and/or benevolent.

Evidently this creator is pretty smart. He has created something that no man could even comprehend of creating.

so? natural processes do alot of things that people cannot comprehend. you have not justified at all why a "creator" even needs to be intelligent

jet black: how about a comedy *post deleted by moderator for irrefutably destroying young earth creationism* option?

It would have to be a comedy,cause in reality, thats what your theory is. It will never happen. God Bless.

what is my theory?

 

[jesusisthewtl]

Jet Black if I'm not mistaken, you are saying that the universe could have been created but not by an intelligent creator. Is this correct.

We as humans have never witnessed natural processes doing anything remotely similar to what you are giving them credit for.

I would be pleased to be enlightened on a small portion of your theory.

 

[LorentzHA]

I highly suggest that you research his model of the flood. One cannot come to the conclusion that one answer is absolutly correct. By doing so we allow ourselves to become closeminded. If you find yourself capable of checkng out his book I would highly suggest it.

On a personal question, what do you yourself belive about creation?

Is he the guy fro mthe little town of Glen Rose, Texas who put up a road side creation exidences museaum to soothe the nerves of loca lholy rollers since REAL Dinosaur tracks have been found in Glen Rose and it is the Disnosaur tracks that gives this tiny Bible Belt town most of its income via tourists..yet this nut wanted to put up a creation evidences musueam? Same guy? It is a Road Side shop to buy souvenir Bibles and for someone with a Dr. in front of his name to tell you God is real....

 

[Josh1]

jet black:well you can say we don't know how the big bang started in schools

Exactly, I could be safe to say that you could not prove it all.
jet black: Your opinion is your opinion. the universe does not "need" a creator, at least not an intelligent one. if you can demonstrate why it needs a creator, then feel free.

Just for the simple reason that nothing was ever made without a creator. Is that good enough?

jet black:so? natural processes do alot of things that people cannot comprehend. you have not justified at all why a "creator" even needs to be intelligent

Like Jesusistheway said, you are going way overboard with natural processes.

jet black: what is my theory?

Do I have to explain to you your own theory? Thank you and God Bless.

 

[Josh1]

BTW, since most of the evolutionist are to scared to face up to Dr.Hovind in a live debate. I have found someone who says on his website that he will debate anyone in a written debate. His name is Walt Brown and here is what he says: Introduction

The following offer is for a written, scientific debate on the creation-evolution issue. It addresses a longstanding desire by the public for a comprehensive and understandable comparison of the two main explanations for how everything began—a heated issue in which little constructive dialogue has occurred. Scientific disagreements can and should be discussed without acrimony.

Notice several things about this offer. It is balanced and comprehensive. Evolutionists who disagree with these proposed debate procedures but wish to participate can propose their own suggestions for a written, strictly scientific debate. They must sign a statement, as I will, that they will abide by the editor’s decisions resolving disagreements about debate procedures.

However, the debate must be restricted to science and avoid religion, a broader, more complex, and less-structured subject. (Because I am not a theologian, I will not debate those topics. My focus is on the scientific evidence relating to origins.) Scientific methodology is also better understood by more people. Indeed, methods for reaching religious conclusions are diverse, subjective, and cultural. Religious disagreements have been with us for thousands of years. A purely scientific debate will be broad enough.

Many can participate on the evolutionist side. Only the lead evolutionist must hold a doctorate in either applied or basic sciences. Those who wish to participate but have no formal qualifications may recruit a lead evolutionist and offer their services to the evolutionist side. (A lack of recognized qualifications does not mean a person has nothing to contribute. However, without them, many readers might dismiss that side’s case or conclude that a poor performance resulted, not from a weak case, but from a lack of scientific qualifications.)

Once a lead evolutionist agrees to participate, we will search for and select an editor associated with a large, neutral publisher. I am confident many publishers will be interested. Those invited may conclude that one or both sides have not demonstrated the ability to produce a credible, unemotional, and thorough case, understandable to most readers. If so, sales of the final, book-length debate would suffer. This, after all, is a publisher’s main concern. Editors and publishers may also conclude that one side is unprepared to address all relevant disciplines in the creation-evolution issue: life sciences, astronomical sciences, earth sciences, physical sciences, and their many subdisciplines. If so, the editor and publisher might ask one side to add qualified people to its side or withdraw.

The editor/publisher may require both sides of the debate to sign a contract to complete the manuscript as described in this offer. Because the publisher has “first right of refusal” and makes no commitment to publish the completed debate, the publisher has much to gain with no risk.

Walt Brown

So now we have no excuses.

 

[Josh1]

Heres the ip address. http://www.creationscience.com/

 

[Arikay]

LoL.

Hmm, at one point I was answering CSC's 20 questions to evolutionists, maybe I should get back to that.

Of course, it does not appear CSC knows what evolution is or how to count, as its around 40 questions (not 20) and almost half of those are not questions about the theory of evolution.

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

Josh, did you know that Walt Brown won't even try to publish his hydroplate nonsense in the Creationist version of scientific journals? This came up on CARM a few years back. Brown knows that his stuff is so bogus it would even be rejected by ICR and AiG and when your nonsense is such nonsense that even the prime promoters of YEC nonsense at ICR and AiG think it's nonsense it is really nonsense.

The idea that "liquefaction" could cause the sorting found in the fossil record is also totally ridiculous. To me the debate just looks like an excuse to get someone to help him write a book he can sell.

BTW did you ever write anything 100,000 words in length? I just checked out a report that I wrote that is 36 pages long. It has just over 12,000 words. I don't know why anyone would be willing to take up the challenge. It will be lot of work to write 4, 100,000 word sections.

The Frumious Bandersnatch

 

[LorentzHA]

Oh Lucaspa.... (looking around) Lucaspa??? Has anyone seen Lucaspa lately? He would have a field day with this one! I hope he is OK have not seen him post lately.

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

Oh Lucaspa.... (looking around) Lucaspa??? Has anyone seen Lucaspa lately? He would have a field day with this one! I hope he is OK have not seen him post lately.

Maybe he has a life. It intrudes on us sometimes.

 

[LorentzHA]

Heres the ip address. http://www.creationscience.com/[/QUOTE]

I have never understood why "true believers" spend so much time trying to debunk Evolution?? It seems if they were confident 100% with their own faith-they could care less. I suspect it is the nagging thoughts based on logic that keeps them at this.

Before trying to debunk Evolution.. can you "prove" your own belief system? That may be where some of the anger and resentment is stemming from?? If I was 100% sure about my faith I could care less what anyone had to say about it..the only reason I would care is if science echoed the nagging questions I had in my own mind and science represented my own fears-so I made it an enemy??

 

[LorentzHA]

Maybe he has a life. It intrudes on us sometimes.

LOL..good point, I know I hate when that happens ....miss reading his posts, however. I like yours and many of the other guys as well, I just really enjoy his writing style for some reason.