The First Resurrection questions

1stcenturylady · Aug 15, 2018

My question is about those who are resurrected in the first resurrection. Edit: And who reigns? - all Christians or those martyred.

Are they ONLY those who actually died for Christ? Or is it saying that all Christians will be raised, but only those who were actually martyred will reign with Him? They paid the ultimate price. They are the martyrs.

I could be wrong, but it only mentions those who were beheaded. I doubt it is limited to just beheading, or just in the last 7 years before Christ returns, the Great Tribulation, but if I'm going to believe what is written, then it might be.

Then only those who were beheaded in the last week of the Jews will reign, which means Jews, and will join those already on thrones and reigning. Not all Christians are martyred. So are we who die naturally in the first resurrection or the second where the Books are opened? It isn't clear.

All of the rest of the dead, which seems to include those whose names are in the Book of Life as well as those whose aren't will be raised after the Millennium. Read this and tell me what you think. In your answers keep in mind that those in the 1st century who Paul is writing to were being martyred left and right. All the apostles were except John, though they tried to boil him in oil, so I would let him into this group already reigning. He was willing.

Revelation 20:
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.... 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life... 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

It doesn't say in Chapter 20:12-15 what happened to those whose names were written in the Book of Life, who were not martyred, which I find odd, and leaves me confused.

(BTW, did Christian Forums remove the forum on end times and eschatology?)

SkyWriting · Aug 15, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
All the apostles were except John, though they tried to boil him in oil, so I would let him into this group already reigning. He was willing.

Revelation 20:
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.... 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life... 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

It doesn't say in Chapter 20:12-15 what happened to those whose names were written in the Book of Life, who were not martyred, which I find odd, and leaves me confused.

(BTW, did Christian Forums remove the forum on end times and eschatology?)

I couldn't find any deep-fried references.

AlexDTX · Aug 15, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
My question is about those who are resurrected in the first resurrection.

Are they ONLY those who actually died for Christ? Or is it saying that all Christians will be raised, but only those who were actually martyred will reign with Him? They paid the ultimate price. They are the martyrs.

I could be wrong, but it only mentions those who were beheaded. I doubt it is limited to just beheading, or just in the last 7 years before Christ returns, the Great Tribulation, but if I'm going to believe what is written, then it might be.

Then only those who were beheaded in the last week of the Jews will reign, which means Jews, and will join those already on thrones and reigning. Not all Christians are martyred. So are we who die naturally in the first resurrection or the second where the Books are opened? It isn't clear.

All of the rest of the dead, which seems to include those whose names are in the Book of Life as well as those whose aren't will be raised after the Millennium. Read this and tell me what you think. In your answers keep in mind that those in the 1st century who Paul is writing to were being martyred left and right. All the apostles were except John, though they tried to boil him in oil, so I would let him into this group already reigning. He was willing.

Revelation 20:
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.... 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life... 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

It doesn't say in Chapter 20:12-15 what happened to those whose names were written in the Book of Life, who were not martyred, which I find odd, and leaves me confused.

(BTW, did Christian Forums remove the forum on end times and eschatology?)

None of the above. It is all believers with the new birth. We died with Christ and were raised with him. He is the first resurrection.

Chinchilla · Aug 15, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
Are they ONLY those who actually died for Christ? Or is it saying that all Christians will be raised, but only those who were actually martyred will reign with Him? They paid the ultimate price. They are the martyrs.

Dying is easy , living is hard .

First resurrection is part which started with Christ and ends up with saved OT saints raised from dead , second resurrections are people which are condemned , judged by the ones who were raised in the first .

bcbsr · Aug 15, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
My question is about those who are resurrected in the first resurrection.

Are they ONLY those who actually died for Christ? Or is it saying that all Christians will be raised, but only those who were actually martyred will reign with Him? They paid the ultimate price. They are the martyrs.

I could be wrong, but it only mentions those who were beheaded. I doubt it is limited to just beheading, or just in the last 7 years before Christ returns, the Great Tribulation, but if I'm going to believe what is written, then it might be.

Then only those who were beheaded in the last week of the Jews will reign, which means Jews, and will join those already on thrones and reigning. Not all Christians are martyred. So are we who die naturally in the first resurrection or the second where the Books are opened? It isn't clear.

All of the rest of the dead, which seems to include those whose names are in the Book of Life as well as those whose aren't will be raised after the Millennium. Read this and tell me what you think. In your answers keep in mind that those in the 1st century who Paul is writing to were being martyred left and right. All the apostles were except John, though they tried to boil him in oil, so I would let him into this group already reigning. He was willing.

Revelation 20:
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.... 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life... 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

It doesn't say in Chapter 20:12-15 what happened to those whose names were written in the Book of Life, who were not martyred, which I find odd, and leaves me confused.

(BTW, did Christian Forums remove the forum on end times and eschatology?)

1Thess 4:
13 Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep, or to grieve like the rest of men, who have no hope.
14 We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him.
15 According to the Lord’s own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep.
16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

All who are in Christ who have died will be raised upon Christ's return. Then those in Christ who were alive at the time will be raptured.

SkyWriting · Aug 15, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
My question is about those who are resurrected in the first resurrection.

All believers in God with faith.

1stcenturylady · Aug 15, 2018

AlexDTX said:
None of the above. It is all believers with the new birth. We died with Christ and were raised with him. He is the first resurrection.

Jesus is the 'first resurrection'...good point to add to the mix of answers.

1stcenturylady · Aug 15, 2018

AlexDTX said:
None of the above. It is all believers with the new birth. We died with Christ and were raised with him. He is the first resurrection.

I edited my OP to clarify my question further. Who reigns? All Christians, or those martyred.

oldrunner · Aug 15, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
My question is about those who are resurrected in the first resurrection.

Are they ONLY those who actually died for Christ? Or is it saying that all Christians will be raised, but only those who were actually martyred will reign with Him? They paid the ultimate price. They are the martyrs.

I could be wrong, but it only mentions those who were beheaded. I doubt it is limited to just beheading, or just in the last 7 years before Christ returns, the Great Tribulation, but if I'm going to believe what is written, then it might be.

Then only those who were beheaded in the last week of the Jews will reign, which means Jews, and will join those already on thrones and reigning. Not all Christians are martyred. So are we who die naturally in the first resurrection or the second where the Books are opened? It isn't clear.

All of the rest of the dead, which seems to include those whose names are in the Book of Life as well as those whose aren't will be raised after the Millennium. Read this and tell me what you think. In your answers keep in mind that those in the 1st century who Paul is writing to were being martyred left and right. All the apostles were except John, though they tried to boil him in oil, so I would let him into this group already reigning. He was willing.

Revelation 20:
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.... 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life... 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

It doesn't say in Chapter 20:12-15 what happened to those whose names were written in the Book of Life, who were not martyred, which I find odd, and leaves me confused.

(BTW, did Christian Forums remove the forum on end times and eschatology?)

I believe the Scriptures gives us the order of the resurrection: 1st Cor. 15, says that Christ is the first fruit of the resurrection of the dead. Then they that are at His coming (Parousia).

The "coming" or Parousia is when all the dead in Christ will be raised. This includes the OT saints and those martyred during the Great Tribulation. Hebrews 11:40, shows we will all be perfected at the same time.

The thing to understand about this word "Parousia", is there are many things that will take place when Jesus comes back, but all are considered part of His "coming". Much like when an important dignitary visits a town. He arrives, travels around, and then goes to a house to stay. This Parousia will play out over about 1 year, IMO. The key is to study out this word and see when the Parousia starts, and when He finally takes possession of the Kingdom. This is what I've done.

So, you have an "arrival" when Jesus will first appear. (Mat 24, Rev 6, 2nd Thess. 2) This will happen after the tribulation of those days-according to Jesus. The tribulation of those days will be "cut short", signs in the Heaven and on Earth announcing this. Then He will send His angels to gather the elect-which includes these Great Tribulation martyrs. This is the first resurrection spoken of by Paul.

He will then be present and active in judgement on the Earth, while the Church is in heaven. After the marriage is consummated in Heaven, He will come back, smite the armies gathered in Israel (Rev. 19), and then take possession of the Kingdom. (Rev. 20). He will then set up His Kingdom with judges-the 12 apostles. (Mat 19:28, Luke 22:30)

IMO, I believe certain Church age and OT saints will have a job right at the start of the Kingdom- just like the twelve. They know how the Temple worked, and sacrifices and such. (Ezek. 40-48) Everyone else will be dwelling in the Heavenly city, and as population increases, we will be needed to rule/judge over the Gentiles that live outside the boarders of the land. We will be ambassadors of the King, serving in small or big towns-according to our reward, and our portion God has given us. ( Mat. 25) The only qualification is they need to come up to worship the Lord during the feast of Tabernacles. This will be different than the Israelites. (Zech. 14:16-21) This is our reward for faithfulness in this life. Some may only serve God in the Heavenly city. This will be up to Him.

John, in Revelation 20, is simply giving a broad "theme", of what he was seeing then. He saw Satan thrown in bottomless pit-and comments on that. He sees the people judging and reigning with God-and comments on that. He sees the Tribulation martyrs- that were only souls before, and sees them resurrected and living now. He then says, this is the first resurrection- in alignment with what Paul said.

What throws people off is the timing of this event. People that know the Greek say the verb, " lived", is aorist tense, which does not have to mean it happened right then, but could of happen in the past. Here is the article.

The second resurrection comes then after the 1000 years. This lines up with 1st Cor. 15:24-29, "then comes the end". That this is what it is talking about can be seen in that the last enemy that is judged is death it's self. (Rev. 20:13-14)

So, all the Saved will be resurrected at the first resurrection-OT, NT, Trib. saints. We all will reign with Christ, but that will take place in time as population increases and we are needed, IMO. I mean, it only makes sense you have to have people to reign over/judge.

https://theorangemailmanmyblog.word...irst-resurrection-timing-often-misunderstood/

1stcenturylady · Aug 15, 2018

oldrunner said:
I believe the Scriptures gives us the order of the resurrection: 1st Cor. 15, says that Christ is the first fruit of the resurrection of the dead. Then they that are at His coming (Parousia).

The "coming" or Parousia is when all the dead in Christ will be raised. This includes the OT saints and those martyred during the Great Tribulation. Hebrews 11:40, shows we will all be perfected at the same time.

The thing to understand about this word "Parousia", is there are many things that will take place when Jesus comes back, but all are considered part of His "coming". Much like when an important dignitary visits a town. He arrives, travels around, and then goes to a house to stay. This Parousia will play out over about 1 year, IMO. The key is to study out this word and see when the Parousia starts, and when He finally takes possession of the Kingdom. This is what I've done.

So, you have an "arrival" when Jesus will first appear. (Mat 24, Rev 6, 2nd Thess. 2) This will happen after the tribulation of those days-according to Jesus. The tribulation of those days will be "cut short", signs in the Heaven and on Earth announcing this. Then He will send His angels to gather the elect-which includes these Great Tribulation martyrs. This is the first resurrection spoken of by Paul.

He will then be present and active in judgement on the Earth, while the Church is in heaven. After the marriage is consummated in Heaven, He will come back, smite the armies gathered in Israel (Rev. 19), and then take possession of the Kingdom. (Rev. 20). He will then set up His Kingdom with judges-the 12 apostles. (Mat 19:28, Luke 22:30)

IMO, I believe certain Church age and OT saints will have a job right at the start of the Kingdom- just like the twelve. They know how the Temple worked, and sacrifices and such. (Ezek. 40-48) Everyone else will be dwelling in the Heavenly city, and as population increases, we will be needed to rule/judge over the Gentiles that live outside the boarders of the land. We will be ambassadors of the King, serving in small or big towns-according to our reward, and our portion God has given us. ( Mat. 25) The only qualification is they need to come up to worship the Lord during the feast of Tabernacles. This will be different than the Israelites. (Zech. 14:16-21) This is our reward for faithfulness in this life. Some may only serve God in the Heavenly city. This will be up to Him.

John, in Revelation 20, is simply giving a broad "theme", of what he was seeing then. He saw Satan thrown in bottomless pit-and comments on that. He sees the people judging and reigning with God-and comments on that. He sees the Tribulation martyrs- that were only souls before, and sees them resurrected and living now. He then says, this is the first resurrection- in alignment with what Paul said.

What throws people off is the timing of this event. People that know the Greek say the verb, " lived", is aorist tense, which does not have to mean it happened right then, but could of happen in the past. Here is the article.

The second resurrection comes then after the 1000 years. This lines up with 1st Cor. 15:24-29, "then comes the end". That this is what it is talking about can be seen in that the last enemy that is judged is death it's self. (Rev. 20:13-14)

So, all the Saved will be resurrected at the first resurrection-OT, NT, Trib. saints. We all will reign with Christ, but that will take place in time as population increases and we are needed, IMO. I mean, it only makes sense you have to have people to reign over/judge.

https://theorangemailmanmyblog.word...irst-resurrection-timing-often-misunderstood/

So if you say we ALL will reign, what do you do with the inference those who are on the thrones are only the martyrs?

As far as population, sinners do not die at the second coming. I see it the martyrs will reign also over Christians who were not martyrs.

SeventyOne · Aug 15, 2018

That resurrection actually comes in 3 parts and is symbolized in the rules surrounding the harvest. The harvest has 3 parts, the first fruits, the main harvest and the gleanings. The fist fruit was the resurrection of Christ and of those who were seen in Jerusalem after they rose from the dead. Paul even references Christ as our Firstfruits on several occasions. The second is the main harvest, where the living and dead in Christ are taken in the rapture, and the third are the gleanings, which are those you are reading about in Revelation 20.

The gleanings were the part of the harvest where the owner of the field had no authority to gather the crop himself. It was left to the poor to do so. Likewise, this group of people are seen under the Throne of God asking when they will be avenged and God tells them to wait until they all have died. It's at that time the AC and his followers (the poor in spirit) are given the authority to overcome and kill those saints. And as they do, their number grows to completion under the Throne of God. That revelation 20 passage outlines their part in the resurrection. The other parts are seen elsewhere.

oldrunner · Aug 15, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
So if you say we ALL will reign, what do you do with the inference those who are on the thrones are only the martyrs?

As far as population, sinners do not die at the second coming. I see it the martyrs will reign also over Christians who were not martyrs.

It doesn't infer that in my way of thinking. He's just stating what he saw. But it seems Jesus has the 12 apostles in line to rule/judge Israel-as I gave the verses above, at least infer this from what Jesus taught.

2nd Tim 2:10-13, show's it's the elect that will reign with Him. We are all elect/chosen, who are truly saved. ( Romans 8:33, Col. 3:12, 1st Pet 1:2 KJV ) In Rev. 5:10, seems to be clear it is talking about all Christians reigning with Him.

Either way, I'll serve wherever God wants. I'll be happy just to be there!

AlexDTX · Aug 15, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
I edited my OP to clarify my question further. Who reigns? All Christians, or those martyred.

In the parable of the talents we see that everyone was rewarded according to his ability, except the one who buried his talent. We all reign, but we do not all reign the same - it will be according to our ability.

tranquil · Aug 15, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
My question is about those who are resurrected in the first resurrection.

Are they ONLY those who actually died for Christ? Or is it saying that all Christians will be raised, but only those who were actually martyred will reign with Him? They paid the ultimate price. They are the martyrs.

I could be wrong, but it only mentions those who were beheaded. I doubt it is limited to just beheading, or just in the last 7 years before Christ returns, the Great Tribulation, but if I'm going to believe what is written, then it might be.

Then only those who were beheaded in the last week of the Jews will reign, which means Jews, and will join those already on thrones and reigning. Not all Christians are martyred. So are we who die naturally in the first resurrection or the second where the Books are opened? It isn't clear.

All of the rest of the dead, which seems to include those whose names are in the Book of Life as well as those whose aren't will be raised after the Millennium. Read this and tell me what you think. In your answers keep in mind that those in the 1st century who Paul is writing to were being martyred left and right. All the apostles were except John, though they tried to boil him in oil, so I would let him into this group already reigning. He was willing.

Revelation 20:
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.... 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life... 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

It doesn't say in Chapter 20:12-15 what happened to those whose names were written in the Book of Life, who were not martyred, which I find odd, and leaves me confused.

(BTW, did Christian Forums remove the forum on end times and eschatology?)

There are 2 instances of Satan appearing: Revelation 17:8

8The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to rise from the bottomless pit and go to destruction. And the dwellers on earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world will marvel to see the beast, because it was and is not and is to come.

When it 'was' & when it 'is'.

Now Revelation 20

And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. 2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3 He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.

4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. 9 They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. 10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Satan 'was', then is bound in the abyss, then 'is'. The problem lies in the wording of the '1000 years'. there is not literally 1000 years between the 1st instance & 2nd instance of Satan coming up. But prophecy is deliberately ambiguous and it is not going to tell people that there are actually 266 days between instances (as an example, which is also my opinion). So it says 1000 years to be ambiguous, as 2 Peter 3:8 is ambiguous.

The '1000 years' are over when Satan is released, the 'is' portion of Revelation 17:8. And so where are the resurrections? At the 7th Seal, Revelation 7's 144,000 & 'great multitude': the dead are gathered in heaven, the living gathered on earth. Then also at the 'come up here' of Revelation 11:12 with the 2 witnesses. These comprise the '1st resurrection'. There is no 2nd resurrection.

Everyone who is killed during the great tribulation that occurs at Satan's 1st appearance will be resurrected, in heaven. Christians who survive until the end/ until the kingdom of God rules the earth/ until the 7th Trumpet are symbolically resurrected a la the dry bones of Ezekiel 37:1-17 and will be part of the New Jerusalem.

PS, yes the eschatology forum is still up.

JIMINZ · Aug 15, 2018

In order to determine who did what when.

You would first have to determine when the Rapture actually IS/WAS.

We alive today, do not know what transpired in 70AD.

The 1,000 yr. reign could have already ended.

Or the 1,000 yr. reign will actually last another 364,000 more yrs.

We don't know and we won't know until it happens.

As far as the who part of the question, to my mind it is clearly the Martyred.

1stcenturylady · Aug 15, 2018

JIMINZ said:
As far as the who part of the question, to my mind it is clearly the Martyred.

I agree.

The rest of you post is a mixture of a lot of "out there" modern doctrines I don't bother with.

JIMINZ · Aug 15, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
The rest of you post is a mixture of a lot of "out there" modern doctrines I don't bother with.

.
That wasn't needed.

Erik Nelson · Apr 1, 2019

1stcenturylady said:
So if you say we ALL will reign, what do you do with the inference those who are on the thrones are only the martyrs?

As far as population, sinners do not die at the second coming. I see it the martyrs will reign also over Christians who were not martyrs.

not even all martyrs, only them who were beheaded

saint James circa 44ad, saint Paul circa 66ad

tangent, Paul was denounced by Alexander the coppersmith (2 Timothy 3 or so)

coppersmithing = occult knowledge attributed to the fallen watcher demons of 1 Enoch, Genesis 6:1-4

cxn??

Jonathan Mathews · Apr 2, 2019

1stcenturylady said:
My question is about those who are resurrected in the first resurrection. Edit: And who reigns? - all Christians or those martyred.

Are they ONLY those who actually died for Christ? Or is it saying that all Christians will be raised, but only those who were actually martyred will reign with Him? They paid the ultimate price. They are the martyrs.

I could be wrong, but it only mentions those who were beheaded. I doubt it is limited to just beheading, or just in the last 7 years before Christ returns, the Great Tribulation, but if I'm going to believe what is written, then it might be.

Then only those who were beheaded in the last week of the Jews will reign, which means Jews, and will join those already on thrones and reigning. Not all Christians are martyred. So are we who die naturally in the first resurrection or the second where the Books are opened? It isn't clear.

All of the rest of the dead, which seems to include those whose names are in the Book of Life as well as those whose aren't will be raised after the Millennium. Read this and tell me what you think. In your answers keep in mind that those in the 1st century who Paul is writing to were being martyred left and right. All the apostles were except John, though they tried to boil him in oil, so I would let him into this group already reigning. He was willing.

Revelation 20:
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.... 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life... 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

It doesn't say in Chapter 20:12-15 what happened to those whose names were written in the Book of Life, who were not martyred, which I find odd, and leaves me confused.

(BTW, did Christian Forums remove the forum on end times and eschatology?)

The First Resurrection is the first WIDESPREAD resurrection and transformation of Christians' into their eternal bodies. It occurs at the start of the 1,000 Year Reign of Christ on earth, and is promised only for those martyred in the last days. While there is no Scripture that excludes other Christians from this 1st Resurrection, it is not PROMISED for them and nowhere in Scripture are all believers mentioned as being part of it. The 1st Resurrection (of the 2 widespread resurrections) and the subsequent 1,000 year reign with Christ is a specific Reward promised only to end times martyrs.

JIMINZ · Apr 2, 2019

Jonathan Mathews said:
The First Resurrection is the first WIDESPREAD resurrection and transformation of Christians' into their eternal bodies. It occurs at the start of the 1,000 Year Reign of Christ on earth, and is promised only for those martyred in the last days. While there is no Scripture that excludes other Christians from this 1st Resurrection, it is not PROMISED for them and nowhere in Scripture are all believers mentioned as being part of it. The 1st Resurrection (of the 2 widespread resurrections) and the subsequent 1,000 year reign with Christ is a specific Reward promised only to end times martyrs.

According to Scripture, those who do not take part in the First Resurrection, have the power of the Second Death over them.

Rev 20:6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Rev. 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Those of the Second Death

Rev. 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Rev. 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

So then the question arises, doesn't the Second Death have a direct affect upon every Christian (Believer) who does not take part in the First Resurrection?

When we look at the word Resurrection with our understanding of it, is it a Physical or Spiritual coming alive, and just when does this First Resurrection actually take place, for we are not told about a Second Resurrection taking place, only that

1Th. 4:16
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Aren't these Dead in Christ every Christian, for Paul does not differentiate between the so called Martyrs and the regular run of the mill Christian, it just says those that are Dead in Christ, doesn't that include you and I.

1Co. 15:51
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall ("ALL") be changed,

1Th. 4:14
For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

1Th. 5:10
Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

The point being, when we are dead Physically and in the grave, we will not then be Resurrected unto Newness of life, for even though we may be Dead Physically, we are Alive Spiritually, having already been Resurrected with Christ unto Newness of life, which is in Christ at our Baptism, we are Born Again, and Regenerated in Christ.

Mat. 22:31,32
31) But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
32) I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

Mark 12:27
He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.

Luke 20:38
For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.

How then can I be Resurrected again?

John 11:21-26
21) Then said Martha unto Jesus, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died.
22) But I know, that even now, whatsoever thou wilt ask of God, God will give it thee.
23) Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
24) Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
25) Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26) And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

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