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The first heart?

ReverendDG

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"... [Pythagoras said] that deliberation (nous), and reason (phren), reside in the brain...." -- Diogenes Laertius, historian, 3rd century
i want to point this out, a lot of philosophers believed a lot of things that we know are true now, but their reasons for doing so are not remotely close to why we accept those things.
plus many philosophers did not accept another philosophers claims, such as aristotle, who was around that time, he believed the brain was for cooling the blood and the heart was the source of emotion and thought

"...in fact Egyptian and Pythagorean [are one]." -- Herodotos, historian, Book II, ~440-420 B.C.
which is nothing but a quote-mine if you bothered to learn about what herodotos thought of the pythagoreans, you would know that he thought the group was doing rituals, herodotos thought they were a religious group!

because that is what all your quotes are talking about, pythagoras went to egypt and learned religious philosophy from the priests.

so, you are just plain making up fabrications, and distorting what a philosopher believed.
 
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Agonaces of Susa

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many philosophers did not accept another philosophers claims
And so too with scientists.

For example, many scientists do not accept Darwin's claims.

such as aristotle, who was around that time, he believed the brain was for cooling the blood and the heart was the source of emotion and thought
Aristotle was wrong about a great many things. Who isn't except Jesus?

For example, Aristotle tended towards uniformitarianism.

Still, Aristotle was right about most things.

The First Cause of motion in the universe for example.

so, you are just plain making up fabrications, and distorting what a philosopher believed.
What are you talking about?

So you claim to know more about the life of Pythagoras than Diogenes Laertius?
 
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Agonaces of Susa

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True, Jesus was only wrong about a couple of things -- but then again, we don't have his complete writings.
What do you claim Jesus was wrong about?

Loving your neighbor?

"Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater..." -- Mark 12:31

"Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law." -- Romans 13:10

"For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." -- Galatians 5:14
 
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ReverendDG

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And so too with scientists.

For example, many scientists do not accept Darwin's claims.
yes and your claim is that one guy out of hundreds proves that they knew about the brain, here i am showing you that there's another guy who disagrees, in fact the majority of people during that time disagree with your one guy.

Aristotle was wrong about a great many things. Who isn't except Jesus?
who cares if he was wrong? this is nothing but a red herring.

For example, Aristotle tended towards uniformitarianism.
irrelevant

Still, Aristotle was right about most things.
yes and he disproves your claims, about the brain.

The First Cause of motion in the universe for example.
who cares?

What are you talking about?
well its good to know one thing, you are totally ignorant of what pythagoras was doing in egypt, so basically you just found a website that spews this argument about pythagoras and believe it.

So you claim to know more about the life of Pythagoras than Diogenes Laertius?
i read what diogenes laertus wrote about pythagoras and what people thought of the pythagoreans
plus the fact is most of what was written about him is either lies or fabrications, most historians question most of the stuff attributed to pythagoras or the pythagoreans, being that there is evidence of fabrication.

oh and you fail at providing me evidence the eyptians or the babylonians believed the brain was the source of emotion or thought, since you have no clue what Herodotos was saying about the pythagoreans, i can reject all your quotes since they aren't related to each other.

in case you forgot Herodotos believed them to be a cult and pythagoras went to egypt to be taught the priests philosophy about the world, including embalming
your claims ring false even so since the quote from herodotos is about embalming!
The idea that Pythagoras wrote such a Sacred Discourse seems to arise from a misreading of the early evidence. Herodotus says that the Pythagoreans agreed with the Egyptians in not allowing the dead to be buried in wool and then asserts that there is a sacred discourse about this (II. 81). Herodotus' focus here is the Egyptians and not the Pythagoreans, who are introduced as a Greek parallel, so that the Sacred Discourse to which he refers is Egyptian and not Pythagorean, as similar passages elsewhere in Book II of Herodotus show (e.g., II. 62; see Burkert 1972a, 219).
from Pythagoras (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy) (i don't have any qualms about quoting my sources)
your willingness to quote-mine makes all the other things you say even less believable
your quote from diogenes laertius is questionable at best when we have no writings from pythagoras, so how suspect is the quote you give?

could you perhaps show some evidence for your claims and not more "nuh-uh" posts that add nothing to the discussion? or should we just go with the conclusion that you base your arguments on bias and hot air?
since it seems effort to produce evidence is beyond you other than bluster of course.
 
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Agonaces of Susa

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yes and he disproves your claims, about the brain.
Where does Aristotle say that Pythagoras didn't think reason and deliberation reside in the brain?

In what book and in what chapter?

who cares?
Jesus cares...:wave:

well its good to know one thing, you are totally ignorant of what pythagoras was doing in egypt, so basically you just found a website that spews this argument about pythagoras and believe it.
What do you claim Pythagoras was doing in Egypt?

Thinking with his heart?

i read what diogenes laertus wrote about pythagoras and what people thought of the pythagoreans
plus the fact is most of what was written about him is either lies or fabrications, most historians question most of the stuff attributed to pythagoras or the pythagoreans, being that there is evidence of fabrication.
In other words you have no historical evidence that contradicts Diogenes Laertius.

What evidence do you have that Pythagoras is a myth?
 
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ReverendDG

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Where does Aristotle say that Pythagoras didn't think reason and deliberation reside in the brain?

In what book and in what chapter?
where did i say that? oh yeah i didn't i was refuting yourclaims, did you hit your head a lot so that you can't remember your own claims from yesterday?
aristotle disproves that AME peoples understood what the brain was for being that they didn't agree on it, your example was pythagoras, i point out he and the pythagoreans believed one thing and aristotle did not, thus you can't state that AME people understood the brain since none of them has a clue what the brain really did, they believed things, wild things, but they couldn't support them.
also 99% of the pop did not believe what either believed so, you are just wrong on all counts!

Jesus cares...:wave:
like i said, who cares?

What do you claim Pythagoras was doing in Egypt?

Thinking with his heart?
how about reading what i quoted from stanford? oh and go read up what heredotos said? i said it 3 times now he was learning the egyptians philosophy, including embalming.

In other words you have no historical evidence that contradicts Diogenes Laertius.
in other words you are blind and can't read words what words are you talking about? that quote you posted is a gross quote-mine that doesn't support your claims.
And that the chief abode of the soul is in those parts of the body which are between the heart and the brain. And that that portion of it which is in the heart is the mind (thymos); but that deliberation (nous), and reason (phren), reside in the brain
- diogenes laertius, life of pythagoras.
there is no way in the world that you could get "understands what the brain is or does" from that text, you are stretching all credibility by doing so, he was right only by the brain being so big and they perfectly understood what brain-damage is. like i said they were ignorant about the brain, ignorance doesn't mean they are totally oblivious to it!
i mean a child could figure out that if you get hit in the head you lose the ability to reason, you mind get smacked in the head hard enough to damage it and people found you will lose reason. wouldn't you if you got hit in the head?
that still doesn't mean what you claimed.
oh yes i will bring this up if you don't get it through your thick skull: And that that portion of it which is in the heart is the mind (thymos);
he still thought the heart was the mind!, he believed reason resides somewhere else, so he believed exactly as people have always believed.




What evidence do you have that Pythagoras is a myth?
if this is what you conclude then you are blind.

i said that the works attributed to him are disputed if not flat out accepted to be fabricated

i've never seen anyone so blatantly dishonest in my life, i never said he was a myth, stop lying. can't you read, there is nothing written by him and anything claimed to be is disputed by historians and misapplied to pythagoras when it was someone else!

 
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Gracchus

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Whenever I see increased text size my interest automatically shuts off completely because I know there is no logical or rational content there.
And whenever I see a post by Agonaces of Susa, I read it, because I am interested in abnormal psychology.

:wave:
 
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Nathan Poe

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What do you claim Jesus was wrong about?

Loving your neighbor?

"Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater..." -- Mark 12:31

"Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law." -- Romans 13:10

"For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." -- Galatians 5:14

Nope, Jesus was spot on when it came to love -- but good luck finding a follower who puts it into practice.

I was more referring to Jesus' quoting of Scripture -- granted, he only makes one mistake that I know of, and admittedly it is a minor one, but one would think God would have a perfect record in His own alleged writings.
 
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ReverendDG

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Whenever I see increased text size my interest automatically shuts off completely because I know there is no logical or rational content there.
ah yes, so you can't refute what i say, so you respond with a whine about text size and run away with your tail between your legs.

if it is so hard on you to read a 5 point text i can shrink it down just fine, i thought maybe if i made it bigger you might be able to read it since apparently you can't read this small text.

i mean really? "it must not have anything rational because its bigger text"?

what a joke.

here just for you, i'll edit down the text, would that make you answer it then or are you going to just post irrelevant nonsense instead of backing up your claims?
 
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pgp_protector

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Shoot, had a hard time finding my Non AV Zombie thread image :D
[move]
zombie-302.gif
[/move]
threadnecromancyns1nf0.jpg
 
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AV1611VET

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Shoot, had a hard time finding my Non AV Zombie thread image :D
Why don't you worry about your own netiquette problems? or does your 'Great Commission' come from Miss Manners?
 
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juvenissun

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juvenissun

... and God saw that it was good.
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Shoot, had a hard time finding my Non AV Zombie thread image :D

I am glad that someone dig it out. Most of my thread stopped because nobody can give an answer. He dig out my another one which asked why should the sun be made before the earth? Which has no answer given either.

I believe my questions will be stay unanswered for quite a while.
 
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granpa

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I guess it was too much trouble for you to read the article I gave a link to.
Contractile vacuole - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The CV has several structures attached to it in most cells, such as membrane folds, tubules, water tracts and small vesicles. These structures are commonly known as the spongiome; the CV together with the spongiome is sometimes called the contractile vacuole complex (CVC). The spongiome serves several functions in water transport into the CV and in localization and docking of the CV within the cell.

Paramecium (50 to 350 μm) and Amoeba possess large CVs (average diameter of 13 and 45 µm, respectively), which are relatively comfortable to isolate, manipulate and assay. The smallest known CVs belong to Chlamydomonas, with a diameter of 1.5 µm. In Paramecium, which presumably has the most complex and highly evolved CV, the vacuole is surrounded by several canals, which absorb water by osmosis from the cytoplasm. After the canals fill with water, the water is pumped into the vacuole. When the vacuole is full, it expels the water through a pore in the cytoplasm which can be opened and closed
 
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