The Fireproof concept

[DZoolander]

In school - I once wrote a book report based upon reading nothing but the back cover and pure conjecture on what it must have been about.

Got an A on it, too. lol

 

[Hetta]

I saw Fireproof, and I stand by my opinion of it.

 

[RobertMerton]

Hold on...

so basically HE wanted to do all these activities with you,
and when when you wanted to you were like ugh no..

so you're thinking that HE should try and mend your relationship by doing this 40 day fireproof concept when the problem seems to be you?

 

[Hetta]

Hold on...

so basically HE wanted to do all these activities with you,
and when when you wanted to you were like ugh no..

so you're thinking that HE should try and mend your relationship by doing this 40 day fireproof concept when the problem seems to be you?

Who are you talking to?

 

[RobertMerton]

Who are you talking to?

OP but it was kind of in jest.

I'm assuming that the OP is the one wanting to do this 40 day thing..
Or you could you know.. do some of the activities that your husband wants too doo.

 

[akmom]

I saw Fireproof, and I stand by my opinion of it.

I can tell. But most of the thread is irrelevant comments. It seems like a Christian marriage forum would be a great place to discuss a movie like Fireproof, and like the OP, I would have enjoyed a thoughtful conversation about it. What was realistic and what wasn't? Where did things truly go wrong, and what specifically did the Love Dare accomplish?

Instead, she got responses like "No." Or "I don't like Christian movies." And "I'm assuming this is what happened in the movie, and here's what I think of it." Lol.

 

[mkgal1]

There was more contributed than that. I posted that my complaint about the Love Dare (because that was the main topic---not the movie) is the way it presents as a formula of "do this = positive results". That's far too simplistic (and insulting, honestly). IMO.....it's also bordering on (if not actually there) manipulation.

IMO.....when there's a unresolved conflict (if some pat answer is to be formed)...I'd say it takes one spouse saying to the other something like, "I really don't want this issue to divide us.....I love you and I really want to work on resolving things......are you with me on that?"

 

[mkgal1]

Also........but I have to disagree about the value of the comments. I thought there were helpful comments about marriage in general.

 

[mkgal1]

We're a new marriage so we're probably just in the "adjustment" period but we've had some minor arguments about stuff the last few days. Stuff like I guess he went along with like a bunch of activities I wanted to do but then he asked me to do something and I was tired and I have a cold so I was like "ugh not now" and he felt put off and blah blah blah..

I did have a comment on this part of your OP, BGS.

Personally, I'm not of the belief that marriage ought to be about "you sacrifice for me....then I'll sacrifice for you" (not in the way it usually plays out, anyway.....like you're describing here). To me...that's more like, "I'll torture you for a while, doing something you don't want to do....with the knowledge that, at a later time, you'll pay me back by torturing me for a while, doing something I don't want to do."

Instead......I (and my husband) believe in the ability to completely speak up on what we'd like to do (or NOT do). That way there is never any resentment (or horror later, finding out they HATED that whole day spent--when you have it filed in your mind as "one of the greatest days we spent together").

Like you said, though.....that's all part of the adjustment.

 

[DZoolander]

Well, to be honest, the more Christians like a film, the more you can relatively predict what happened in it.

Given how many seem to think it's exemplary, it appears the only thing that might have made it perfect is if the main character spent the final moments of the movie flogging himself in contrition for the sin of premarital sex. lol

 

[akmom]

I guess it's kind of like losing weight. Every one knows vaguely what to do, but those using a structured plan have greater success.

I like the philosophy behind it. My husband and I went into marriage with that belief. We both saw our parents' marriages as a battle of selfishness, and thought how it could have worked out if just one of them bothered to stop and consider the other. Instead, they had the dynamics of two people always demanding from each other, only getting what they wanted when they manipulated circumstances, and only giving when they were backed into a corner. So our premarital discussions were about what we had to offer and much less about what we expected, and that's what I think the Love Care is attempting to do. If my parents were to change, they'd definitely need something structured like that, because they're too ingrained in their ways and expectations to behave differently!

 

[Inkachu]

I can tell. But most of the thread is irrelevant comments. It seems like a Christian marriage forum would be a great place to discuss a movie like Fireproof, and like the OP, I would have enjoyed a thoughtful conversation about it. What was realistic and what wasn't? Where did things truly go wrong, and what specifically did the Love Dare accomplish?

Instead, she got responses like "No." Or "I don't like Christian movies." And "I'm assuming this is what happened in the movie, and here's what I think of it." Lol.

The OP specifically asked if any married couples had used "the Fireproof method" and what they thought of it. I haven't seen the movie but I know what it's about. I know what the Love Dare is. I don't need to watch the movie to know I don't want to see the movie. The OP didn't specify that ONLY people who 1) had seen the movie and 2) had used the "Fireproof method" aka the Love Dare and 3) had opinions on the movie and/or the Love Dare to share.... could respond.

 

[mkgal1]

My husband and I went into marriage with that belief. We both saw our parents' marriages as a battle of selfishness, and thought how it could have worked out if just one of them bothered to stop and consider the other. Instead, they had the dynamics of two people always demanding from each other, only getting what they wanted when they manipulated circumstances, and only giving when they were backed into a corner. So our premarital discussions were about what we had to offer and much less about what we expected, and that's what I think the Love Care is attempting to do. If my parents were to change, they'd definitely need something structured like that, because they're too ingrained in their ways and expectations to behave differently!

There's a ginormous difference between one person vowing not to be selfish....and BOTH spouses being committed to not being selfish and to always consider their spouse (what you and your husband have done).

That's really the bulk of the argument. It seems like a simple solution (to have BOTH committed to love and honor the other)....but that's often what's missing when there are many marital issues. That's why I posted earlier that there is no substitute for that mutual commitment. One person can't change things when that is not the dynamic (and that's what most of these books and ideas are about---the one that's not the problem to be the one to fix it).

 

[akmom]

I specifically disagree with that. When people blame the other spouse's non-participation in mending the marriage, I think that they are usually being disingenuous about their own efforts. Or impatient with the results. Isn't that the idea behind unconditional love? That you aren't basing your efforts off the other person's reciprocation? If you throw in the towel because it "didn't work," you aren't exactly doing it right. Just because the Love Dare is a 40-day program doesn't mean it's supposed to work in as many days. It's just a template. I thought the movie portrayed that well.

My husband's philosophy about marriage is part of why I chose him. And probably while we're happy. But I'm in it for the long haul, with or without that mutual commitment. And I think that one person with that attitude IS enough. Notice in the movie, the wife finally fell back in love with him, but you don't see her ever reciprocating! The most she does is become thankful and appreciative. He never gets his boat.

 

[mkgal1]

I specifically disagree with that. When people blame the other spouse's non-participation in mending the marriage, I think that they are usually being disingenuous about their own efforts.

There is a very subtle difference between what I posted and what you're inferring, though.

You're saying both that you specifically disagree....but also that's what you and your husband have done---and it's "worked" for you two. I think it not only "works".....but is the "key" to WHY things work.

I'm not meaning (or implying) that one spouse is blaming the other. The thing is....I don't believe it would ever even get to that point (probably as you've noticed, as you said you're living what I'm advocating) if the genuine goal is to protect the marital connection above everything (including one's own interests).

Or impatient with the results. Isn't that the idea behind unconditional love? That you aren't basing your efforts off the other person's reciprocation?

For one thing.....I don't believe marriage (or our relationship with *anyone*---even God's relationship with us) is "unconditional".

But.......with that aside.....that's why I re-quoted Hetta's post and said that's important to keep in mind. Otherwise, it's really easy to get twisted with this common line of reasoning.

When BOTH spouses are genuinely committed to honor, love, and respect....that's not a matter of "I will, if you will". IOW....there is no fear in that love. It's mutual commitment & love.

My husband's philosophy about marriage is part of why I chose him. And probably while we're happy. But I'm in it for the long haul, with or without that mutual commitment. And I think that one person with that attitude IS enough. Notice in the movie, the wife finally fell back in love with him, but you don't see her ever reciprocating! The most she does is become thankful and appreciative. He never gets his boat.

Those sorts of things are easy to say when you aren't "walking that walk".

And....yes....I *did* notice that in the movie. Have you looked up in the marriage restoration threads or followed a friend through a difficult time in their marriage (when they were doing everything w/i their power--and God's--to restore things)?

It's not that easy in real life.

 

[akmom]

I have friends who divorced (already), and I think they ditched their marriages too soon. If you don't have loyalty, then what do you have? All you have is a relationship that is here today, maybe gone tomorrow. You might as well perpetually date. When you marry, you become family. It isn't about whether the relationship is working out. It's about your commitment to them as family, and your obligation to love them regardless of how your lives are playing out. People think they have these emotional needs, and they forget that what they actually have are responsibilities, and they pursue these so-called needs at the expense of loyalty. None of my divorced friends have improved their situation in the long run. All of them are worse off. What they do have to show for it is a divided home for their children.

 

[DZoolander]

Okay, so I sat down and watched Fireproof tonight just so I couldn't have it lobbed in my court that I haven't watched it (fair enough...lol). Before giving my reaction - I do have to say that actually watching it didn't really add anything to what I thought it was about. Selfish people learn that being selfless works to bring them back together.

I mean - that really is the crux of it.

...and the problem that I have with it is the same problem I had with it before...which is that it takes a pretty unrealistic view of how things actually play out.

What I mean by that - and let me give an example - would be...let's think about that CMarie girl that was posting in here a while ago about how her husband was un-repentant about watching porn, saying that she was toxic, etc.

Most of the time - people think about someone like her husband doing the love dare, doing the fireproof method, etc (if that actually is a thing). But I'd propose to you that the husband in that situation is never the one contemplating or worrying about something like the love dare or the "fireproof method". Rather - it's CMarie thinking about it.

...and what do you think the results would be if she embarked on that 40 day quest?

That's how it normally works out in real life - IMHO.

 

[DZoolander]

I have friends who divorced (already), and I think they ditched their marriages too soon. If you don't have loyalty, then what do you have? All you have is a relationship that is here today, maybe gone tomorrow. You might as well perpetually date. When you marry, you become family. It isn't about whether the relationship is working out. It's about your commitment to them as family, and your obligation to love them regardless of how your lives are playing out. People think they have these emotional needs, and they forget that what they actually have are responsibilities, and they pursue these so-called needs at the expense of loyalty. None of my divorced friends have improved their situation in the long run. All of them are worse off. What they do have to show for it is a divided home for their children.

I dunno.

On the one hand - I do believe that perhaps there are those that ditched their marriages and divorced too quickly. However, I know a few people that have been divorced (myself included) - and there's only one of those that I might be inclined to think about that way.

The rest of them, subjectively speaking, had true just cause for leaving IMHO...(and I like to think that I'm a fair person). They didn't divorce over trivial things like one of them was hoarding away cash to buy a boat - etc. Rather - one person had already completely checked out of the marriage - and finally the other one (the one who actually petitioned for the divorce) accepted it and moved on.

As for ending up better or worse off after - I can really only speak for myself. I think that my choice to divorce was one of the best and most sound decisions I've ever made in my life - and 16 years later - I'm still thankful that I made that decision. Heck - if I could go back in time and just erase the entire relationship but still end up where I am now - I would do it in a heartbeat.

Did both of us end up in a better place? Ehhh - don't know how I could answer that without bringing my own values into it with respect to her. So, I think my answer would be tainted.

Briefly put - my ex-wife got into all sorts of deviant/fetishist behaviors (BDSM specifically). Before I kicked her out - she was inviting all sorts of pre-op trannies over to our house while I was trying to support the household/working/etc...having them hit on me...trying to engage in 3-somes...was going out to bondage parties...said that's what she wanted to do with her life...etc.

Finally - I had enough of it and kicked her out/filed for divorce.

16 years later - as to what I know about her - she's had a couple more marriages - and she's still heavily involved in that scene. She got what she wanted.

That's why I answered the question with the caveat of "without bringing my own values into it". In my mind - she's not better off based upon my values and how I think life should go. Personally, I think it's a sad state of affairs. But - that's the direction she said she wanted to go in - so I'd assume she's happy that it came to fruition.

As for me - I'm not dealing with that nonsense - I have a lovely and loving real wife - one beautiful child and another on the way - etc. All of that was made possible by saying "this isn't what I signed up for or what you agreed to." So, IMHO, I'm far better off for having made that choice.

 

[akmom]

Selfish people learn that being selfless works to bring them back together.

That is pretty much the bottom line in all marital failures, isn't it? One or more of them are selfish? The point is, how do you break out of that mindset? The husband in Fireproof certainly didn't know how. The Love Dare gave him a set of actions to practice that propelled him into a role where he could actually understand what it meant to be a good husband. I don't think that's unrealistic at all. I've seen lots of people who truly were not cognizant of their own selfishness.

Would a guy like that ever seek out something like the Love Dare? Maybe not. He seemed pretty resigned to the divorce. Maybe something that doesn't get a lot of attention is the role of mentors/elders in counseling younger couples to take those steps. I think the point is that he should, and that it would help his marriage, not whether he would.

But honestly, when I watched the movie, I didn't think of him primarily as the at-fault spouse. Sure, the pornography was tasteless behavior. And maybe he could have checked in more when he was late from work, knowing he had a whiny little wife that couldn't handle it. But I can't say that a young, employed man saving up for a boat is unreasonably selfish. Or expecting his wife to buy enough bagels for both of them, since they both, you know, live there. I think it was more her being selfish and immature and checking out of the marriage, and he reigned her back in.

 

[DZoolander]

I agree on a lot of levels.

I guess the thing that also rubs me a little bit about the movie is that (at least in my opinion) their marriage was pretty simple to fix. Your assessment is right - that most martial problems do (to a large extent) boil down to one or both being selfish. With my ex wife - you could boil it down to the selfish desire to continue pursuing a fetish despite my feelings about it. Pretty much all problems can be boiled down to that kind of paradigm - sure.

In the whole scope of things, though, I'd say that their selfishness was pretty "shallow" though - and pretty easily overcome.

I've never known, though, someone that divorced for something that trivial. I knew one couple, admittedly, that was CLOSE to being that trivial...but there were elements that were worse than that (eventual infidelity, etc).

But - then I think about the other ones I know...

One had a hubby that was an alcoholic that would routinely drive the children to school drunk - and saw no problems with that. Years of alcoholism pretty much wrecked the guy's mind to the point where he was screaming at her that he wasn't the children's father, demanded paternity tests, accused her of conspiring with the lab when the results came back that he was the father, etc. Eventually he just made it such a hellhole of a life that she checked out.

...and I can't blame her. Twenty years later, he's still an alcoholic, albeit a crazy born again one ranting and raving about Israel and the End of Days.

My dad divorced his first wife - she had latent schizophrenic tendencies that manifested after she first got pregnant...and she was institutionalized after assaulting him and trying to poison their daughter. After 10 years of waiting for her to get better, he finally gave up the ghost and moved on. She never did get better.

Then there's mine...lol

Soooo...