The Fireproof concept

[Inkachu]

Lol ok...

Well what about the concept.
Just pretend there's not a movie,
and thre's still a book.
If you were fighting with your spouse alot, it would give you
an activity a day that's supposed to strengthen, reconcile and help you
rekindle your love and hapiness.

Like I said, it was stuff like "you can't say anything mean today".
"You have to do something nice for the sake of being nice"
"give her a gift"
Some of it is ongoing, like not saying your angry thoughts in the form of hurtful words, and some is just for that day, like the gift.

Would 40 days of workbook exercises appeal to you if you wanted to resolve an ongoing conflict?

Not trying to be obtuse, but those are things I would hope people would know about being married anyway. That you don't say mean things, you pray for your spouse, you show them you care, etc. If you have to have a book telling you to do that... well... that's all I have to say about that.

Workbooks of any kind don't appeal to me, I find them insulting to my intelligence. Maybe that's a flaw on my part, but that's how I see it!

 

[Inkachu]

Well, if the message of Fireproof is "If you want to try and save your marriage, maybe fight the urge to be a jerk to them and do something nice every day instead" - then yeah.

Seems like common sense to me

Yeah, this lol.

Well, yeah but I'm saying imagine that you've been not getting along for some time or arguing alot and it's escalated to where you're taking verbal stabs because you're in a destructive downspiral.... you've gotta start somewhere.

I dunno, I think the basics of human interaction, respect, civility, and love are pretty obvious to me. If I'm acting like a "witch with a b", I don't need a book to tell me that. I need to straighten up my act.

 

[ValleyGal]

Originally Posted by bluegreysky

Well, yeah but I'm saying imagine that you've been not getting along for some time or arguing alot and it's escalated to where you're taking verbal stabs because you're in a destructive downspiral.... you've gotta start somewhere.
​

I dunno, I think the basics of human interaction, respect, civility, and love are pretty obvious to me. If I'm acting like a "witch with a b", I don't need a book to tell me that. I need to straighten up my act.

Inka, when things are spiralling down, typically people do not recognize their own destructive behaviours, but rather blame or justify / rationalize their own behaviour. So often, this approach does not work - unless the person is introspective and humble enough to initiate reconciliation based on their introspection.

BGS, when things are in a downward spiral, yes, it has to start somewhere, but starting with something like a compliment or gift or a day without insults....that's glossing over the real issue about where the spiral started. Imo, finding out the starting point and dealing with that is likely going to be more helpful. Granted, it is more helpful to start there with a soft heart, and it might take some gifts, kind words or insult-free days to return to a soft heart. Getting back to the issue itself with a soft heart is the goal, and certainly it has to start with one spouse or the other.

I am a believer in the idea that you can "fake it till you make it" concept - for personal issues at least, but when it involves a spouse, faking it can seem inauthentic. Coming from the Love Dare, it can seem formulated and inauthentic, so imo, it would need to be simultaneous with a change of heart.

 

[Hetta]

The problem I have with the Fireproof concept, as I understand it, is that it seems to presuppose that people ended up in crappy positions in their marriages accidentally. Kind of like, "I've been living my life and ended up in spot X, you've been living your life and ended up in spot Y, now the only issue is how to bring us back together."

...but that's not at all what most of the divorces I've actually SEEN were.

Rather, in all the broken marriages I've seen, it's as a consequence of one of the spouses consciously deciding to abandon the marital vows and cease acting with consideration of the other spouse.

...and unfortunately....I'd argue that most of the time the person willing to take the steps in Fireproof isn't the one that was doing the alienating to begin with...but rather the one being alienated.

The thing about that movie is that in a lot of ways - it was his actions that were causing the distance and his wife was simply reacting. His job was to "re-win" her and basically atone for his crappy behavior.

Most of the time, the people I hear talking about Fireproof aren't the ones doing the alienating - but rather the ones being alienated...and the advice in Fireproof takes a far different spin in that context. It's far different to be the one driving someone away and then changing your mind/realizing what you've done/apologizing for it....and being the one being driven away trying to chase them down (which is essentially what you'd be doing).

Ya know?

Yes. Yes absolutely.

For the one doing wrong to actually realize and start taking steps to improve things is very rare from what I have seen. If they had that much self-realization, they wouldn't have been a jerk in the first place, kwim?

 

[Inkachu]

Inka, when things are spiralling down, typically people do not recognize their own destructive behaviours, but rather blame or justify / rationalize their own behaviour. So often, this approach does not work - unless the person is introspective and humble enough to initiate reconciliation based on their introspection.

I can understand being temporarily "blinded" by emotion, and lashing out thinking that we're justified because we're hurt and angry and our spouse did such-and-such, but at the end of the day, if I was a mean-spirited wench, I know I was, and it'll bother my conscience.

I think it's probably something that varies greatly by individual and their personality and relationship/coping/communication skills. I'm very sensitive, I hate fights, I hate bad vibes, I can't function if I know someone is upset with me. So I tend to have a very long fuse, I'm pretty laid back, and I like to resolve things quickly and not hold grudges. If I'm being harsh or mean, I know I am, even if I feel justified in the moment, I'll feel awful afterwards.

 

[Hetta]

I can understand being temporarily "blinded" by emotion, and lashing out thinking that we're justified because we're hurt and angry and our spouse did such-and-such, but at the end of the day, if I was a mean-spirited wench, I know I was, and it'll bother my conscience.

I think it's probably something that varies greatly by individual and their personality and relationship/coping/communication skills. I'm very sensitive, I hate fights, I hate bad vibes, I can't function if I know someone is upset with me. So I tend to have a very long fuse, I'm pretty laid back, and I like to resolve things quickly and not hold grudges. If I'm being harsh or mean, I know I am, even if I feel justified in the moment, I'll feel awful afterwards.

But not everyone has that kind of conscience Inka. Some people are mean, know they are being mean, but put the blame on the other person and tell themselves that the other person has to change - perhaps telling them that they should stop being so sensitive or that the first person (the one being mean) has every right to be "angry" (or whatever they want to call it) - because the other person did x or y. That's generally a situation which, where I see it or hear about it, I'm usually fairly convinced that the mean person doesn't really care that their marriage is careering into oblivion. Either they have given up on their marriage or they want the other to give up on the marriage (and then they can say that they were abandoned/they don't understand/they just woke up one day and the other person was gone), or they just enjoy 'punishing' that person ... it's not going to improve unless/until the initiator has a complete change of heart. No daily acts from the person who is on the receiving end of this is likely to change the one who has gone cold on the marriage.

 

[actionsub]

I watched most of the movie at home, but I don't really care for formula type answers like the journal. There is no substitute (IMO) for two willing and motivated spouses that love and respect one another. The idea that there's this easy way to "turn around" a wayward spouse (I believe the wife in the movie was having an affair and had one foot out the door) and everyone lives "happily ever after" doesn't seem too far removed from Disney's typical story lines.

I guess I've become cynical over the years.

The whole "formula" approach (do this 40 day thing and save your marriage) is a joke. While going through my divorce, that's when the Fireproof movie came out. The Family bookstore where I worked sold ALL the tie-in merchandise along with the book and pre-orders of the DVD. When my ex came in to try to talk to me (usually requests for money), they'd try to push it on her. If anything, I think it hardened her even further.

 

[Hetta]

The whole "formula" approach (do this 40 day thing and save your marriage) is a joke. While going through my divorce, that's when the Fireproof movie came out. The Family bookstore where I worked sold ALL the tie-in merchandise along with the book and pre-orders of the DVD. When my ex came in to try to talk to me (usually requests for money), they'd try to push it on her. If anything, I think it hardened her even further.

The people where you worked were trying to get her to undertake this process ON you? Deliberately?

 

[actionsub]

The people where you worked were trying to get her to undertake this process ON you? Deliberately?

Nah, their motives were more simple. It was more like if she saw the movie, maybe she'd stop pursuing the divorce. My ex at the time was going through this attitude of "nobody's going to tell ME what to do!" (unless it was her folks encouraging her to deep-six me).

 

[Inkachu]

But not everyone has that kind of conscience Inka. Some people are mean, know they are being mean, but put the blame on the other person and tell themselves that the other person has to change - perhaps telling them that they should stop being so sensitive or that the first person (the one being mean) has every right to be "angry" (or whatever they want to call it) - because the other person did x or y. That's generally a situation which, where I see it or hear about it, I'm usually fairly convinced that the mean person doesn't really care that their marriage is careering into oblivion. Either they have given up on their marriage or they want the other to give up on the marriage (and then they can say that they were abandoned/they don't understand/they just woke up one day and the other person was gone), or they just enjoy 'punishing' that person ... it's not going to improve unless/until the initiator has a complete change of heart. No daily acts from the person who is on the receiving end of this is likely to change the one who has gone cold on the marriage.

I know, sweetie That's why I said that it can vary a huge amount from one individual/personality to another. I was only describing myself and my own personality. So while I can sort of conceive in my head of someone just being a total jerk and having a heart of stone and not feeling any remorse for being horrible... I can't RELATE at all.

 

[mkgal1]

Yes. Yes absolutely.

For the one doing wrong to actually realize and start taking steps to improve things is very rare from what I have seen. If they had that much self-realization, they wouldn't have been a jerk in the first place, kwim?

Truth right up there ^ .

 

[Hetta]

Nah, their motives were more simple. It was more like if she saw the movie, maybe she'd stop pursuing the divorce. My ex at the time was going through this attitude of "nobody's going to tell ME what to do!" (unless it was her folks encouraging her to deep-six me).

Well that's what I meant - that they were referring her to the whole thing deliberately. I think that very intrusive and rude and guaranteed to ruffle feathers and make a stubborn person even more determined to behave in a negative fashion. Perhaps if they had tried to befriend her, it might have worked better. Oh well ..

 

[mkgal1]

The whole "formula" approach (do this 40 day thing and save your marriage) is a joke. While going through my divorce, that's when the Fireproof movie came out. The Family bookstore where I worked sold ALL the tie-in merchandise along with the book and pre-orders of the DVD. When my ex came in to try to talk to me (usually requests for money), they'd try to push it on her. If anything, I think it hardened her even further.

I agree. I'm sorry for what you went through, BTW.....but I *do* believe these sorts of gimmicks (probably the best way to describe them) are just a way to make $$ (see? I *am* cynical).

It minimizes (or seems to, anyway) the real and complex issues that people are faced with. I think it's HannahT that often uses the term "Christian pixie dust". It's just too much like fairy tales.

Something that pushes my buttons is when there's been a long standing disagreement between me and another person (it doesn't even have to be my hubby), and that issue gets shoved under the rug and the person decides to "fix it" by giving me a gift. The issue is still there---the gift doesn't "fix it". If a gift is used as a sort of "peace offering" in order to change the tone of the discussion....that's one thing.....but to expect the gift (or acts of benevolence) to make the issues go away? No......that only makes it worse for me. I find that insulting, and that seems to be the premise of the workbook.

 

[puregrl]

I really loved the movie. Currently doing a small group bible stud with the fireproof material. The Love Dare, which was used in the movie is totally separate curriculum. But the Love Dare is good. It does require for a person to be open to saving the marriage and have a heart that wants to mend it. The concept behind it is good and suggests doing things many marriage counselors would suggest doing. That being said in a previous marriage, my ex tried to do it before we split. However he was being abusive while doing the dares, so obviously it didnt work. But my current husband and I are doing the Fireproof study right now and love it.

 

[Inkachu]

Something that pushes my buttons is when there's been a long standing disagreement between me and another person (it doesn't even have to be my hubby), and that issue gets shoved under the rug and the person decides to "fix it" by giving me a gift. The issue is still there---the gift doesn't "fix it". If a gift is used as a sort of "peace offering" in order to change the tone of the discussion....that's one thing.....but to expect the gift (or acts of benevolence) to make the issues go away? No......that only makes it worse for me. I find that insulting, and that seems to be the premise of the workbook.

OH, I would hate that. It IS insulting, because it's saying "I can purchase your forgiveness and completely ignore your hurt feelings". Oh NO.

 

[mkgal1]

OH, I would hate that. It IS insulting, because it's saying "I can purchase your forgiveness and completely ignore your hurt feelings". Oh NO.

Exactly!

I think the *only* issue it resolves is any guilt the person may be feeling. Then they skip off with the belief that they *are* a "nice person" after all ("See? I got her a gift. I'm not so bad. She just doesn't appreciate the things I do. Nothing is *ever* good enough for her").

 

[DZoolander]

I'm always sorta befuddled by stuff like this... Essentially, the idea behind these things can be boiled down to...

"If you want to save your marriage, stop being a jerk to them and be nice consistently."

I mean - really - that's the core of it. Why do they put the number of days in there? To achieve consistency. No more, no less. As was pointed out before, there's no magic number for that kind of thing. They're simply trying to get you to stop being a jerk - and to make a habit of it.

Well - honestly - duh.

What amazes me is how desirous Christians are to lap up anything that someone throws the word "Christian" on to...like it somehow makes it inspired.

 

[Inkachu]

What amazes me is how desirous Christians are to lap up anything that someone throws the word "Christian" on to...like it somehow makes it inspired.

Heh. For realz.

 

[akmom]

It's less about "not being a jerk," and more about not taking a spouse for granted. Which is easy to do, without realizing it. But if you start taking things upon yourself that they normally do, you start to understand their struggles better, and maybe get a perspective that you can't glean from common sense, or that they can't adequately articulate for you. It's not "being a jerk" if you don't jump in and take on all your spouse's responsibilities or cater to their every desire. But if your marriage is rocky, it might be worth taking that extra step to really learn what's going on. And that's what the movie was about (for all those with strong opinions on a movie they admittedly haven't seen).