The fine tuning of the universe.

[Athée]

Because some do find God hearing and believing but others don't because they refuse to believe is genius , else all would scramble to God to flee the destruction and hell for the wrong reason .. God fixed it so you get what you want according to free will , not because your butt is on fire and forced to come to him grudgingly .. So God has solved the problem in his wisdom making each choice by will and completely individual .. Perfect plan ..

Cool story, as a former believer I get why it is incredibly emotional satisfying. There are a bunch of responses but since they would all be as off topic as your post I am going to refrain.
Peace

 

[bhsmte]

Not a thousand times in a row

Explain.

 

[4x4toy]

Cool story, as a former believer I get why it is incredibly emotional satisfying. There are a bunch of responses but since they would all be as off topic as your post I am going to refrain.
Peace

Ha , As a former Atheist who ridiculed God and Christians I get where you come from , now I've experienced the supernatural as the Word says I know what satisfaction is for sure .. The fine tuning of the universe makes perfect sense like every thing else now , right ? You'll be back ..

 

[Veera Chase]

Ha , As a former Atheist who ridiculed God and Christians I get where you come from,

If you ridiculed God and Christians you were not an atheist you were a fool.

 

[AirPo]

I think what Once has been trying to get us to agree to is that the science shows, and scientists agree that if the conditions of our universe were even a tiny bit different that life (and she conflates life as we know it with life generally and with intelligent life ) would not be possible.

I've agreed more than once, but that just boils down to if things were different they'd be different.

I think we are all jumping ahead, predicting where we think she is going to take the argument and jumping the gun.

No, she's actually said where she is going to take the argument.

On the question of fine tuning I find I agree with Sean Carroll that it is the best argument theists have from cosmology, there are phenomena (constants and values) and different models (theism, naturalism) and we try to see which model best fits the data. Sure I think fine tuning is an argument from ignorance and that it is more of a post hoc explanation than a predictive model but Once hasn't actually gotten that far in her argument yet except in bits and pieces while trying to respond to our anticipatory objections.

That's the problem. She's skipping all that and going straight for the conclusion. Hence the wishful thinking fallacy.

 

[4x4toy]

If you did ridiculed God and Christians you were not an atheist you were a fool.

Psalm 53:1 The fool says there's no God , I agree ..

 

[4x4toy]

Explain.

When a thing becomes so mathematically improbable it becomes impossible ..Kinda like Polonium halos in granite taking more time than instant creation ..

 

[AirPo]

When a thing becomes so mathematically improbable it becomes impossible ..Kinda like Polonium halos in granite taking more time than instant creation ..

Incorrect.

 

[4x4toy]

Incorrect.

It is what it is no matter , right ?

 

[Athée]

Ha , As a former Atheist who ridiculed God and Christians I get where you come from , now I've experienced the supernatural as the Word says I know what satisfaction is for sure .. The fine tuning of the universe makes perfect sense like every thing else now , right ? You'll be back ..

I read that last line in the voice of the terminator Honestly I try not to ridicule Christians because having been one I understand how powerful the indoctrination and social conformity can be. I was fortunate not to grow up in it so the indoctrination wasn't as strong for me but even without that it took me about 3 years of study before I was willing to admit to myself, despite the social and relational consequences of doing so, that I was an atheist.
Does the fine tuning make sense...nope, will I be back...it is possible I suppose, maybe there actually is a God and someday he will make this clear to me. If he turns out to be as described in the bible though I might not worship him anyway, all those pesky genocide's make it hard to like a fellow.

 

[bhsmte]

When a thing becomes so mathematically improbable it becomes impossible ..Kinda like Polonium halos in granite taking more time than instant creation ..

Problem is, we don't know how improbable on this one.

 

[Athée]

I've agreed more than once, but that just boils down to if things were different they'd be different.

No, she's actually said where she is going to take the argument.

That's the problem. She's skipping all that and going straight for the conclusion. Hence the wishful thinking fallacy.

I'm hoping that when she gest the time to hop back on that she will go through the steps with us so we can debate them...we shall see

 

[bhsmte]

I'm hoping that when she gest the time to hop back on that she will go through the steps with us so we can debate them...we shall see

Good luck with that.

 

[4x4toy]

I read that last line in the voice of the terminator Honestly I try not to ridicule Christians because having been one I understand how powerful the indoctrination and social conformity can be. I was fortunate not to grow up in it so the indoctrination wasn't as strong for me but even without that it took me about 3 years of study before I was willing to admit to myself, despite the social and relational consequences of doing so, that I was an atheist.
Does the fine tuning make sense...nope, will I be back...it is possible I suppose, maybe there actually is a God and someday he will make this clear to me. If he turns out to be as described in the bible though I might not worship him anyway, all those pesky genocide's make it hard to like a fellow.

Problem is, we don't know how improbable on this one.

You know the numbers ..

 

[Athée]

You know the numbers ..

Not sure how numbers relate to my post or why it was quoted here. And I am almost certain bhmste will tell you why we don't know the numbers. Can you guess?

 

[Veera Chase]

Psalm 53:1 The fool says there's no God , I agree ..

So you lied, you were not an atheist, lying for Jesus is still a sin. [that's if there was a Jesus of course]

 

[4x4toy]

So you lied, you were not an atheist, lying for Jesus is still a sin. [that's if there was a Jesus of course]

 

[bhsmte]

When a thing becomes so mathematically improbable it becomes impossible ..Kinda like Polonium halos in granite taking more time than instant creation ..

What is so mathematically improbable?

Show where you got the numbers and your math.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Yes, and Krauss and a few others but this doesn't have a shred of evidence and in fact, gravity is a law of physics which doesn't exist before the universe itself.

So, these particular scientists don't know what they are talking about, because they have opinions that you don't agree with?

That's certainly interesting.

Einstein had most likely a higher IQ some believe it was closer to 190 and he absolutely believed the universe needed a fine tuner or mind behind it. Now what?

No, he did not.
Einstein wasn't religious at all.
Not that it matters, though.

 

[DogmaHunter]

What then?

My rejection of your claims is entirely based on the contents of those specific claims. It has nothing to do with whatever else you believe about anything.

For the general posting population on this forum it is far more than usual. If someone with a PhD or Masters in one of the relative fields would like to show how the information I have provided is not accurate I welcome correction.

I just told you that a genious like Hawking doesn't agree with your fine tuning nonsense at all, and you simply dissmissed it.

Clearly you don't care about what scientists say, as long as they don't agree with your a priori beliefs. Otherwise, you wouldn't be so quick to simply reject Hawking's statements at face value.

Absolutely wrong. The fine tuning is real. I think you are confused with what they say about apparent design.

The papers you yourself posted, talking about "seemingly" and "apparant".
Not one paper says that there is a "tuner".

As so many people have tried to tell you.... the scientists you love to quote don't imply a tuner when they talk about fine tuning. But you do.

It wasn't due to a lack of evidence or evidence against God.

Says who? You?