The fine tuning of the universe.

[Oncedeceived]

Saying fine tuning is a real thing is like a child saying, 'Mommy mommy I was born on my birthday'.
If the child had not been born it would not have a birthday.
If conditions were not exactly like they are everything would not be exactly like it is.

Do fish say the world was designed for them? do birds say the world was designed for them?
No the only animals to do that are creationists.

This is really hard not to be snarky to, but I've sat on my hands until I could respond with reason rather than emotion. Perhaps something you might try...however, this is not just like that. I suggest that you do some fact finding and return and we might be able to discuss this issue.

 

[AV1611VET]

They love taking group pictures.

Nice group!

Tell the girl in the middle in the red that the peace sign are the two fingers pointed outward!

 

[Oncedeceived]

You're right, I still find it amazing that out of the billions of people in the world I was born to the two people who would love me the most, what are the odds on that happening?
If my aunt had not broken her leg my mother would not have been at the hospital to meet my father and I would never have been born, it's obvious to me that that there must be a fat controller sitting somewhere making sure these things happen in the right order, if anyone thinks I'm wrong please tell me how else it could all work?

This is just a warning but if you continue to mock and goad I will report you. I want this thread to be about the issue and not get locked just because someone is being immature. Please discontinue your behavior.

 

[AV1611VET]

This is just a warning but if you continue to mock and goad I will report you. I want this thread to be about the issue and not get locked just because someone is being immature. Please discontinue your behavior.

Consol is becoming unplugged.

 

[Oncedeceived]

And it's still not clear to me at all why you find that so surprising.

Obviously.

 

[Oncedeceived]

Perhaps if you held up your end of the conversation I would be able to help you more. One more time can you describe what you think 'fine tuning' is in your own words? You seem to have a different definition than scientists do. Very few see it as evidence for any gods.

I have. I used a definition that a scientist does. I have just been trying to establish the basis for the argument and as of yet have not been successful.

 

[Oncedeceived]

Back up there....
How and when was it demonstrated that other sets of "physics" are actually possible?

Having said that... we live in a universe which, unsurprisingly I would think, has a set of physics in which life is actually possible. Again, what is the problem?

I could see how it would require an explanation if it could be demonstrated that:
- existing life actually could NOT exist in this universe, yet does exist
or
- our current set of physics actually being impossible, yet existing anyway

But neither is the case... so I'm still left wondering what the problem here is ....



And that surprises you...why, exactly?

Why are you participating in this thread if you do not understand?

 

[Robert Palase]

This is really hard not to be snarky to, but I've sat on my hands until I could respond with reason rather than emotion. Perhaps something you might try...however, this is not just like that. I suggest that you do some fact finding and return and we might be able to discuss this issue.

I would rather not if you don't mind because it's you who has the flawed thinking not me, you enjoy.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The existence of Gods has never been in doubt, there are none, if anyone knows differently then please don't hesitate to tell us of the Gods that exist and where they are.
An answer like 'I have a pet dragon but you can't see it because it's invisible' will not cut it.

I agree with you on this. The people with the blinders are of course the theists.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Oh I fully believe you that your concept of God is 100% a "human invention".

As is yours.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Ironically, you are doing the same thing you are accusing creationists of doing.

Please show me how I am guilty of such a crime. It looks like you are just making stuff up, again.

 

[Oncedeceived]

Maybe more like 30 billion constants. The universe is a lot more complicated then people seem to realize. For example for two cells to communicate with each other requires at least 60 different chemical interactions. If one is missing then there will be some degree of breakdown between the cells. So you have two things you need to explain if you want to talk about evolution. Where the first cell came from and how cells developed the ability to be able to communicate with each other. One aspect of all of this is that at the most basic and fundamental (atomic) levels there had to have been a marriage take place. They call this Quantum entanglement. Just like we know at the other end a marriage took place between man and women, Adam and Eve.

I agree but I am only talking about specifics here. We wouldn't be able to cover all the elements that are required in so many things it would be completely overwhelming.

 

[Oncedeceived]

Please show me how I am guilty of such a crime. It looks like you are just making stuff up, again.

Read your posts and then turn it around and read it like someone was talking about evolution.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You have to look at all that is involved before the light gets to the eye. You start with the Sun, then the light is filtered by the atmosphere. Then you have your rocks that absorb, reflect or refract light. All of this takes place before the eye becomes a part of the equation. We know that "God made the firmament," long before eyes began to evolve. Even we know from Science that you can not even have plants without a greenhouse effect in the firmament or the atmosphere around the earth.

Joshua, you don't "know" anything when it comes to God. This has been explained to you many times. All you have is belief. And this whole paragraph seems rather pointless.

According to Collins man is the purpose of the entire universe. God started in the beginning 14 billion years ago with the objective of the creation of man today. In High School Biology we had to trace food as the food went into the body and to the cells and was eliminated from the body. Today you can trace the elements that God used to make man back to the beginning of the universe. This is all one continuous process from beginning to end. God has been apart of the creation of man from the beginning of the universe. Even if you just want to look at the process from the perspective of the natural laws that we know were are work. God is the Law Giver. He created the laws that science likes to study.

BTW my Biology teacher was a graduate of Harvard University.

Another long and pointless paragraph and a claim that only smeared your biology teacher. Did you have a point here?

 

[Oncedeceived]

I would rather not if you don't mind because it's you who has the flawed thinking not me, you enjoy.

Thank you I will.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Read your posts and then turn it around and read it like someone was talking about evolution.

Sorry, that is not good enough. I can and will support any of my claims about science with valid scientific sources. Creationists cannot claim the same.

 

[Oncedeceived]

Sorry, that is not good enough. I can and will support any of my claims about science with valid scientific sources. Creationists cannot claim the same.

You are ignoring scientific claims.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I used exactly what scientist use.

People have pointed out to you that you haven't. The person kicking and spitting at bums may think that he is the same sort of Christian as you are, but I would bet that you would disagree.

That is why I asked for your personal interpretation of this. You can't pass the buck onto scientists just as the person spiting on and kicking the homeless can't tell pass on his bad behaviors to Jesus.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You are ignoring scientific claims.

Nope, at best you seem to be misinterpreting scientific claims. Name one that I have ignored.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I have. I used a definition that a scientist does. I have just been trying to establish the basis for the argument and as of yet have not been successful.

You claim to use the same one that scientists use, but it seems that you are only picking and choosing at best. And you have only yourself to blame that the debate has not started successfully. You have not been open and clear about what you believe.