the final deception and its antidote

[Stryder06]

What I understand about the gospel is; it's the word that leads the people unto salvation. The gospel is the good news that Jesus commissioned His apostles to teach. If faith is based on hearing and believing in the gospel, should it different from what Jesus and His follows taught plainly?
The "everlasting gospel" is the same words preached by which we're saved.

Here is another writer's account taken from a bible dictionary about the Gospel.

<http://www.blueletterbible.org/Search/Dictionary/viewTopic.cfm?
type=GetTopic&Topic=Gospel&DictList=4#ISBE>

Ok. So what's the issue then? You understanding of the gospel, from what you've said here, doesn't seem to be any different from our understanding, or at least, from mine. The gospel is the good news, and it is what Jesus taught. What I gave you from Revelation is just that. John said the angel had the everlasting gospel, thus I don't see how what he heard would have been different from what Christ taught in regards to the gospel message.

 

[Cribstyl]

Ok. So what's the issue then? You understanding of the gospel, from what you've said here, doesn't seem to be any different from our understanding, or at least, from mine. The gospel is the good news, and it is what Jesus taught. What I gave you from Revelation is just that. John said the angel had the everlasting gospel, thus I don't see how what he heard would have been different from what Christ taught in regards to the gospel message.

What John saw, can only be spiritually discerned. The only part that concerns the everlasting gospel are these words relating to the first angel.

And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,


<http:// www.blueletterbible.org/commentaries/comm_view.cfm?
AuthorID=1&contentID=5743&commInfo=26&topic=Revelation&
ar=Rev_14_6 >




7Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

 

[Stryder06]

What John saw, can only be spiritually discerned. The only part that concerns the everlasting gospel are these words relating to the first angel.

And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,


<http:// www.blueletterbible.org/commentaries/comm_view.cfm?
AuthorID=1&contentID=5743&commInfo=26&topic=Revelation&
ar=Rev_14_6 >



7Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

The whole of scripture must be spiritually discerned. The message of all three of the angels is part of the everlasting gospel. Do you believe they were teaching a different gospel?

 

[Cribstyl]

The whole of scripture must be spiritually discerned. The message of all three of the angels is part of the everlasting gospel. Do you believe they were teaching a different gospel?

Dont get it all twisted. The only way the gospel can be misleading is....when you allow someone to use over 1million words you claim are inspired as the bible.
These words say more that Moses wrote about creation in Genesis and also have more visions about the heavenlies and the final days than John's book of Revelations.

What should we do with the 85,000 inspired words of the bible that are hstorically confirmed bytprophets and apostles?

False prophets are quick to decipher prophetic imagery and risk getting it wrong, rather than to speak about the love and gift of God in the person of Jesus Christ.
The gospel teaches us that the law is not of faith. Trying to say that raising these biblical issues is teaching a lawless gospel could only be a lie from hell.

The truth is, when other books and other prophets get it wrong this becomes the deception. The true antidote is to preach what Paul wrote, Preach what Luke wrote, Preach what Peter wrote line upon line.


Let the Scriptures Determine Your Theology, Do Not Read Your Theology into Scripture.

 

[Stryder06]

The truth is, when other books and other prophets get it wrong this becomes the deception. The true antidote is to preach what Paul wrote, Preach what Luke wrote, Preach what Peter wrote line upon line.


Let the Scriptures Determine Your Theology, Do Not Read Your Theology into Scripture.

The truth is that we ought to preach the entirety of scripture, not just what the disciples wrote. You understand the OT then you can properly explain what the disciples letters meant.

Sr White's teachings do not change the message of the gospel. The fact is that the angel said what the everlasting gospel was. You asked and it was shown to you. John, at the end of Revelation, said that those who do the commandments have a right to enter into the city and have a right to the tree of life. That sounds like good news to me.

Telling others to keep the law is not deception. Telling people that the law no longer exists is. And when you really think about it, it doesn't add up. Why a Judge and an Advocate if there is no law to preside over? Why the need to ask for forgiveness if there is nothing to violate?

Your OP seems to be misleading. You asked about the gospel and it was shown to you. Why bring up Sr White? You assume my theology is based of of what I know about her writings. You are grossly mistaken.

 

[Cribstyl]

The whole of scripture must be spiritually discerned. The message of all three of the angels is part of the everlasting gospel. Do you believe they were teaching a different gospel?

I'm sure you have an explantion or commentary for why the scriptures only mentioned that the first angel had the everlasting gospel.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

I'm sure you have an explantion or commentary for why the scriptures only mentioned that the first angel had the everlasting gospel.

The 'angels' of Rev 14 are God's people... we are to give these messages to the world.

 

[Stryder06]

I'm sure you have an explantion or commentary for why the scriptures only mentioned that the first angel had the everlasting gospel.

Each message builds upon the message before it. I'm sure you can see that.

 

[Cribstyl]

Each message builds upon the message before it. I'm sure you can see that.

What I can see is people saying everything but what the scriptures are saying.

The 'angels' of Rev 14 are God's people... we are to give these messages to the world.

I do agree that the 3angels messages are delivered by God's people, but you're trying to lump the messages together.

Who are the 144000 and "where are they", when the angels gives their message?

 

[Stryder06]

What I can see is people saying everything but what the scriptures are saying.

You see what you want to see. So because the bible doesn't say angel 2 and 3 had the everlasting gospel, that means they didn't? What is the message of the three angels? Each one builds on the other which is why each message is part of the gospel.

I do agree that the 3angels messages are delivered by God's people, but you're trying to lump the messages together.

No, the messages come one after the other. But all three are still part of the gospel. I'm confused as to why we're even debating this. Do you think that the final two messages have nothing to do with the gospel? If so then why?

 

[Cribstyl]

You see what you want to see. So because the bible doesn't say angel 2 and 3 had the everlasting gospel, that means they didn't? What is the message of the three angels? Each one builds on the other which is why each message is part of the gospel.



No, the messages come one after the other. But all three are still part of the gospel. I'm confused as to why we're even debating this. Do you think that the final two messages have nothing to do with the gospel? If so then why?

Why?
I believe that "the everlasting gospel" is a specific message, which is the good news that gives sinners an the opportunity to repent and accept God's free gift of salvation through faith in Jesus Christ.

I believe that Jesus preached it,
Peter preached it on the day of Penticost.
Jesus commanded Peter to feed it to His sheep.
Paul preached it in every epistle to all the churches.
Luke wrote about it in Luke and Acts.
Stephen preached it before Paul condemned him.

I could go on...........

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Why?
I believe that "the everlasting gospel" is a specific message, which is the good news that gives sinners an the opportunity to repent and accept God's free gift of salvation through faith in Jesus Christ.

I believe that Jesus preached it,
Peter preached it on the day of Penticost.
Jesus commanded Peter to feed it to His sheep.
Paul preached it in every epistle to all the churches.
Luke wrote about it in Luke and Acts.
Stephen preached it before Paul condemned him.

I could go on...........

The same gospel of salvation through the coming Saviour was given to God's people from Genesis onward. The only difference is they were looking forward to the cross and we are looking back. The story the Bible narrates is not a disjointed one but a message for all people for all times.... the decalogue included.

 

[Cribstyl]

The same gospel of salvation through the coming Saviour was given to God's people from Genesis onward. The only difference is they were looking forward to the cross and we are looking back. The story the Bible narrates is not a disjointed one but a message for all people for all times.... the decalogue included.

That's false. (end quote)

 

[Paul 5]

That's false. (end quote)

Why in the world would you call that post false??? You do understand that Christ and His sacrifice is the central theme of all of the bible,those in the OT were looking forward and we today are looking backward.

 

[Paul 5]

The whole of scripture must be spiritually discerned. The message of all three of the angels is part of the everlasting gospel. Do you believe they were teaching a different gospel?

Another possibility, the word GOSPEL in the NT does not always refer to what we call the gospel(salvation through faith in Christ), the word was actually "glad tidings" or what we would call "good news". It is possible that the angel was proclaiming the "glad tidings" of..."fear God and give glory to Him for the hour of His judgment is come and worship Him that made heaven and earth and the sea and the fountains of waters." This makes more sense to me since it is obvious from the NT that men and not angels had to proclaim the gospel of salvation by faith in Christ. So two reasons,first to have an angel proclaim the gospel would contradict the rest of the NT, and second the glad tidings of the angel could very well be the message that the angel gave immediately after scripture states that the angel has a message of glad tidings...I see the word gospel as confusing folks since it is almost always used to me the message of faith in Christ for salvation,however it does not have to always mean that and is used in the NT to simply mean glad tidings(good news).

 

[Cribstyl]

Why in the world would you call that post false???

The bible is the word of God. The bible 'contains' the gospel it is not the gospel. There is one gospel and it's all about Jesus Christ.

You do understand that Christ and His sacrifice is the central theme of all of the bible,those in the OT were looking forward and we today are looking backward.

Yes, Christ and His sacrifice is central to the bible, and that's why His blood seals and brings us into a New Covenant and not the same Old Covenant made with 1 nation that came out of Egypt.


The gospel was first preached in Genesis to Abraham when God said, " in thy seed all the nations of the world would be blessed."
And Yes, we have to consider prophetic words about God's salvation all over the bible ( Gen3:15)

The gospel is primarily God's plan of salvation to save the world.


Jesus made a clear distinction between the preaching of the gospel of the Kingdom and the law and the prophets.
Luk 16:16The law and the prophets [were] until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.


Paul made clear distinction between Jewish religion of the OT and what Christ put in His spirit "to preach" Apostle to the Gentiles.

Gal 1:11¶But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
Gal 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught [it], but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
Gal 1:13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:
Gal 1:14 And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.

What Christ commanded Peter and Paul after His resurrection should be the words Christians trust as doctrines from God.
Why would Paul exhort us to preach no other doctrine if the socalled three angels message is the final word to the world?

 

[Stryder06]

Why?
I believe that "the everlasting gospel" is a specific message, which is the good news that gives sinners an the opportunity to repent and accept God's free gift of salvation through faith in Jesus Christ.

I believe that Jesus preached it,
Peter preached it on the day of Penticost.
Jesus commanded Peter to feed it to His sheep.
Paul preached it in every epistle to all the churches.
Luke wrote about it in Luke and Acts.
Stephen preached it before Paul condemned him.

I could go on...........

After reading that I don't see what the issue is. The gospel that Jesus taught is the same that Peter taught, is the same that Paul taught, is the same that the three angels heralded. You say it is a specific message? What are the exact words from scripture that comprise the gospel message?

What in the three angels messages doesn't give the the sinner a change to repent and accept salvation from Christ?

 

[Stryder06]

Another possibility, the word GOSPEL in the NT does not always refer to what we call the gospel(salvation through faith in Christ), the word was actually "glad tidings" or what we would call "good news". It is possible that the angel was proclaiming the "glad tidings" of..."fear God and give glory to Him for the hour of His judgment is come and worship Him that made heaven and earth and the sea and the fountains of waters." This makes more sense to me since it is obvious from the NT that men and not angels had to proclaim the gospel of salvation by faith in Christ. So two reasons,first to have an angel proclaim the gospel would contradict the rest of the NT, and second the glad tidings of the angel could very well be the message that the angel gave immediately after scripture states that the angel has a message of glad tidings...I see the word gospel as confusing folks since it is almost always used to me the message of faith in Christ for salvation,however it does not have to always mean that and is used in the NT to simply mean glad tidings(good news).

I'm thinking we're on the same page here. The gospel has always been the good news. You tell someone that Jesus loves them, you're spreading the gospel. You tell someone how they ought to treat their neighbor, you're spreading the gospel. Anything to do with salvation is the gospel, which is why the 3 angels message is called the everlasting gospel.

 

[Stryder06]

Why would Paul exhort us to preach no other doctrine if the so called three angels message is the final word to the world?

Paul exhorted us to not preach a different gospel. The three angels message is the final call to the world because that's how it goes. God showed part of it to Daniel and expounded upon it to John.

Time is winding up and God has a message of haste that has to go to all the world before the end comes.

 

[Cribstyl]

After reading that I don't see what the issue is. The gospel that Jesus taught is the same that Peter taught, is the same that Paul taught, is the same that the three angels heralded. You say it is a specific message? What are the exact words from scripture that comprise the gospel message?

What in the three angels messages doesn't give the the sinner a change to repent and accept salvation from Christ?

If the first angels message has come and gone in 1844, this means that Investigative Judgment currently is taking place in the heavenly sanctuary, right?. Does that seem to be the gospel that Paul preached? Will the gospel be available to the world during and after this judgment?

Paul exhorted us to not preach a different gospel. The three angels message is the final call to the world because that's how it goes. God showed part of it to Daniel and expounded upon it to John.

Time is winding up and God has a message of haste that has to go to all the world before the end comes.

Please take notice that I've been asking; what's is the everlasting gospel? So, it seems now you are telling me "the gospel should be followed from the Prophetic interpretation of Daniel and John? What should we do with Peter and Paul's letters about the comming of the Lord? Should we assume that they're not talking about Jesus comming to earth? Are we really talking about the same gospel?

I have taken the time to read what EGW established as the 3 angel's message. Some of you guys seem to be providing misleading answers and arguments and playing the argument card because you may not know what "the spirit of prophecy's" declared as the three angels message;


According to EGW the first angel's message; here is an exert from "The Great Controversy" (1911) Chapter 24 http://www.connectingwithjesus.org/media/GC.pdf

http://www.connectingwithjesus.org/media/GC.pdf
Both the prophecy of Daniel 8:14, "Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed," and the first angel's message, "Fear God, and give glory to Him; for the hour of His judgment is come," pointed to Christ's ministration in the most holy place, to the investigative judgment, and not to the coming of Christ for the redemption of His people and the destruction of the wicked. The mistake had not been in the reckoning of the prophetic periods, but in the [FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]event [/FONT][/FONT]to take place at the end of the 2300 days. Through this error the believers had suffered disappointment, yet all that was foretold by the prophecy, and all that they had any Scripture warrant to expect,
had been accomplished. At the very time when they were lamenting the failure of their hopes, the event had taken place which was foretold by the message, and which must be fulfilled before the Lord could appear to give reward to His servants.
Christ had come, not to the earth, as they expected, but, as foreshadowed in the type, to the most holy place of the temple of God in heaven.

It seem clear according to EGW, there are 3 angels message(s) not one message.

Quote one text from the gospel that Jesus, Peter, Luke and Paul preached saying that Jesus is comming back in investigative judgment in the heavenly sanctuary before comming back to earth?

"I saw a company who stood well guarded and firm, giving no countenance to those who would unsettle the established faith of the body. God looked upon them with approbation. I was shown three steps-- the first, second, and third angels' messages. Said my accompanying angel, "Woe to him who shall move a block or stir a pin of these messages. The true understanding of these messages is of vital importance."

(Early Writings of Ellen G. White, page 258, paragraph 3, Chapter Title: Spiritual Gifts A Firm Platform.)

Hello, Remember that you cannot add to or change the words of a prophet, if that word is from God to His people.