The final Authority on Christianity!

[JimfromOhio]

The members of the physical historical Church do not believe in an invisible Church.... The invisible Church is a manifiestation among those who are not a part of the physical historical Church....

In light of that, again I ask, what of those who are members of the physical historical Church.... Do they have it all wrong?

Forgive me.....

At the instant of our conversion, we become "eternal members" in the universal church of Jesus Christ, based solely on His merit and grace. If you are a Christ-follower, then you are already this kind of member. This is eternal and unchanging (I Corinthians 12:12-13; Ephesians 2:13-22; 4:3-6; Colossians 1:13-22). Everyone who is saved is a member of God's Kingdom. That is invisible Church. God does not choose us based on our denominational beliefs.

Therefore, your statement basically dividing people based on denomination rather than unity in spirit.

 

[Chemnitz]

I couldn't vote.

There was no button for "both".

 

[Lynn73]

Whose version of the church? We have more than one claiming they are THE ONE and ONLY ONE and so and so forth. I say the Holy Scriptures. Since they are the word of God and He is the final authority.

 

[Chemnitz]

Whose version of the church? We have more than one claiming they are THE ONE and ONLY ONE and so and so forth. I say the Holy Scriptures. Since they are the word of God and He is the final authority.

There is only one Church.

One Lord, one faith, one Baptism.

It's just not defined by the signs hanging outside the buildings we worship in.

 

[Lynn73]

It’s a book- a divinely inspired one but still a book none the less. It contains an account of the truth but it is Not THE truth, it is a book. Jesus is the truth.

These words were spoken by Christ in a prayer to the Father:


Joh 17:17 - Show Context Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

Both the Scriptures and Christ are the truth. Unless you're saying God's word isn't the truth? Something He holds even above His own name?

 

[Debi1967]

What say you?

The Church has it because God works through the Church

 

[Lynn73]

Yes, The Church, is above The Scriptures.... she is the author of them.

God is the Author of the Scriptures. They wouldn't be authoritative at all if just men wrote them. Their Author is God and He used the pens of Christians to write them and He enabled them to recognize what was Scripture and what wasn't.

THE CHURCH must need be defined without ambiguity for a person to truely believe in the authority of it.

The church's authority lies in it's acceptance of the Scriptures as God's word and final authority. It isn't above the word of God.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

It doesn't matter a whole lot what people believe, but rather what the clear teaching of the Word of God speaks concerning the church of God, which is His body, His flesh and His bones.. the Body of Christ..

And the clear teaching is that God alone places each and every member into His body as it pleases Himself.. see 1 Cor 12.. it's not that difficult.

Paul says that it is AFTER a person trusts in Christ, after hearing the word of truth, the gospel of our salvation, and after they believe, that they are sealed (by God) with the Holy Spirit of promise which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of His glory.

Christ alone is building His church, member by member, as it pleases Himself. For He alone knows the heart, and He alone purifies the heart by faith.

So, if you can physically see those who have been 'sealed' with the Holy Spirit of promise.. ie, who have Christ in them.. then you can physically see the church of God..

Let's be frank.. nobody can see those who have been sealed and added to His Body.. God alone knows those that are His.. you and I do not..

And of course there are many local assemblies of believers all over the world.. although that in no way mandates that every person in attendance has Christ in them.. and there's an eternity of difference between professing Christ and possessing Christ within.

Do you know how The Church seals the newly Baptised with The Holy Spirit? It's called Chrismation.... Yes I see them.

Again, how would you or I know that they're Christians in the absolute sense of what that means.. ie, having Christ in them.. we can certainly see fruits of the spirit in folks although our judgment isn't always right on.. is it..?

See the scripture in my signature.

Why do you ask forgiveness for your statements..? If you're speaking the truth in love, then there is no need to ask for forgiveness..?

See my Blog.

Forgive me....

 

[Teekz]

The church is Gods temple, but how can one teach without knowing Gods laws, and his word, The church i believe was gods gift, his word was directly from him, how can you pick the gift over the giver?... but in the end they are both important, but to answer ur question i would have to say the scriptures

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

At the instant of our conversion, we become "eternal members" in the universal church of Jesus Christ, based solely on His merit and grace. If you are a Christ-follower, then you are already this kind of member. This is eternal and unchanging (I Corinthians 12:12-13; Ephesians 2:13-22; 4:3-6; Colossians 1:13-22). Everyone who is saved is a member of God's Kingdom. That is invisible Church. God does not choose us based on our denominational beliefs.

Therefore, your statement basically dividing people based on denomination rather than unity in spirit.

I do not believe in denominations.....

While it is true that every "true believer" is mystically membered into The Church on some level, that is not the subject of this thread. The subject is: Which has the authority.

The question is believe what? We must believe as The Church believes to be membered with it. Many read The Holy Scriptures and think they understand what they need to believe. But it is not so.... There are many who read The Holy Scriptures incorrectly, you would not deny this.

You search The Holy Scriptures and believe, you do well. But it is The Church "of Christ God" that you desire membership with, nomatter where you may find her.

She, The Church, is Christs bride and she is the authority on The Holy Scriptures.

The Holy Scriptures were written by Christians who were and are members of The Church.... The Church holds these scriptures to be HOLY.... It is her authority that states they are HOLY!

Without The Church we are without unity, we are without communion, We are without The Holy Eucharist and unable to partake of The Divine Mysteries that Christ God has left to us through the Apostles..... (John 17)

The Holy Scriptures are Holy, but only because they come to us through Christs tool of choosing... The Church.

Forgive me.....

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

The church is Gods temple, but how can one teach without knowing Gods laws, and his word, The church i believe was gods gift, his word was directly from him, how can you pick the gift over the giver?... but in the end they are both important, but to answer ur question i would have to say the scriptures

And yet The Church existed without The Scriptures for many years....

Even the OT LAW (The old Church as it were) existed long before they had a written canon.

Forgive me....

 

[Lynn73]

And who is the church? Believers. Whom He guided in penning HIS word. His word has the authority over believers (the church), not vice versa.

 

[JimfromOhio]

I do not believe in denominations.....

While it is true that every "true believer" is mystically membered into The Church on some level, that is not the subject of this thread. The subject is: Which has the authority.

The question is believe what? We must believe as The Church believes to be membered with it. Many read The Holy Scriptures and think they understand what they need to believe. But it is not so.... There are many who read The Holy Scriptures incorrectly, you would not deny this.

You search The Holy Scriptures and believe, you do well. But it is The Church "of Christ God" that you desire membership with, nomatter where you may find her.

She, The Church, is Christs bride and she is the authority on The Holy Scriptures.

The Holy Scriptures were written by Christians who were and are members of The Church.... The Church holds these scriptures to be HOLY.... It is her authority that states they are HOLY!

Without The Church we are without unity, we are without communion, We are without The Holy Eucharist and unable to partake of The Divine Mysteries that Christ God has left to us through the Apostles..... (John 17)

The Holy Scriptures are Holy, but only because they come to us through Christs tool of choosing... The Church.

Forgive me.....

When Jesus said that the Comforter is coming, He was saying: "The Comforter will not come to stand on His own, to speak on His own authority. He will guide you into all truth-He will speak and act on the authority of the divine Godhead: Father, Son and Holy Spirit. God is spirit and faith is required to know Christ and then, the Holy Spirit will reveal who God really is. The Holy Spirit manifests Christ into our human spirit, not to our physical eyes.

The New Testament repeatedly emphasizes the importance of going to church. In fact, it was the pattern of Paul's ministry to establish local congregations in the cities where he preached the gospel. Hebrews 10:24-25 commands every believer to be a part of such a local body and reveals why this is necessary.

NIV: And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds. Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching.

Acts 2:42 shows us what the early church did when they met ogether: "They were continually devoting themselves to the apostles' teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer."

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

And who is the church? Believers. Whom He guided in penning HIS word. His word has the authority over believers (the church), not vice versa.

Those who wrote it are those that Christ left in charge.

Do the scriptures Baptise?

Do the scriptures offer The Holy Eucharist?

Do the scriptures pray seven times a day with The Holy Angelic Choir?

The scriptures do nothing by themselves.... They are the records of The Church and are to be understood through The Church.

The Church provides....

The Church is the living testament of Christ God.

Forgive me....

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

IT IS THE CHURCH THAT CAN PROVIDE THE HOLY EUCHARIST AND IT IS THE CHURCH THAT CAN DENY THE HOLY EUCHARST IF YOU DO NOT BELIEVE AS SHE BELIEVES...

She is the authority.

Forgive me....

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

When we are baptised, we are baptised by The Church into The Church.... not by The Holy Scriptures and into The Holy Scriptures.

The Scriptures hold NO authority except what is given through The Church..

That being said, realize that The Church holds The Holy Scriptures as being authorative while being used by The Church.

Forgive me...

 

[JimfromOhio]

IT IS THE CHURCH THAT CAN PROVIDE THE HOLY EUCHARIST AND IT IS THE CHURCH THAT CAN DENY THE HOLY EUCHARST IF YOU DO NOT BELIEVE AS SHE BELIEVES...

She is the authority.

Forgive me....

Body of believers (Christians) have the authority to worship from their hearts, not buildings or denominations.

Again... Authority is a tricky word. When you step beyond the Word of God, you’ve overstepped the bounds of your authority. God reveals Himself primarily through the pages of Scriptures; that is why I believe the Bible as my absolute authority. 1 Peter 4:11 instructs me to handle biblical truth: "If anyone speaks, let him speak as the oracles of God." As divinely revealed truth, it carries the full weight of God's own authority.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Body of believers (Christians) have the authority to worship from their hearts, not buildings or denominations.

Again... Authority is a tricky word. When you step beyond the Word of God, you’ve overstepped the bounds of your authority. God reveals Himself primarily through the pages of Scriptures; that is why I believe the Bible as my absolute authority. 1 Peter 4:11 instructs me to handle biblical truth: "If anyone speaks, let him speak as the oracles of God." As divinely revealed truth, it carries the full weight of God's own authority.

IMHO~ Most people are afraid that if they were to truely admit that The Church is authorative then they are supporting the claim of The Church of Rome.

Not So.... I, and the other Orthodox, believe that Rome left The Church long ago. (No offense intended, just telling the Orthodox view.)

The Church is not the property of Rome....

But that does not mean that The Church with all her authority is still intact.

Forgive me....

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Most modern Christians suffer gravely from Romaphobia.

Myself included.

Forgive me.....

 

[a_ntv]

The results up to now:

the Church:
- 1 protestants / anglicans
- 6 catholics
- 5 orthodoxes
- 4 christians / not indicated

the Holy Scripture
- 10 protestants / anglicans
- 0 catholics
- 0 orthodoxes
- 14 christians / not indicated

But I really think that the OP should have defined what 'final authority' means: IMO it is a matter of teaching...