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I thought you believed that the "masses" went through the broad gate.I'm just showing you why the masses disagree with you.
If you can see what he sees...OK, Laz! You see what you see. You will choose to believe what you choose to believe.
I disagree with the masses, but why do you decline to answer my Question? Surely there is a fatal flaw in it that you can point out.
If your neighbor was torturing people in his basement, would you brag about his good character?I have answered every question you guys have thrown at me, you can't deny that.
<SM>Jesus' entire mission, his raison d'etre, if you will, is to save the world from death, package it up and present it to the Father with a big bow on it, with a card saying 'Love always, your devoted son'.
Don't concern yourself about me, my salvation was made sure probably before you were born. How and when does that change of heart happen to the sinners in the lake of fire?
I have answered every question you guys have thrown at me, you can't deny that.
It's all to no avail, you will not even consider the points I make. I am wrong before I speak.
You have chosen what you will and will not believe. So be it!
I'm tired of my words being thrown to the wind.
All men are "in Adam" because all men are actual, literal descendants of Adam but "all men" are not "in Christ." Paul did not say "all men shall be made alive by Christ." Note further what Paul says about "in Christ."Question @Charlie24
Is this the Word of God?
1 Corinthians 15:22 King James Version (KJV)
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
In Matt 25:41 Jesus orders the goats to depart to the aionion fire I think in reference to the lake of fire whereas the sheep are allowed to enter into the millennial kingdom where Jesus rules with a rod of iron as you wrote. All the unsaved dead that are raised at the first resurrection (Jn 5:28-29; Acts 24:15). Thus no one is still "dead" at the beginning of the millennium. The rest of the dead in Rev 20:5 must then refer to those who physically die - during the millennium. At the GWT, those who died during the millennium are judged according to their works which determines whether or not they end up in the LOF.Okay, but it seems to me that the only references to the judgment of fire in Revelation pertain to the GWTJ. I agree that the 'dead' from the sea, death and Hades are the subject of the judgment. But keep in mind the nations have all fallen for Satan's lies again and God unleashes heavenly fire upon them in Rev 20:7 after he returns at the end of the millennium. So it seems to me that whoever is 'dead', whether physically or spiritually, remains that way at the first judgment - the resurrection to judgment (first resurrection) being a sentence to the rod of iron for 1,000 years, and since that doesn't work when the devil returns (the law being ineffective to produce true repentance), God escalates it to the fire.
Now, I could well be wrong, because Jesus seems to indicate in Matt 25:41 that the national goats get the fire at first resurrection. But in Rev the second death refers to the lake of fire treatment at the GWTJ for those who are still 'dead' after the 1,000 years.
It would help if there was a clear indication in Rev that the holy fire judgment occurred at the first resurrection.
Thanks for your post.In Matt 25:41 Jesus orders the goats to depart to the aionion fire I think in reference to the lake of fire whereas the sheep are allowed to enter into the millennial kingdom where Jesus rules with a rod of iron as you wrote. All the unsaved dead that are raised at the first resurrection (Jn 5:28-29; Acts 24:15). Thus no one is still "dead" at the beginning of the millennium. The rest of the dead in Rev 20:5 must then refer to those who physically die - during the millennium. At the GWT, those who died during the millennium are judged according to their works which determines whether or not they end up in the LOF.
At the first resurrection, those raised includes disobedient Israel where God promised them that He will one day fulfill a new covenant with Israel where He will write His law upon their hearts and He shall be their God (Jer 31:31-34). This is not Zionist Israel today which is human ordained; not God ordained. This is the fulfillment of prophecy spoken of in Ezekiel 37 where their dry bones are commanded to come up out of their graves when God will make them into one nation and cleanse them. All Israel will be saved is a theme in both the OT and NT. Thus the law is effective for Israel as God writes the law on their hearts instead of tablets of stone. The law is also effective for some but not all of the gentiles during the millennium as they make the yearly pilgrimage to Jerusalem to celebrate the feast of tabernacles (Zech 14:16).
Since you cannot read or comprehend, I'll copy & paste again here for your reading enjoyment and enlightenment.Wrong! I conflated nothing. I was talking about Rev 7:14 you are talking about Rev 22:14. Evidently according to Rev 22:14 some of those cast into the lake of fire and/or the dogs, sorcerers, fornicators, murderers, idolaters, and liars outside the city may be washing their robes. But nowhere does it say all. Maybe you can show me where it says everyone in the lake of fire and/or all the dogs, sorcerers etc outside the city are washing their robes.
Because the law never passed away. Remember Jesus clearly stated that He did NOT come to abolish the law so the law still exists. He came to fulfill the law which means to make full as Jesus is the ultimate fulfillment of the law - not the doing away of it. Scripture states that the law is our tutor which instructs us in God's ways and informs us of right from wrong, leading us to Christ (Gal 3:24). Rom 3:20 states that the law justifies no one but through the law comes knowledge of sin. If the law has passed away as so many Christians believe, then there would be no knowledge of what constitutes as sin. If people do not know what is sin, how can they repent of it? And that is why the law is prominent in the millennium when Jesus rules with a rod of iron where those people have to be taught what constitutes as righteous/unrighteous behavior. Jesus did not replace the law; instead the law will tutor/guide them to Christ. After all, we cannot have the law written upon our hearts without knowing what the law entails.Thanks for your post.
This is stuff I have never given much thought. Feeling distant from it.
Do you have any thoughts about what these folks at the GWT will be judged for?
If Satan (and the demons?) are in the abyss, who will be tempting humankind to sin?
Or is our sin nature enough to lead us astray?
And why the re-establishment of OT law?
You did not read my post I never said anything different. But I'm still waiting for you to show me where it says everyone in the lake of fire and among the dogs etc. outside the city will be washing their robes. Especially after the angel said "Let the one who does what is evil continue to do what is evil. Let the filthy person continue to be filthy."Since you cannot read or comprehend, I'll copy & paste again here for your reading enjoyment and enlightenment.
Rev 22:14 Blessed are those washing their robes,a that their right will be to the tree of life, and they shall enter into the city by the gates. 15 Outside are the dogs, and the sorcerers, and the sexually immoral, and the murderers, and the idolaters, and everyone loving and practicing falsehood.
The New Jerusalem has already come down to earth and God is among His people which you already noted in Rev 21:3. In the next chapter Rev 22, John further describes the city including the lake of fire outside. Note in v.14 note that πλύνοντες is a present tense participle better translated as "washing." Since the saints are already in the city and God is among His people as you have already acknowledged, WHO IS WASHING THEIR ROBES? Aren't the saints in the city already supposed to have their robes washed and clean?? Since the saints are already in the city and God is among His people as you have already acknowledged, who WILL HAVE THE RIGHT TO THE TREE OF LIFE and SHALL ENTER INTO THE CITY BY THE GATES?? The saints are already in the city so who else is allowed to enter? The only possible answer is THOSE OUTSIDE THE CITY in the lake of fire v.15.
Comprende?
I love you brother, but I am 180 degrees opposed to that idea. Perhaps I will be glad that I am NOT on earth at that time. But if what you say is correct I suppose I will be effected by it in some way. The rules are the rules, I suppose. Maybe I'll take my time in the hot tub. - lolBecause the law never passed away. Remember Jesus clearly stated that He did NOT come to abolish the law so the law still exists. He came to fulfill the law which means to make full as Jesus is the ultimate fulfillment of the law - not the doing away of it. Scripture states that the law is our tutor which instructs us in God's ways and informs us of right from wrong, leading us to Christ (Gal 3:24). Rom 3:20 states that the law justifies no one but through the law comes knowledge of sin. If the law has passed away as so many Christians believe, then there would be no knowledge of what constitutes as sin. If people do not know what is sin, how can they repent of it? And that is why the law is prominent in the millennium when Jesus rules with a rod of iron where those people have to be taught what constitutes as righteous/unrighteous behavior. Jesus did not replace the law; instead the law will tutor/guide them to Christ. After all, we cannot have the law written upon our hearts without knowing what the law entails.
Psalm 35:5-6I'm tired of my words being thrown to the wind.
Pray tell, who else is left Der Alter??You did not read my post I never said anything different. But I'm still waiting for you to show me where it says everyone in the lake of fire and among the dogs etc. outside the city will be washing their robes. Especially after the angel said "Let the one who does what is evil continue to do what is evil. Let the filthy person continue to be filthy."
Opposed to what idea? Elaboration please.I love you brother, but I am 180 degrees opposed to that idea. Perhaps I will be glad that I am NOT on earth at that time. But if what you say is correct I suppose I will be effected by it in some way. The rules are the rules, I suppose. Maybe I'll take my time in the hot tub. - lol
That the law never passed away.Opposed to what idea? Elaboration please.
Are you even reading my posts? I conceded that that those washing their robes may be some in the lake of fire and the dogs, sorcerers etc. outside the city but nowhere does it say all.Pray tell, who else is left Der Alter??
Obviously, the saints in the New Jerusalem have already WASHED their robes and made them clean. So who can it possibly be who are WASHING their robes? Must be those darn aliens, ETs huh? Since the saved already are wearing laundered linen, who can it be who is still wearing sooty clothing Der Alter? Fact is there is only one choice - the unsaved. And just where might they be? Oh yeah; those dogs, sorcerers, fornicators, etc. outside the City in the lake of fire, in v.15. Any other suggestions? Inquiring minds want to know.
Moreover, you overlook the fact that v.11 comes before v.12. Talk about cherry-picking without paying attention to context. V.11 states he/him, the unjust are still filthy. V.12 however states that Jesus is COMING [present/indicative] soon with His reward according to each man's work. Thus there is still time for those in the LOF to wash their robes. The invitation to come to Christ still exists. V.17 confirms this as practically the whole verse is rendered in the present tense. The ones hearing, thirsting, desiring are able to come to Christ and take of the water of life freely.
So Jesus did not know what He was talking about when He said "But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:" Mar_3:29? Since according to you "nobody will end up committing the unforgiveable sin."My interpretation of it that apparently it is worse to blaspheme the Holy Spirit than Jesus Himself.
I have no idea what God's motive is for it.
I do believe in universal reconciliation (because of the prophecies), so therefore I conclude that nobody will end up committing the unforgiveable, or that it doesn't mean it separates them who do from the love of God forever.
The law or Torah simply means "instruction." We are no longer under a guardian/tutor because Jesus is the fulfillment of the law thus we are no longer under tutelage - because the law points to Jesus at its fulfillment. However, that does not mean the law is done away with. That cannot be since Rom 3:20 states "by the law is knowledge of sin." Thus without the law, there is no knowledge of sin. So if the law passed away as you believe, how do people repent of their sin without the knowledge of what constitutes as sin? The 10 Commandments which are part of the law have not passed away have they? Are they still not in effect? People cannot repent if they do not know what to repent of and no repentance means no forgiveness. I realize this is a thorny subject but Jesus clearly stated that He did not come to abolish the law. Paul reiterated the same thing when he wrote: Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law (Rom 3:31).That the law never passed away.
Galatians 3:23-25
Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.
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