THE FALSE TEACHINGS OF UNIVERSALISM - BEWARE!

Hello Jord, welcome dear friend and nice to meet you . Some comments for your consideration are provided below.

Jord Simcha said:

Haha no, there is no gambling involved as FineLinen already stated.

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Perhaps you have not been following all the conversation here dear friend. We are here are in this thread and after 106 pages and 2100 + post there has not been a single scripture provided that says that the unrepentant wicked receive everlasting life after the second coming. I count myself blessed to be able to share the scriptures with you dear friend for your prayerful consideration but only ask you my come to our discussion with a prayerful open mind and consider the Word of God that will be shared that will not be my words but God's Word. According to the scriptures there is no second chances for the unrepentant wicked after the second coming of JESUS. The unrepentant wicked receive the second death and are destroyed in the lake of fire *Revelation 21:8; 2 Thessalonians 1:9; Hebrews 10:26-27, (more scriptures there is too many linked). To believe otherwise when the God's Word says that the unrepentant wicked are destroyed after the second coming is gambling with ones salvation indeed.

I will make these post smaller so they are easier to read and respond to. To be continued...

@Jord Simcha,

Let's now consider the scripture you have provided here dear friend and look at the context to these scriptures which also may be a help to this conversation... May prayer is that you may also prayerfull consider what is being shared with you in the links and scriptures provided in the previous post and in these posts that will examine the contexts of the scriptures your providing here and if you can hear God's Word through his Spirit take the corrections and be blessed as God is calling you....

Jord Simcha said:

And who did He choose? "Us", according to Ephesians 1:4. Who is us? Is it all readers of those words everywhere?
It might be, considering the Bible is addressed to all mankind.

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Note who Paul is talking to dear Jord. Who is the "US" is it believers; that is those who believe and follow God's Word or "Unbelivers" (the unrepentant wicked) that Paul is talking to when he says... "According as he has chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love". The point here is that the "US" is in reference to the saints, the believers not the unbelievers or the unrepentant wicked after the second coming. God's Word is for God's people who are all those who believe and follow it (please read John 10:26-27 and Matthew 7:21-27). Keep in mind that the unrepentant wicked are "unbelievers" they do not believe and follow God's Word. God's Word is to those who believe and follow it. According to the scripture these are the Saints - the "US" being referred to in Ephesians 1:4.

Hope this is helpful..

Jord Simcha said:

For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. (1 Timothy 4:10). Saviour of ALL men. Especially those that believe. So that implies even of those that don't believe.That is big.There is no mention of a deadline here. Not your deathbed, not the Second Coming of Jesus Christ. It is God's plan to save all of the world (yes, it goes beyond mankind): For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. (John 3:17) That the world might be saved (through Him). Not part of the world, not just men, no, the world. That is God's purpose for Jesus Christ. He is the Saviour of the world (not to say of the universe, but the Bible uses the term world).

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Once again lets look at the contexts again and how this scripture relates to other scripture within the bible. If we read the scriptures we must always remember that context is king also Gods' Word does not contradict itself. If we take an interpretation of the scripture and our interpretation of the scriptures contradicts other scripture we can know that we do not have a correct understanding of the scriptures and our interpretation of them is in error. If we find our interpretation of the scriptures contradicts other scriptures that teach the opposite to what we believe it should be a red flag to us that perhaps our understanding of the scripture is in error as Gods' Word does not contradict itself.

Ok with those thoughts in mind. Let's start of by looking at the context of 1 Timothy 4:10 and see how interpretation related to the rest of the scriptures and the bible.

The scripture says.. that "For therefore we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, specially of those that believe."

The purpose of these scriptures is to show that Jesus has made provision for the sins of all mankind *John 1:29; John 3:16-17 and that Jesus is the promised Messiah and Savior of the world foretold by the prophets *John 4:42. He is our only hope and shows God's love for all mankind (the world) by sending his only begotten son that whosoever "believes" on him should not perish but have everlasting life. Note here that the context of John 3:17 is once again as it is to 1 Timothy 4:10 to those who "believe" which is conditional. Jesus is indeed the Saviour that God sent to save the whole world to save the world and it is to the whole world that this gospel must be preached *Matthew 26:13; 1 John 2:2 but according to the scriptures this salvation is conditional and only given to those who "believe and follow" Gods' Word.

The Greek word used here for "specially" (1 Timothy 4:10) is G3122 μάλιστα is an adverb and means most (in the greatest degree), above all and chiefly. That is, God's desire is that for all the world to be saved *1 Timothy 2:4. The word "will" in Greek is "thelo." It means , "desires" God desires that all people in the world to be saved. But, not all people will be saved as the scriptures teach that God's invitation to the world of salvation is conditional on believing and following God's Word *John 3:16; Matthew 7:21-27. According to the scriptures God is not willing that anyone should perish but that all should receive a knowledge of the truth of his Word and come to repentance and turn to him *2 Peter 3:9; Hebrews 10:26-27.

This scriptures do not say that all mankind will receive salvation but that Jesus is the Saviour for all mankind and has made provision for it through his life, death and resurrection. In context to the rest of the bible, salvation is conditional on believing and following God's Word and John 3:16 is the context of John 3:17. God's free gift of grace is conditional on believing and following Gods' Word (scripture support here linked). According to the scriptures, those who do not believe and follow Gods' Word are not saved but condemned *Mark 16:16 and do not partake of the resurrection of eternal life *John 5:28-29 as the promise of God's salvation is to those who believe *John 3:16. Those who do not believe are condemned already in their unbelief *John 3:18-21.

According to the scriptures there is no second chances for the unrepentant wicked after the second coming of JESUS. The unrepentant wicked receive the second death and are destroyed in the lake of fire *Revelation 21:8; 2 Thessalonians 1:9; Hebrews 10:26-27, (more scriptures there is too many linked). So no dear friend 1 Timothy 4:10 and John 3:17 when context is applied does not teach that the unrepentant wicked receive eternal life after the second coming.

Hope this is helpful

Jord Simcha said:

There is more where that came from, but I think these verses are crystal clear. If you Love God's Word as much as your username implies (or is that imperative? ) then you would probably be able to come up with a few verses yourself that confirm my case and that of my universalist friends such as FineLinen and ShrewdManager. Colossians 1:20 is one of my favorites.

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Well thanks for your advice dear Jord but you are a little behind the times in this thread. All the so called scripture have already been addressed throughout the thread and when context is provided does not say what universalists claim they are saying. Also, you may wish to consider that even after 106 pages and 2100 + post there has not been a single scripture provided that says that the unrepentant wicked receive everlasting life after the second coming.

According to the scriptures there is no second chances for the unrepentant wicked after the second coming of JESUS. The unrepentant wicked receive the second death and are destroyed in the lake of fire *Revelation 21:8; 2 Thessalonians 1:9; Hebrews 10:26-27, (more scriptures there is too many linked). To believe otherwise when the God's Word says that the unrepentant wicked are destroyed after the second coming is gambling with ones salvation indeed.

The teachings of Universalism contradict the bible. Try reconciling all the scriptures in the linked post above and what is written here if you disagree. If you cannot perhaps it is time to prayerfully reconsider what you believe. The teachings of Universalism has it's origins from GENESIS 3:1-5 do you know what that is?

Thanks for sharing your thoughts dear friend.

LoveGodsWord wrote: 1. The unrepentant wicked do not receive eternal life *JOHN 3:36

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Your response here...

Jord Simcha said:

Yes, this is because they have to repent first.

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True repentance does indeed come first. This is why the unrepentant wicked are destroyed in the lake of fire. Can you show me dear friend the scripture that says that the unrepentant wicked repent and receive eternal life after the second coming? If you cannot does this not concern you? According to the scriptures, the unrepentant wicked receive the second death and are destroyed in the lake of fire *Revelation 21:8; 2 Thessalonians 1:9; Hebrews 10:26-27, (more scriptures there is too many linked). John 3:36 BTW says.. " 36, He that believes on the Son has everlasting life: and he that believes not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God stays on him." What you have written above is not biblical or does it support your the claims of Universalism that falsely teaches that the unrepentant wicked receive everlasting life after the second coming.

LoveGodsWord wrote: 2. The unrepentant wicked are destroyed after the second coming *2 THESSALONIANS 1:9

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Your response here...

Jord Simcha said:

I believe repentance and destruction go hand in hand. I believe God's Word destroys (sharper than any double edged sword) and resurrects.

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The scripture in 2 Thessalonians 1:9 with context added says "
[7] To you that are afflicted rest with us, at THE REVELATION OF THE LORD JESUS FROM HEAVEN WITH THE ANGELS OF HIS POWER IN FLAMING FIRE,[8], RENDERING VENGEANCE TO THEM THAT KNOW NOT GOD, AND TO THEM THAT OBEY NOT THE GOSPEL OF OUR LORD JESUS: [9], WHO SHALL SUFFER PUNISHMENT, EVEN ETERNAL DESTRUCTION FROM THE PRESENCE OF THE LORD and from the glory of his might. These are Gods' Word not mine and they do not say what you are saying dear Jord something to pray about.

LoveGodsWord wrote: 3. The unrepentant wicked partake of the second resurrection of condemnation *JOHN 5:28-29
4. The unrepentant wicked in the second resurrection of condemnation partake of the second death in the Lake of fire *REVELATION 20:6; REVELATION 21:7-8.

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Your response here...

Jord Simcha said:

Assuming they died on earth as their first death, I believe this second death is a spiritual death. Death of the old man. A death that believers already died having been crucified with Him, etc. I believe this death is a good death.

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Your belief here dear friend is only your opinion and not based on the scriptures you are quoting from which say that the unrepentant wicked partake of the second death in the lake of fire *REVELATION 20:6; REVELATION 21:7-8 and partake of the second death in the second resurrection where there is no eternal life *JOHN 5:28-29.

LoveGodsWord wrote: 5. There is no more resurrections after the second death and no more death.

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Your response here...

Jord Simcha said:

I think you are assuming there are no resurrections after this. There is no more death, you're right, so I think I can assume nobody is dead then.

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Not at all Jord, there is no assuming anything here. Where is the scripture that says that the unrepentant wicked receive eternal life. You have already been provided the scriptures which are Gods' Word not mine showing that the unrepentant wicked after the second coming do not receive eternal life but receive the second death and are destroyed in the lake of fire. Universalism provides unbiblical claims that the unrepentant wicked receive eternal life without scripture dispite the scriptures alone stating that the unrepentant wicked are destroyed in the lake of fire which is the second death. It is you who that is making claims that the unrepentant wicked receive eternal life after the second coming when there is no scripture. Therefore the presumption is on your side as you have no scripture to support your claims here.

LoveGodsWord wrote: Now where is it in any of your post here that says that the unrepentant wicked receive everlasting life after the second coming?

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Your response here...

Jord Simcha said:

Right, they have to repent first. But it is implied that they will because of other verses. God saving everybody is clearly prophesied. For example in Hebrews 8:11.

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Implied means you have no scripture to answer this question do you. If you have no scripture just say so. I asked you to provide me a scripture that says that the unrepentant wicked receive eternal life after the second coming when all the scriptures state that the unrepentant wicked are destroyed in the second death in the lake of fire. This alone should be something to pray about as what your proposing is a contradiction of the Word of God and adding to the teachings of the book of Revelation to which we are warned against doing *Revelation 22:18-19. BTW Hebrews 8:10-12 is the new covenant promise to God's people from Jeremiah 31:31-34. It is not a promise to the unrepentant wicked after the second coming.

Hope this is helpful.

FineLinen said:

The Lake of Theos will be experienced by the radical all, the good, the bad & the ugly.

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Dear Fine, time to get your facts right. There is no such thing as the lake of theos. The Greek here is the lake of pur (πῦρ). That is the Greek words used here in "the lake of fire" from G4442 which means " fire" (literally or figuratively, specifically lightning): - fiery, fire. It is the same "firey fire" (pur; πῦρ) according to the scriptures of God's indignation that will devour the adversaries in Hebrews 10:27 and the same "firey fire" (pur; πῦρ) that is used in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-9 that will be used in God's vengence to destroy the unrepentant wicked after the second coming. Time to leave the gambling lady of second chances dear Fine. There is no second chance to the unrepentant wicked that receive the second death and are destroyed in the lake of fire according to the scriptures.

Hope this is helpful.

FineLinen said:

Put on your listening ears. Take your fingers out of your ears & focus.

The restitution of all things happens in the dispensation of the fulness of times. In that mighty happening there are zero who will not have had radical adjustment, tuned by the God of at-one-ment.

Adam1 = "many made sinners".

Last Adam = the same many "made righteous."

Many = many, all = all, polus = polus !

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Dear Fine, perhaps it is you who needs to take heed to your own advice and open your eyes and ears to hearing and seeing God's Word. They are Gods' Words not mine.

Many does not always mean "all". Many used here in the Greek is G4183 πολύς, πολλός; polus polos (much (in any respect) or (plural) many ; neuter (singular) as adverb largely ; neuter (plural) as adverb or noun often, mostly, largely : - abundant, + altogether, common, + far (passed, spent), (+ be of a) great (age, deal, -ly, while), long, many, much, oft (-en [-times]).

This is the same as when Jesus says; "Many are called but few are the chosen" *Matthew 22:14 which agrees with the words of JESUS when he says in Matthew 7; "[21], Not every one that said to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that does the will of my Father which is in heaven. [22], Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? and in your name have cast out devils? and in your name done many wonderful works?[23], And then will I profess to them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity.

The many (πολύς, πολλός; polus polos) does not mean the all (Matthew 7:22) dear Fine. Time to leave the gambling lady of second chances. There is no second chances for the unrepentant wicked who receive the second death in the lake of fire according to God's Word.

Hope this helps dear friend.

FineLinen said:

The Lake of Theos has two primary qualities. Those qualities are theion and theioo. The root foundation of theion & theioo = Theos.
The Lake of Theos radiates with theion and theioo the breath of Jehovah !

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As posted earlier dear Fine it is time to get your facts right. There is no such thing as the "lake of theos". Your making this up. The Greek word used here is the lake of pur (πῦρ). That is the Greek words used here in "the lake of fire" from G4442 which means " fire" (literally or figuratively, specifically lightning): - fiery, fire. It is the same "firey fire" (pur; πῦρ) according to the scriptures of God's indignation that will devour the adversaries in Hebrews 10:27 and the same "firey fire" (pur; πῦρ) that is used in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-9 that will be used in God's vengence to destroy the unrepentant wicked after the second coming. Time to leave the gambling lady of second chances dear Fine. There is no second chance to the unrepentant wicked that receive the second death and are destroyed in the lake of fire according to the scriptures.

FineLinen said:

Wake up Lover: The Lake of Fire/Pur is the Lake of all lakes whose primary purpose is to bring change & transformation. The ONLY segment of our broken species not "hurt" are the overcomer. They cannot be hurt further, their entire life of union with Theos has been one of dying daily.

I will state it again: The Lake of Theos has two primary qualities. Those qualities are theion and theioo. The root foundation of theion & theioo = Theos.

The Lake of Theos radiates with theion and theioo the breath of Jehovah !

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Wake up dear Fine. It is time to leave the gambing lady of second chances. There is no such thing as the "lake of theos". Your making this up. The Greek word used here is the lake of pur (πῦρ). That is the Greek words used here in "the lake of fire" from G4442 which means " fire" (literally or figuratively, specifically lightning): - fiery, fire. It is the same "firey fire" (pur; πῦρ) according to the scriptures of God's indignation that will devour the adversaries in Hebrews 10:27 and the same "firey fire" (pur; πῦρ) that is used in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-9 that will be used in God's vengence to destroy the unrepentant wicked after the second coming. Time to leave the gambling lady of second chances dear Fine. There is no second chance to the unrepentant wicked that receive the second death and are destroyed in the lake of fire according to the scriptures.

FineLinen said:

News alert:

A fellow poster has presented a replacement theology.

In Adam ALL were made sinners. (All have sinned and come short of the glory of God - Romans 3:23) Not just many, everybody.

Jesus offers salvation to all, but not all choose to receive it - very few in fact.

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The unequal equation =

All (pas) have sinned. ALL are "made sinners."

Some (tis) are "made righteous."

The foundation of discipleship =

"You did NOT choose Me, I chose you"

"For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous." -Romans 5:19-

Replacement plan b=

Adam 1 = “many made sinners”

Last Adam = a few made righteous: very few.

many = polus

some = tis

all = pas

few = oligos

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Time to leave the gambling lady of second chances dear Fine. The "many" does not always mean the "all". Many used here in the Greek is G4183 πολύς, πολλός; polus polos (much (in any respect) or (plural) many ; neuter (singular) as adverb largely ; neuter (plural) as adverb or noun often, mostly, largely : - abundant, + altogether, common, + far (passed, spent), (+ be of a) great (age, deal, -ly, while), long, many, much, oft (-en [-times]).

This is the same as when Jesus says; "Many are called but few are the chosen" *Matthew 22:14 which agrees with the words of JESUS when he says in Matthew 7; "[21], Not every one that said to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that does the will of my Father which is in heaven. [22], Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? and in your name have cast out devils? and in your name done many wonderful works?[23], And then will I profess to them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity.

The many (πολύς, πολλός; polus polos) does not always mean the all dear Fine (Matthew 7:22). According to your interpretation of the many all will be lost according to Matthew 7:22

Time to leave the gambling lady of second chances. There is no second chances for the unrepentant wicked who receive the second death in the lake of fire according to God's Word.

Hope this helps dear friend.

FineLinen said:

Yup!

This is precisely the word (polys) used by the Saviour of all mankind in St. Matthews Gospel!

"polys are called eklektos are chosen."

Replacement plan b=

Adam 1 = “many made sinners”

Last Adam = a few made righteous: very few.

many = polus

some = tis

all = pas

few = oligos

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FineLinen said:

Put on your listening ears. Take your fingers out of your ears & focus.

The restitution of all things happens in the dispensation of the fulness of times. In that mighty happening there are zero who will not have had radical adjustment, tuned by the God of at-one-ment.

Adam1 = "many made sinners".

Last Adam = the same many "made righteous."

Many = many, all = all, polus = polus !

Click to expand...

Time to leave the gambling lady dear Fine. Repitition does not make what you say magically come true. You cannot compare two different scripture contexts to determine Greek Word applications as it is context that determines Greek word meanings in the Greek.

Many does not always mean "all" dear friend as shown earlier Many in the Greek is G4183 πολύς, πολλός; polus polos (much (in any respect) or (plural) many ; neuter (singular) as adverb largely ; neuter (plural) as adverb or noun often, mostly, largely : - abundant, + altogether, common, + far (passed, spent), (+ be of a) great (age, deal, -ly, while), long, many, much, oft (-en [-times]).

This is the same as when Jesus says; "Many are called but few are the chosen" *Matthew 22:14 which agrees with the words of JESUS when he says in Matthew 7; "[21], Not every one that said to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that does the will of my Father which is in heaven. [22], Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? and in your name have cast out devils? and in your name done many wonderful works?[23], And then will I profess to them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity.

Look at Matthew 7:22 Many (G4183 πολύς, πολλός; polus polos) same word used in Romans 5:12-19.

According to your interpretation of the Greek Matthew 7:22 means "All (your interpretation in red which is really many as applied to context)" (G4183 πολύς, πολλός; polus polos) will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? and in your name have cast out devils? and in your name done many wonderful works? [23], And then will I profess to them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity.

According to your interpretation of the Greek here all will be lost!

Time to open they eyes and ears and hear the Words of God dear friend.

FineLinen said:

Repetition, (Lover's repitition), as you should at last know does not make for magical outcome.

Pas does indeed not equal polus.

Perfect God math!

The same polus "made sinners" = the polus "made righteous."

With "all the more" added to the Saviour of all mankind.

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I am sorry dear Fine but I do disagree with you here. Let me try and re-word why I disagree with your interpretation and application of the scriptures here and show why by adding context to Greek word application.

The application and interpretation to the Greek word polus is always to scripture context (Compare Romans 5:12-19 to Matthew 7:21-23). Go look it up. In Romans 5 the applications context is to v12 which is all mankind (the many) - 1st Adam all were made sinners. In the second Adam (Christ) all (translated "the many in context to v12) are made righteous. The context is "through Christ; and the gift of Gods grace" the many will be made righteous which is application to the saved or saints as God's Grace is received through faith - Ephesians 2:8; John 3:16; John 10:26-27. The application to Grace is not to the unrepentant wicked after the second coming who do not believe or have no faith.

Note now ROMANS 5:20-21 [20], "And the law came in besides, that the trespass might abound; but where sin abounded, grace did abound more exceedingly [21], that, as sin reigned in death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

The application context here is to "God's Grace" "through Christ" which is received through faith *Ephesians 2:8 not to the unrepentant wicked outside of Christ who do not believe God's Word (have no faith). Those who are outside of Christ are the unrepentant wicked (Unbelievers).

The use of (G4183 πολύς, πολλός; polus polos) is always to scripture context and does not always have the same interpretation applications as shown earlier in Matthew 7:22-23. Romans 5 does not say the unrepentant wicked will be saved. It says that because of Christ (2nd Adam) many will be made righteous application context to the many being made righteous is "through Christ and God's "free gift of Grace" which is received "through faith". That application is to the saved not the unsaved who receive God's free gift by faith. This is the contexts around G4183 πολύς, πολλός; polus polos (the many)

Hope this more helpful dear friend