The Fall feasts.

NannaNae · Sep 23, 2014

murjahel said:
Paul was reminding them that the feasts, Sabbaths, etc were types and figures, but not the substance... One can celebrate that Jesus became our Passover, and not be just trusting the blood of a literal lamb to save. If one turns from Christ back to the feasts, etc., then that is wrong. That is what some had done... but to celebrate the feasts as prefiguring Christ, to be now realizing Jesus is our Sabbath, our Passover lamb, our Lord Who tabernacled with us, our FIRSTFRUIT of resurrection, etc is what the feasts are now to show us. It is not worshiping Christ and His fulfillment of the feasts that Paul objected to...

So, you add to the word, and think it is 'so obvious', well, what you use in your judging ways is not 'so obvious' to students of the Word... I am commandedin Colossians to not allow anyone to judge me concerning this subject... It ceases now, no more judgment words to me, frogster! cease contact...

yes and I did catch one of the jews on this site saying
"worship the feasts " instead of worship Jehovah Lord of his feasts on his feast. so Paul is saying don't Worship the feasts.. they are not your salvation. He is ..

These his appointed prophesied days that He did , IS , and will deal with mankind/and nations in his way at his timing. yes through the blood he can now also deal with mankind as individuals too.

if they really don't care how He will deal with the nations and judge the world and purify the earth , create new things and rewarding his saints and faithful etc.. then sure they don't have to do the feasts.

because there is no way they can understand any of those subjects without a pretty good understanding of His feasts days. if those people who only want to worship Saturn and colored eggs of Isis and the pine trees of Tammuz would just stop even trying to understand prophesy and theology until they do understand HIM in his truths >> not the worldly in theirs .
they can't remove His prophesy from his feast days.
that is pure human IGNOR-ance to try .
truly they can't even begin to understand prophesy with out Jehovah in his days, the same days that Jesus fulfilled at least in part all the spring days.

Frogster · Sep 23, 2014

murjahel said:
Paul was reminding them that the feasts, Sabbaths, etc were types and figures, but not the substance... One can celebrate that Jesus became our Passover, and not be just trusting the blood of a literal lamb to save. If one turns from Christ back to the feasts, etc., then that is wrong. That is what some had done... but to celebrate the feasts as prefiguring Christ, to be now realizing Jesus is our Sabbath, our Passover lamb, our Lord Who tabernacled with us, our FIRSTFRUIT of resurrection, etc is what the feasts are now to show us. It is not worshiping Christ and His fulfillment of the feasts that Paul objected to...

So, you add to the word, and think it is 'so obvious', well, what you use in your judging ways is not 'so obvious' to students of the Word... I am commandedin Colossians to not allow anyone to judge me concerning this subject... It ceases now, no more judgment words to me, frogster! cease contact...

If it were all so simple, why was Paul worried deeply that this philosophy, would lead them away as booty in a war?

2:1 For I want you to know how great a struggle I have for you and for those at Laodicea and for all who have not seen me face to face,

2:8 See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits[a] of the world, and not according to Christ.

Like in Galatia, Paul knew this stuff has spiritual implications, and dynamics, leading people FROM Christ, out of grace, that all the happy face teachings, and the seeming innocent mode portrayed by the promotors of Judaism. just don't want to see.

Why was Paul worried here too? Heck, what's the big deal about keeping Sabbbath and feasts, gosh?

Gal 4:20 I wish I could be present with you now and change my tone, for I am perplexed about you

Bro, bottom line both churches and others were under attack, by people that wanted to add stuff to the gospel, by law, or by dynamic principle, and he shows that is takes away from Christ, pure and simple, I posted the text.

Mull this over please, thanks, froggy.

ToBeBlessed · Sep 23, 2014

Frogster said:
If it were all so simple, why was Paul worried deeply that this philosophy, would lead them away as booty in a war?

2:1 For I want you to know how great a struggle I have for you and for those at Laodicea and for all who have not seen me face to face,

2:8 See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits[a] of the world, and not according to Christ.

Like in Galatia, Paul knew this stuff has spiritual implications, and dynamics, leading people FROM Christ, out of grace, that all the happy face teachings, and the seeming innocent mode portrayed by the promotors of Judaism. just don't want to see.

Why was Paul worried here too? Heck, what's the big deal about keeping Sabbbath and feasts, gosh?

Gal 4:20 I wish I could be present with you now and change my tone, for I am perplexed about you

Bro, bottom line both churches and others were under attack, by people that wanted to add stuff to the gospel, by law, or by dynamic principle, and he shows that is takes away from Christ, pure and simple, I posted the text.

Mull this over please, thanks, froggy.

I agree with you 100%!

NannaNae · Sep 23, 2014

Frogster said:
If it were all so simple, why was Paul worried deeply that this philosophy, would lead them away as booty in a war?

2:1 For I want you to know how great a struggle I have for you and for those at Laodicea and for all who have not seen me face to face,

2:8 See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits[a] of the world, and not according to Christ.

Like in Galatia, Paul knew this stuff has spiritual implications, and dynamics, leading people FROM Christ, out of grace, that all the happy face teachings, and the seeming innocent mode portrayed by the promotors of Judaism. just don't want to see.

Why was Paul worried here too? Heck, what's the big deal about keeping Sabbbath and feasts, gosh?

Gal 4:20 I wish I could be present with you now and change my tone, for I am perplexed about you

Bro, bottom line both churches and others were under attack, by people that wanted to add stuff to the gospel, by law, or by dynamic principle, and he shows that is takes away from Christ, pure and simple, I posted the text.

Mull this over please, thanks, froggy.

what religion/ denomination isn't adding volumes of laws and regulations..
and do that to help them skirt doing those, ALL those big ten?
well I'm perplexed about all of them too!
instead of love God and love your neighbor and don't eat food sacrificed to Idols , abstain from sexual immorality of all kinds.. the church does none of them and they sure aren't Judaized now, they are just worldly..

I sure hope you are all over the boards on each of these issues we are told to fear and fear them equally as much as you fear jews..pretty please because there is sure a lot worse things in this world for them to fear coming for the worldly , than being Judaized !

Frogster · Sep 23, 2014

ToBeBlessed said:
I agree with you 100%!

Thank you!

Frogster · Sep 23, 2014

To act as though, Paul did hot fear the spiritual bondage, or the distractions of feasts, or Judaism, or some of the other stuff going on in Colossians 2, is to really be short sighted.

Sure, sounds sweet, keeping a feast, or wearing a talit, and all of the other things taught today, but make no mistake, Paul said in Gal 5, a little leaven, in other words incrementalism, sneaky sneaky, inch by inch. He knew people could be seduced, and fought this stuff for a reason, he understood the spirit behind it, and it was not from God, he said in Gal 5 this teaching does not come from Him who called you.

Gee, if it is not the Lord, who is it!? Chapter 3 says "bewitched', gee..who would bewitch? Why did he use a word that means a spell?

Twas the devil!

Look how he warned the other church to beware of the Judaizers.

He had a healthy fear, sometimes some fear can be good, he says he is writing again, as a safeguard, he knew the game!

Phil 3:3 Finally, my brothers, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you is no trouble to me and is safe for you.

2 Look out for the dogs, look out for the evildoers, look out for those who mutilate the flesh.

LOOK OUT!...Said Paul...about the circumcision....

Now tell me he was not concerned about the feasts, and what was behind it all?

Frogster · Sep 23, 2014

Why would Paul fear? Because behind the sweet talk, and behind all the seemingly innocent words, he knew they could get all caught up in this stuff, he feared because he knew there was a power behind it, not of God.

He feared, it says it right after the mention of the Judaistic calendar, that which has Sabbath, feasts, etc.

Gal 4:10-11.
10 You observe special days, months, seasons, and years. 11 I am fearful for you, that perhaps my labor for you has been wasted

Here it is again, "I fear" said against the Judaistic forces invading Corinth, and notice who is behind it, the devil. Seduced from Christ it says, that is the spiritual ramification, behind the seemingly innocent creeping into law centered life..

2 Cor 11:3 But I fear that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, your minds may be seduced from a complete and pure devotion to Christ.

So lets end this notion like Paul took feast keeping lightly, he feared it, and fought it for a reason. Sounds nifty, but what is behind it?

probinson · Sep 24, 2014

The great irony in all of this is that in this attempt to not be ensnared by the law, a new law is created; "Thou shalt not observe the feasts!"

Freedom, it would appear, does not apply to this topic. DO NOT celebrate the feasts is the (grace?) message of the day. But Paul never said that. In fact, he said this;

Romans 14:5-11 (NIV)
One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. For none of us lives for ourselves alone, and none of us dies for ourselves alone. If we live, we live for the Lord; and if we die, we die for the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before Gods judgment seat.

Note that Paul doesn't say "convince those people that observe special days that they are wrong and you are right".

As has already been clarified, no one here is saying that you MUST observe the feasts. No one is imposing these feasts on anyone. On the other hand, there ARE those here that are saying you MUST NOT observe the feasts, which is 100% contrary to Romans 14, not to mention the grace and freedom that we all enjoy through Jesus Christ.

Like I said in my last post, if you want to celebrate the feasts, celebrate. If you don't, don't. It really is that simple.

Frogster · Sep 24, 2014

NannaNae said:
what religion/ denomination isn't adding volumes of laws and regulations..
and do that to help them skirt doing those, ALL those big ten?
well I'm perplexed about all of them too!
instead of love God and love your neighbor and don't eat food sacrificed to Idols , abstain from sexual immorality of all kinds.. the church does none of them and they sure aren't Judaized now, they are just worldly..

I sure hope you are all over the boards on each of these issues we are told to fear and fear them equally as much as you fear jews..pretty please because there is sure a lot worse things in this world for them to fear coming for the worldly , than being Judaized !

Thanks for your post, I understand your points.

NannaNae · Sep 24, 2014

Probinson that is so ON IT!

Paul does says to not eat meat( means food) sacrificed to Idols, which the church is doing every single pagan holy day! SO his people need to at the very least take time off and pray , fast, ask God what it is they can or can not do concerning it and ask him regularly what he would have you do .., learn what it is you do in his name , and what it is you are putting his name on.

Frogster · Sep 24, 2014

probinson said:
The great irony in all of this is that in this attempt to not be ensnared by the law, a new law is created; "Thou shalt not observe the feasts!"

Freedom, it would appear, does not apply to this topic. DO NOT celebrate the feasts is the (grace?) message of the day. But Paul never said that. In fact, he said this;

Romans 14:5-11 (NIV)
One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. For none of us lives for ourselves alone, and none of us dies for ourselves alone. If we live, we live for the Lord; and if we die, we die for the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before Gods judgment seat.

Note that Paul doesn't say "convince those people that observe special days that they are wrong and you are right".

As has already been clarified, no one here is saying that you MUST observe the feasts. No one is imposing these feasts on anyone. On the other hand, there ARE those here that are saying you MUST NOT observe the feasts, which is 100% contrary to Romans 14, not to mention the grace and freedom that we all enjoy through Jesus Christ.

Like I said in my last post, if you want to celebrate the feasts, celebrate. If you don't, don't. It really is that simple.

That was actually about which day for Sabbath, not feasts. But the point is, I have posted the majority clear view, from Paul. In the case of the Roman houses churches, the Jews and Greeks were constantly fighting over foods and which Sabbath day etc, so in that particular case, better for them to just do what they felt to do.

But even there, Paul said in verse 14, I know, by the Lord, the food is clean, establishing the clear objective truth, but sure, in their case, stop fighting, that is called a pertinent verse, for them, an imminent verse for an important moment for them, for their troublesome situation, but again, read all of my other posts to be more clear on how Paul felt.

You have to understand the history, and the context, and why in certain churches, or events, somethings seem to be different, but on a whole, as I showed, Paul did not want the church near that stuff.

murjahel · Sep 24, 2014

probinson said:
The great irony in all of this is that in this attempt to not be ensnared by the law, a new law is created; "Thou shalt not observe the feasts!"

Freedom, it would appear, does not apply to this topic. DO NOT celebrate the feasts is the (grace?) message of the day. But Paul never said that. In fact, he said this;

Romans 14:5-11 (NIV)
One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. For none of us lives for ourselves alone, and none of us dies for ourselves alone. If we live, we live for the Lord; and if we die, we die for the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before Gods judgment seat.

Note that Paul doesn't say "convince those people that observe special days that they are wrong and you are right".

As has already been clarified, no one here is saying that you MUST observe the feasts. No one is imposing these feasts on anyone. On the other hand, there ARE those here that are saying you MUST NOT observe the feasts, which is 100% contrary to Romans 14, not to mention the grace and freedom that we all enjoy through Jesus Christ.

Like I said in my last post, if you want to celebrate the feasts, celebrate. If you don't, don't. It really is that simple.

It is fun being able to say 'AMEN' to your posts...
LOL

What Paul spoke about to the Galatians, what he (probably Paul) spoke in the book of Hebrews, was to counter what we call 'galatianism' where the feasts, sacrifices, circumcision, etc were made mandatory for salvation, whereas we see that Paul plainly taught that they were types, shadows, and the reality is the salvation we now have in Jesus... Celebrating Passover with seeing its typology of Jesus, is not sinful... but trusting the celebration to be one's salvation, is wrong...

Frogster · Sep 24, 2014

NannaNae said:
Probinson that is so ON IT!

Paul does says to not eat meat( means food) sacrificed to Idols, which the church is doing every single pagan holy day! SO his people need to at the very least take time off and pray , fast, ask God what it is they can or can not do concerning it and ask him regularly what he would have you do .., learn what it is you do in his name , and what it is you are putting his name on.

Wha? he said it was ok to eat in the idol temple, and to eat everything sold in the Corinth meat market, that was idol blood unclean meat, and he said to eat the food from unbelievers, knowing it was idol meat, you may want to study 1 Cor 8, and 10, to get the facts right. he only said refrain, if a weak minded person could not handle it, but in no way did he say what meats can not be eaten.

He said in Rom 14, it is all clean...

NannaNae · Sep 24, 2014

to Murjahel Amen!

frogster are you saying that christians first don't have to leave the world and seek his face on every issue daily?
that everything is just fine to do , and go on like you did when you were the world?

Rev 2:14
But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.

Rev 2:20
Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

might I suggest he still has issues with that concept !
He is lord of our life or he isn't and won't be saved..
which means we submit our lives daily.

maybe if they have to stop partying and getting drunk , on days of pagans.. to stop fornicating..maybe that would be a good idea . maybe?

ToBeBlessed · Sep 24, 2014

murjahel said:
It is fun being able to say 'AMEN' to your posts...
LOL

What Paul spoke about to the Galatians, what he (probably Paul) spoke in the book of Hebrews, was to counter what we call 'galatianism' where the feasts, sacrifices, circumcision, etc were made mandatory for salvation, whereas we see that Paul plainly taught that they were types, shadows, and the reality is the salvation we now have in Jesus... Celebrating Passover with seeing its typology of Jesus, is not sinful... but trusting the celebration to be one's salvation, is wrong...

I don't think so.

I think Paul was pretty clear. Some will always try to justify what they want to do and it is MUCH easier when they have a group of people around them that agree with their errors.

Don't be lead into falsisms by the crowd. It was a crowd that crucified Jesus.

Frogster · Sep 24, 2014

murjahel said:
It is fun being able to say 'AMEN' to your posts...
LOL

What Paul spoke about to the Galatians, what he (probably Paul) spoke in the book of Hebrews, was to counter what we call 'galatianism' where the feasts, sacrifices, circumcision, etc were made mandatory for salvation, whereas we see that Paul plainly taught that they were types, shadows, and the reality is the salvation we now have in Jesus... Celebrating Passover with seeing its typology of Jesus, is not sinful... but trusting the celebration to be one's salvation, is wrong...

They were trying to add it on to the already justified, Gal 3;3, perfecting through the flesh. But did you address my point? Did Paul not fear this teaching in several churches, for spiritual reasons and ramifications?

Bro, I know that gal is about justification, but really it deals more with sanctification, because it dealt with how they would live in the future..

If circumcised, would they follow the law for 1 day, or for the rest of their lives?

When we bring sanctification into that epistle, it takes om new meaning.

PS, lets not forget, many MJ churhes think it law, or people "should" keep feasts, to please the lord.

So lets not act like many are just sort of doing a light act keeping feasts!

Frogster · Sep 24, 2014

ToBeBlessed said:
I don't think so.

I think Paul was pretty clear. Some will always try to justify what they want to do and it is MUCH easier when they have a group of people around them that agree with their errors.

Don't be lead into falsisms by the crowd. It was a crowd that crucified Jesus.

I hear ya!

Frogster · Sep 24, 2014

murjahel said:
It is fun being able to say 'AMEN' to your posts...
LOL

What Paul spoke about to the Galatians, what he (probably Paul) spoke in the book of Hebrews, was to counter what we call 'galatianism' where the feasts, sacrifices, circumcision, etc were made mandatory for salvation, whereas we see that Paul plainly taught that they were types, shadows, and the reality is the salvation we now have in Jesus... Celebrating Passover with seeing its typology of Jesus, is not sinful... but trusting the celebration to be one's salvation, is wrong...

Red above..ummm..well gee. sure. all they have to do is try to ad it on as something a Chrisitian "should do"...

Muddy waters there bro...

Besides, the movement that is bringing this into the church, thinks that "Yeshua" wants us to keep Sabbath and feasts, so once it is a should, it is law, and the conscience is now bound under the should, because one feels if he is not doing what they say, Jesus wants us to do, it is trouble. Besides, they all think we are bound to them by the law anyway.

Again bro, you must think of the spiritual implications I pointed out.

murjahel · Sep 24, 2014

Frogster said:
Red above..ummm..well gee. sure. all they have to do is try to ad it on as something a Chrisitian "should do"...

Muddy waters there bro...

Besides, the movement that is bringing this into the church, thinks that "Yeshua" wants us to keep Sabbath and feasts, so once it is a should, it is law, and the conscience is now bound under the should, because one feels if he is not doing what they say, Jesus wants us to do, it is trouble. Besides, they all think we are bound to them by the law anyway.

Again bro, you must think of the spiritual implications I pointed out.

● Respect another member's request to cease personal contact.

THIS IS A RULE UNDER 'FLAMING AND HARASSMENT' FOR THIS BOARD, AND THIS IS MY SECOND REQUEST FOR YOU TO CEASE SPEAKING PERSONALLY TO ME...

probinson · Sep 24, 2014

Frogster said:
but sure, in their case, stop fighting, that is called a pertinent verse, for them, an imminent verse for an important moment for them, for their troublesome situation,

It's also very apropos for you in this current discussion.

The Fall feasts.

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