The failure of LBJ's Great Society

[Redwingfan9]

Right-wing government, I must point out, not "Liberals wanting to make the poor dependent on a government handout." If there are no formal jobs and the poor are prevented from creating their own livelihoods, then a government handout is the only alternative.

Wrong. Welfare programs and minimum wage laws disproportionately hurt minorities, both are championed by liberals.

 

[Speedwell]

Wrong. Welfare programs and minimum wage laws disproportionately hurt minorities, both are championed by liberals.

So what's your alternative?
By far, most welfare recipients are white; does it hurt them, too?

 

[KCfromNC]

This is how free markets work though. If you can't afford the rent, you move.

I'll just repeat that this has nothing to do with the claim I was responding to. Seems like a diversion away from it, in fact.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

The problem in this country isn't systematic racism. The problem is liberal do gooders who use government to further an agenda that actually hurts blacks.

Before anyone complains about systemic racism they should think about who is in charge of the system.

 

[Arcangl86]

Before anyone complains about systemic racism they should think about who is in charge of the system.

You mean the Republican Party?

 

[rjs330]

America has never really embraced the idea of "welfare" or "social safety net" so it's hard to say if welfare has had some systemic bad effect on people. And the number of people who stay on welfare for extended periods of time is actually lower than you would assume based on reading Conservatives.

America has far too many people in poverty related to our national wealth. We have steadfastly stood four-square against "helping" people in any meaningful way. We are Americans! That means so long as "I got mine" I can ameliorate any modest guilt I have by donating to a couple charities and calling it a day.

Unfortunately that isn't going to help as much as establishing a society that actually CARES about people with less. Instead we prefer to demonize the poor or blame the poor. Anything to save our precious little pile of gold we accumulated for ourselves.

Acting like welfare somehow hurts the poor is the most absurd myth we have concocted in our fever-dream of a political philosophy in this country. How pathological of us to find a way to demonize the idea of caring for others. We have a sickness in our national soul. It's more of a cancer. But even the Christians on here know it's real name. It's our worship of Mammon.

The true sickness here is that the left believes the only way to "help" the poor is to give them stuff.

And the people who stay on welfare for extended periods of time is low. So then why do we want it bigger? If people are getting off the rolls then that's good right? Why do we need to expand it?

Should more people be on welfare social programs?

See you did what most leftists do. Make the leap that since we are concerned about people staying on welfare programs we are opposed to welfare programs. Please stop.

We have NO problem with social welfare programs to help people. We are opposed to people staying on social welfare. And we are opposed to having no requirements or no road forward so people can get off and stay off.

We do not always agree with what legislatures do in regards to this. I am sure you don't always agree with what the Democrats do. Often what we conservatives would like to see happen doesn't happen. Our representatives don't listen to us either half the time.

Welfare as it currently stands does hurt the poor in the long term. Because it doesn't provide for a way out.

 

[Redwingfan9]

You mean the Republican Party?

Quite the opposite. All of these riots are taking place in cities run by Democrats for decades, in states run by Democrats for decades with police departments run by Democrats for decades. Blacks are kept down by welfare and minimum wage laws pushed by Democrats. They're also hurt by the war on drugs, pushed by both parties.

If we want to get more broad ending slavery was opposed by Democrats, The KKK was the Democrats violent intimidation wing, Jim Crow was passed by Democrats and a majority of Democrats opposed every piece of civil rights legislation from the civil rights bills to anti-lynching bills.

I disagree with the concept of systematic racism. But if it exists it's on the Democrats. However, when the great examples of racism in our day are logos for pancake syrup, rice and bad porridge and garage door pulls are called racist nooses, you'll have to forgive me for not believing racism is wide spread. Those trivial matters indicate racism has long been dead.

 

[Speedwell]

The true sickness here is that the left believes the only way to "help" the poor is to give them stuff.

The true sickness here is that you actually believe that and spread it around to denigrate the Left.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

You mean the Republican Party?

Yeah, the republican party in Chicago, Seattle, Minneapolis, Los Angeles,

 

[Oompa Loompa]

The true sickness here is that you actually believe that and spread it around to denigrate the Left.

Have you seen the news lately? The left is denigrating themselves.

 

[Arcangl86]

Yeah, the republican party in Chicago, Seattle, Minneapolis, Los Angeles,

I was asked about the system. The system is run by Republicans. For instance the federal government can do a lot to reduce police brutality by using federal civil rights laws, but the Republicans in power don't think that's an appropriate step to take. The majority of states have Republican governors and legislatures. Racism doesn't just exist in the cities. It's a societal issue that needs to be addressed at all levels of society.

 

[istodolez]

The true sickness here is that the left believes the only way to "help" the poor is to give them stuff.

Like food? Yeah, I'm a sucker like that. I like to see people in my community NOT starving.

Should more people be on welfare social programs?

Why is the idea of helping other Americans so scary? I've always been curious about that.

We have NO problem with social welfare programs to help people. We are opposed to people staying on social welfare.

There's your problem. So many on the Right see nothing but people trying to take from them. People on welfare are SCARY because they are possibly trying to get something from the good Conservatives who pay their taxes. There are SO MANY bad Americans in their view that are trying to scam them for a penny.

And we are opposed to having no requirements or no road forward so people can get off and stay off.

And pulling out wholesale from public education leaving inner city schools to rot with insufficient funding followed by massive overpolicing and OVERSENTENCING for crimes ensuring that more young black men become felons and thereby limiting their future prospects is the best way to do that?

Welfare as it currently stands does hurt the poor in the long term. Because it doesn't provide for a way out.

No it doesn't. Are you currently living on welfare? Is it a "good life"? Do you enjoy it? In my >half a century on this planet I've never met someone who likes living on such little money and in squalor.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

I was asked about the system. The system is run by Republicans. For instance the federal government can do a lot to reduce police brutality by using federal civil rights laws, but the Republicans in power don't think that's an appropriate step to take. The majority of states have Republican governors and legislatures. Racism doesn't just exist in the cities. It's a societal issue that needs to be addressed at all levels of society.

Now ask yourself why nothing was done when democrats (particularly Barack Obama and Joe Biden). Second, the cities that i have mentioned has been democrat strongholds for generations. You cannot blame Republicans for Detroit, Chicago, Baltimore, ect... I know this is difficult to understand but ask yourself who benefits the most from minorities living in fear of white supremacy? The truth is that the Democratic Party and their politicians depend on the racial oppression and fear for their existence. Therefore, they must manufacture it and blame Republicans.

Edit: I just wanted to clarify that I am not just defending Republicans. Politicians from both parties try to take advantage of people of color through identity politics, race baiting, pandering, and empty promises. However, it is the Democratic Party that benefits the most from having minorities living in fear of white supremacy and becoming economically dependant.

 

[Arcangl86]

Now ask yourself why nothing was done when democrats (particularly Barack Obama and Joe Biden). Second, the cities that i have mentioned has been democrat strongholds for generations. You cannot blame Republicans for Detroit, Chicago, Baltimore, ect... I know this is difficult to understand but ask yourself who benefits the most from minorities living in fear of white supremacy? The truth is that the Democratic Party and their politicians depend on the racial oppression and fear for their existence. Therefore, they must manufacture it and blame Republicans.

The Department of Justice under Obama was very active in seeking and enforcing consent decrees against cities to improve their policing practices, signed the Fair Sentencing Act of 2010, reduced the use of solitary confinement in federal facilities, started to phase out the use of private prisons, commuted 1000 low level drug charges and reduced the rate of federal prosecutors filing charges with high mandatory minimums. And that's just on the criminal justice side. Trump has reversed most of those decisions.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

The Department of Justice under Obama was very active in seeking and enforcing consent decrees against cities to improve their policing practices, signed the Fair Sentencing Act of 2010, reduced the use of solitary confinement in federal facilities, started to phase out the use of private prisons, commuted 1000 low level drug charges and reduced the rate of federal prosecutors filing charges with high mandatory minimums. And that's just on the criminal justice side. Trump has reversed most of those decisions.

First step act. Look it up. If you cannot see how the democratic party uniquely benefits the most from at the expense of people of color, I really don't think we can have an understanding. All I can tell you is that as a person of color, my life has been significantly better once I left the Democratic plantation they call a party.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

So what's your alternative?
By far, most welfare recipients are white; does it hurt them, too?

Welfare isn't bad in itself. It has helped many people who are struggling. My mother used it for a period of time but she considered it a victory when she no longer needed it. The problem is the way people abuse the system. Like my cousin who braggs about using her SNAP benefits to buy steak and lobster only to turn down many job opportunities because she would "make too much". Then she hates me for voting Republican because "those greedy racists" are threatening to make her take drug tests and provide proof of job applications.

 

[rjs330]

The true sickness here is that you actually believe that and spread it around to denigrate the Left.

Perhaps you would like to try and change my mind? What does the left want to do for the poor to actually help them not be poor b sides give them stuff. Let's see if we agree.

Maybe we'll find common ground.

 

[rjs330]

Like food? Yeah, I'm a sucker like that. I like to see people in my community NOT starving.



Why is the idea of helping other Americans so scary? I've always been curious about that.



There's your problem. So many on the Right see nothing but people trying to take from them. People on welfare are SCARY because they are possibly trying to get something from the good Conservatives who pay their taxes. There are SO MANY bad Americans in their view that are trying to scam them for a penny.



And pulling out wholesale from public education leaving inner city schools to rot with insufficient funding followed by massive overpolicing and OVERSENTENCING for crimes ensuring that more young black men become felons and thereby limiting their future prospects is the best way to do that?



No it doesn't. Are you currently living on welfare? Is it a "good life"? Do you enjoy it? In my >half a century on this planet I've never met someone who likes living on such little money and in squalor.

You know in all that ramble you never offered any solutions other than "we gotta give people stuff". You offered no way to get people off if welfare systems and perpetuate the myth that conservatives want people to starve. And if you are not for the current system you don t want to help anyone.

I've worked with the poor for 35 years and I have had family that was in welfare. So I know exactly what it's like and who is on it. We won't help people if we don't make changes to the system. My family got off welfare not because welfare helped them. They got off of it strictly because they made a conscious effort to do things differently. Welfare did NOTHING to help them get off. They could have stayed on it for a very long time if they would not have chosen to to not live like that any more and actually do something help themselves.

The majority of the poor in America are poor due to bad decision making. That's it. And they stay poor because they continue to make bad decisions. It's time our system stop just giving them stuff and actually do things to help them get ahead in life and stop making poor decisions.

Those that are physically or mentally incapable we should really do our best to provide for them b cause they are that way through no fault of their own. They also need dignity. And we can help with that too by providing them a way to work, if possible, to assist themselves and help them feel like they are contributing. It's good for their soul.

 

[rjs330]

First step act. Look it up. If you cannot see how the democratic party uniquely benefits the most from at the expense of people of color, I really don't think we can have an understanding. All I can tell you is that as a person of color, my life has been significantly better once I left the Democratic plantation they call a party.

I don't remember if you addressed this or not, but how do you see the Democratic party benefiting at the expense of black people. As a white person all I can say is what I think from observations. But as a black man you have a unique perspective and I would love to hear it. Thank you.

 

[Redwingfan9]

I was asked about the system. The system is run by Republicans. For instance the federal government can do a lot to reduce police brutality by using federal civil rights laws, but the Republicans in power don't think that's an appropriate step to take. The majority of states have Republican governors and legislatures. Racism doesn't just exist in the cities. It's a societal issue that needs to be addressed at all levels of society.

Remind me what Obama did about any of that when he was President.