The existence Satan

[Colter]

There was sin in heaven, many followed Lucifer into rebellion. It was the "war in heaven", an ideological war. Sin was already on the earth before Adam incarnate as one of us.

 

[BobRyan]

There was sin in heaven, many followed Lucifer into rebellion.

That part is true.

The rest is merely "Urantia"

 

[Colter]

That part is true.

The rest is merely "Urantia"

Fortunately for me I'm not indoctrinated into the SDA sect forcing me to defend Bible book worship and the many errors within.

 

[BobRyan]

Fortunately for me I'm not indoctrinated into the SDA sect forcing me to defend Bible book worship and the many errors within.

how "odd" that you think Christians except for Seventh-day Adventists (the 5th largest Christian denomination in the world - according to Christianity Today) join your tiny sect in rejecting the Bible in favor of the Urantia book.

 

[Colter]

how "odd" that you think Christians except for Seventh-day Adventists (the 5th largest Christian denomination in the world - according to Christianity Today) join your tiny sect in rejecting the Bible in favor of the Urantia book.

Numbers don't mean much, Islam has now overtaken stunted Christianity.

 

[Radrook]

Keep in mind, the angels were not deceived like Adam and Eve were.

1 Timothy 2:14 ►
New International Version
And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.

 

[Radrook]

Do you think the garden deception was the last straw?

Where does the book of Job 1st chapter say that Satan was summoned?

 

[Stillicidia]

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[Radrook]

A Chronological Clarification of an Event in reference to Satan

Many Bible students seem to believe that the casting of Satan, described as a great Dragon, from Heaven occurred immediately after the Garden of Eden and that neither he nor his rebel angels were allowed access to heaven after they rebelled. However the book of Revelations tells us otherwise. Notice that its introduction John tells us that the things he is about to be shown are things that were to take place in the future. John lived during the first century CE. So the events were scheduled to take place in the future from that date.

1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

John describes the future events he sees which seem to be taking place before his very eyes:

7Then a war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8But the dragon was not strong enough, and no longer was any place found in heaven for him and his angels.…

No longer a place found for him and his angels in heaven!

John is clearly told that prior to this future event and during Johns own day, Satan and his angels were still allowed access to heaven.

So when Satan is described as brazenly showing up at a convention of holy angels in heaven in the book of Job-it wasn't as if it were the first and only time he or his rebels had been allowed to be there after the fall of mankind. His description of roving on the Earth was of his own free will and not because of being restricted to it. That event was still in the future when Revelation was written.

John continues to describe his vision of things to come:

Revelation 12:9 ►

The great dragon was hurled down--that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

Now, since John tells us that these things were to be part of the Lord's Day, as explained in his introductory statement-there is absolutely no biblical justification for the claim these things had already happened at the time of the Edenic event thousands of years before.

 

[Radrook]

Satan was the archangel of a third of heaven's angels. He possessed the snake on earth in the garden of Eden, hence how he was able to do it, because it was on the physical plane. He's very real.

Where in the Bible does it say that Satan was an Archangel?

Archangels mentioned in scripture
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/saint.php?n=609

Or are you relying on the apocryphal books?

 

[Stillicidia]

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[Radrook]

There were three archangels. Michael archangel of the hosts of heaven, which are the armies of heaven. Gabriel archangel of the couriers and messengers. Then Lucifer, archangel of the worshiping angels. He wanted that worship that would flow to god, and he thought he was special because of some stones that were adorned on him (that jesus took from him on the third day) He thought he was so special that he could be able to challenge god. He had some time to try and convince angels onto his side, and he gathered all of his own to his side (the worship angels) hence, a third of all of heaven followed him. He didn't gain any of Michael's angels, or any of Gabriel's angels, only all of his own. We will be replacing them.

Have some discernment, and people need to stop trying to hit people over the head with the bible.

Not disputing that Satan had angels who followed his rebellious example and accepted his leadership. I am referring to his status before he rebelled and set up his own organization in opposition to God. I see nowhere where he is ever referred to as having been one of God's faithful archangels prior to his rebellion. In fact, even after his rebellion when he and Michael dispute concerning Moses' it isn't described as an argument between two archangels. Instead, it is correctly described as an argument between an Archangel and a slanderer and deceiver which is what his titles signify.

So I guess we disagree on that point.
The following article supports what I just said:

Is Satan an Archangel or Even an Angel?

Some believe Satan is an archangel, but one may search Genesis and read on until the end of Revelation, but one would never read that Satan is an archangel. In order to discover any information about Satan being an archangel, one must read extra-biblical literature. It simply is not in the Bible. So, If the Bible is the source of our information about spiritual matters, Satan cannot be an archangel!

What about an angel? If Satan is not an archangel could he be an angelic being? Well, 2Corinthians 11:14 might be claimed by some to say so.


2 Corinthians 11:14 KJV (14) And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

However, when one considers the context, 2Corinthians 11:13 says men were troubling the church at Corinth, claiming to be apostles, yet Paul calls them false apostles. No one would conclude from this Scripture that by virtue of their power to transform their appearance, they became actual apostles. They were not apostles at all, for Paul calls them false apostles” and later (v.15) refers to them as ministers of Satan, who transformed themselves to appear as though they were ministers of righteousness.

Using this same reasoning, can we say for certain that verse-14 claims Satan is an angelic being when it calls him an angel of light? This, itself, is an oxymoron. How could we ever believe, by the virtue of his power of deception, that Satan is an angel of light. The whole idea of his power to transform his appearance is for deception or to impersonate a reality. The act of transformation does not make Satan or his ministers the real thing. However, if Satan is not an angel of light, could this Scripture be construed to indicate that he is at least an angelic being? That is, could Satan be one of those spirits that God created before He created mankind (Job 1:6; cp.38:4, 7)? Nowhere else in Scripture are the words Satan, devil, serpent, wicked one or dragon associated with the word angel. Many believe Job chapters one and two and Revelation chapter 12 show that Satan is an angelic being, but even in these Scriptures Satan is not called an angel or an archangel. They do not say he is not an angelic being, but the point is, these Scriptures cannot be used to support the assumption that he is, indeed, an angel.

The word satan comes from the Hebrew satan (H7854) and simply means “adversary” or “enemy.” Christians have used the word for a title of a rebellious angelic being, but we cannot prove that this being was ever angelic, if we use only God’s revealed word. In 1Samuel 29:4 David is called the Philistine’s satan (H7854). In 2Samuel 19:22 one of David’s close associates acted as his satan by giving him bad advice. 1Kings 5:4 reveals that God gave Solomon peace on all his borders, and he had no satans or enemies! Later, however, God stirred up several satans, because of Solomon’s unfaithfulness (cp. 1Kings 11:14, 23, 25). We can even find that the Angel of the Lord, who later became Jesus Christ, was Balaam’s satan or adversary (H7854, cp. Numbers 22:22, 32)!

In each of these cases the same Hebrew word is used. Therefore, just because we see the word satan (H7854) in Scripture, it does not necessarily indicate some evil and powerful being is revealed in the text. On the contrary, what would we do with David or the Angel of the Lord in the Scriptures above? For that matter, what would we do with Peter? The Lord called him a satan when Peter tried to say Jesus was wrong about the necessity of dying on the cross (Matthew 16:23). Who would believe that Peter was Satan personified?

The facts are clear, if we consider Scripture as accurate testimony. Not only can’t we prove Satan is an archangel, but we cannot even say he is an angel. 2Corinthians 11:14 simply cannot be used to show he is an angelic being. The context places this proposition in doubt, and there are no other Scriptures in the whole Bible that would claim Satan is an angel. So, why all the hype concerning this being we call Satan (see: The Invincible, Omnipresent Satan)? Why do we give him such godlike powers like omnipresence and omniscience? Every time we claim Satan knows our thoughts or more than one person claims Satan tempted him at the same specific time, we attribute godlike powers to this being we have assumed was a mere angel or archangel. Where do we get this understanding? It certainly is not from the Bible!

https://ntmusings.wordpress.com/2011/05/03/is-satan-an-archangel-or-even-an-angel/

Titles Satan has are

1. Roaring lion
2. Serpent
3. Dragon
4. Ruler of this world
5. Prince of Darkness
6. Devil
7. Satan
8. Father of the Lie
9. Murderer
10. Lucifer = prior to fall
11. Deceiver
12. Enemy
13. Covering Cherub = prior to fall
14. Accuser of God's servants
15. Son of Perdition
16. Wicked one
17. Tempter
18: Ruler of Demons

And others mentioned at the following website

List of Satan's Titles
http://www.markbeast.com/satan/names-of-satan.htm

However, not once is he referred to as an archangel.
A cherub? Yes. But cherubs are far below the archangel status.
In fact, even Seraphim which rank higher than cherubim are below that status.

 

[Tull]

Well now,we have gotten rid of sin,Hell....yep Satan's next,next thing ya know all that will be left is a god created in man's image and a "heaven" that everybody gets into.....gotta love these last days.

 

[Stillicidia]

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[Tull]

Ok, but where does it say we replace the worship angels, as the new worshipers? Like I stated.
Where does it say Michael used to be an archangel? Like I stated.
There is a thing, known as hitting people in the head with "the book" this is why I say have some discernment.

It's great that you want straight truth, but what of someone that speaks fair?
These are mistakes the jews have made.

You will have to explain what you mean by "speaking fair" there is and has been for a long time a movement to deny everything in the book(Bible) from hell to satan to sin and most of what describes mans responsibility and accountability to God,this will damn souls and it is with that sense of urgency that it needs to be confronted....Jesus quoted scripture to Satan,was he beating him up with the book ?

 

[Stillicidia]

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[Stillicidia]

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[Tull]

Do NOT throw away what I said about having discernment, do NOT neglect that, at the very least.

How am I not showing discernment ? by confronting that which denies what the bible clearly teaches,people seem to have the attitude these days that its up to God to appeal to them and that salvation is their idea and not his and being their creation(in their minds) the conditions should be theirs to decide....where or who does that come from ?

 

[Stillicidia]

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[Radrook]

Well now,we have gotten rid of sin,Hell....yep Satan's next,next thing ya know all that will be left is a god created in man's image and a "heaven" that everybody gets into.....gotta love these last days.

Everybody doesn't WANT to go to heaven.
God doesn't force people to go where they don't want to go or accept gifts that they find unacceptable.. Furthermore, the Bible doesn't teach that everyone goes to heaven or that everyone is saved. So whoever is suggesting that hasn't understood his Bible properly.

As for deep-frying people alive forever as punishment for exercising freedom of choice-if indeed that is who the creator really is then he is criminally insane and unworthy of being admired, loved, or worshipped.
What he would be worthy of would be to be dreaded, detested, avoided at all costs, and if at all possible, either confined or destroyed.